A good letter

[Pilgrim]

This was posted on another site, where a poster encountered a 'No Guns" sign on a store he frequented. This is the letter he wrote. It's a good one to keep on hand.



Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing to you regarding a sign I saw posted in your store this past Wednesday. The sign I am referring to is a “No Concealed Weapons” sign that was posted on the front door of Super Foods. Unfortunately, I will no longer patronize your establishment since you apparently do not want people like me in your store. This will be a minor inconvenience; Wal-Mart welcomes responsible citizens and I will be happy to spend my money there.

I am a young, married professional; middle-class; graduate school-educated; and hold a Nebraska Handgun Purchase Certificate, Nebraska Concealed Handgun Permit, and a Type 03 Federal Firearms License issued by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. As a holder of each of these documents, I have had several background checks performed and you can be sure that I am not a felon, a fugitive, convicted of a crime of domestic abuse, an abuser of controlled substances, subject to a restraining order, or a mental defective. How much do you know about your other customers? Would you ever post a sign that said “No Catholics” or “No Hispanics”? I doubt you would.

Self-defense is a fundamental human right and is supported by the United States Constitution and the Nebraska Constitution. Apparently your store feels citizens cannot be trusted to carry a firearm to protect their families while they go about their daily business. However, you apparently trust criminals to respect your sign. This is false logic; if a criminal has decided to rob your store or commit an act of violence on your premises, do you really think a “No Concealed Weapons” sign will stop them? By definition, criminals break laws and a sign like that serves as no deterrent to the acts they commit. It serves as notice to criminals that they are entering a “Gun-Free Victim Zone”.

I apologize if my letter comes off as sarcastic, flippant, or facetious as that is not my intent. However, I feel very strongly about my right to defend my family and I do not frequent businesses that do not support that right. I would be happy to resume my patronage of your establishment if and when the sign comes down. I would also be happy to discuss this matter with you further if you would like. I may be contacted at the above address, [email protected], or at 402-555-5555 after 5:30 p.m. Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

Respectfully yours,

 

[USMA-82]

Good letter to keep on file. I have to say, though, that I haven't seen too many "No Concealed Carry" signs in central MA. Sure, you see them at federal buildings, the post office, and police departments, but at commercial establishments? I can't believe I'd miss a sign with a bright red slash through a pistol, or something similar.

Can anyone name a specific store where they've seen these?

 

[Wolf99]

I have seen thses signs at The following Hoyts theaters Locations, Hyannis and Randolph.

 

[Ripach]

Great letter. A question I have however is what legal bearing if any to these signs hold? The way I see it unless Hoyts Theaters has metal detectors, the only way they will ever know I'm carrying is if I have to use my CCW to protect myself/others. I would hope if everything went well and life/property was successfully defended they would overlook that I chose to ignore their policy. If not, I guess they could ban me or something.

 

[drgrant]

I think Searstown (now whitney field) mall had "no weapons" or some
crap like that printed on the doors.

Not that it matters much in MA, anyways. The problem with carry
ban signs is that in the states that allow binding signage; they limit CCW'ers
ability to carry freely.


-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Signs are meaningless in MA! Nothing in our statutes give these signs any reason for concern.

I have seen them on a few malls and some theaters in particular. I neither go looking for them nor do I pay any attention to the signs.

 

[csharpdev]

Signs are meaningless in MA! Nothing in our statutes give these signs any reason for concern.

I have seen them on a few malls and some theaters in particular. I neither go looking for them nor do I pay any attention to the signs.

Wouldn't you be tresspassing, or do they have to ask you to leave first? Or is it binding signage that makes you a tresspasser for entering when I sign says you can't?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Since they "invite the public", you are NOT trespassing UNTIL they ask you to leave. At that point, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY! That would be the only time you could be charged with anything (if you refuse to leave immediately).

 

[JonJ]

Walk onto the PNPS property and see if you're asked to leave before the police are called and you're arrested.

Chp 266

§ 120. Trespass on Buildings, Boats, Improved or Enclosed Land, Wharves, after Being Forbidden; Arrest.

Whoever, without right enters or remains in or upon the dwelling house, buildings, boats or improved or enclosed land, wharf, or pier of another, or enters or remains in a school bus, as defined in section 1 of chapter 90, after having been forbidden so to do by the person who has lawful control of said premises, whether directly or by notice posted thereon, or in violation of a court order pursuant to section thirty–four B of chapter two hundred and eight or section three or four of chapter two hundred and nine A, shall be punished by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days or both such fine and imprisonment. Proof that a court has given notice of such a court order to the alleged offender shall be prima facie evidence that the notice requirement of this section has been met. A person who is found committing such trespass may be arrested by a sheriff, deputy sheriff, constable or police officer and kept in custody in a convenient place, not more than twenty–four hours, Sunday excepted, until a complaint can be made against him for the offence, and he be taken upon a warrant issued upon such complaint.
This section shall not apply to tenants or occupants of residential premises who, having rightfully entered said premises at the commencement of the tenancy or occupancy, remain therein after such tenancy or occupancy has been or is alleged to have been terminated. The owner or landlord of said premises may recover possession thereof only through appropriate civil proceedings.

 

[JYARNO]

What if they ask you leave and not come back again armed. You leave immediatly. You return the next day, another day, whatever, and once again they discover your armed and recognize you (of course this shouldn't happen if your properly concealed). Can they, at this point, call the police and have you arrested for Trespassing?

Lee

 

[Len-2A Training]

wrt Jon's post:

- I don't have time to research it right now, but that looks familiar and I'm guessing it is related to the Eviction Statutes. When I do an eviction I post a notice that essentially says that the party so evicted can be arrested for criminal trespass on sight if they are anywhere on the property.

I seriously doubt that this applies to shopping malls, businesses in the normal course of events. Otherwise a sign "no food or drink allowed" could justify an instantaneous criminal trespass arrest in a mall/store/theater, with no further verbal warning required.

Sorry, but I think you took this out of context wrt the subject at hand. [And I'll admit that I'm not 100% positive here but this just looks "too sweeping".]

For Lee:

Yes, once you are warned to leave and told NOT TO COME BACK, if you EVER come back there (armed or not), you are subject to immediate arrest for criminal trespass with no further warning required.

 

[RKG]

Walk onto the PNPS property and see if you're asked to leave before the police are called and you're arrested.

Chp 266

The question of being armed on PNPS is governed by federal law, not state law, so long as PNPS holds a Part 50 license.

 

[Len-2A Training]

PNPS??

My translation foo is currently on vacation!

 

[RKG]

I took it to mean Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station. (Shame on you, Len, particularly with the "Part 50" clue.)

 

[matt]

I took it to mean Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station.

oh yeah, I go there all the time...

 

[Len-2A Training]

I took it to mean Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station. (Shame on you, Len, particularly with the "Part 50" clue.)

RKG,

Sorry, I try hard to put the image of that place behind me, WAY BEHIND ME! In my years as a Nuke, I never heard of it called that.

Only was there once and it scared the crap out of me . . . and I wasn't the only one. One of their many plant managers was an old friend from high school days . . . at a HS Reunion he and I had a chat about the place and he confirmed that every safety issue (things that I saw with my own eyes in 1979 and what their own staff told me during that trip) that I raised about that particular plant was valid!! I can only hope that lots of things have changed for the better there, but it is no-place that I would ever want to be near.

When I worked at Yankee-Rowe, since it was in the middle of prime hunting territory, they did occasionally catch a lost hunter climbing over the fence. Once they determined that he was merely lost and intended no harm, they let him go with instructions how to get out of there and not to come back over the fence again. They didn't have them arrested.

 

[dwarven1]

Spotted this sitting in an empty cube at work. I have no idea why it was there.

 

[Emoto]

Heh. Yeah, I suppose it would be hard to make a case that a guy in a blaze orange hat and coat was trying to sneak in.

 

[Len-2A Training]

When I worked for DEC, if I was deeply into a project and did not want to be disturbed, I put up a "Police Line Do Not Cross" barrier tape across the opening of my cube, along with a "Trespassers Will Be Shot" sign!

It was as "meaningful" as the sign Ross found in an empty cube.

 

[zenprop]

I was under the impression, and told at my Basic Pistol class that the no firearms allowed sign is legally binding and must be followed.

 

[SiameseRat]

Spotted this sitting in an empty cube at work. I have no idea why it was there.

It's a GFC (Gun-Free Cubicle)

 

[Len-2A Training]

I was under the impression, and told at my Basic Pistol class that the no firearms allowed sign is legally binding and must be followed.

Ask the instructor to point it out in MGL. After all, if it is "the law" he should be able to find it in writing there!