About to buy an AR-15... help appreciated.

cronuss said:
Sorry if this is a bit long... I'm torturing myself over this right now.

This is a HUGE purchase/decision for me.

Been saving for a while, and finally feel like it is time to buy my AR-15. Prices and demand seem to be going up, I assume because of election/Obama fears, etc... so I don't want to wait any longer.

I've always loved the M4 Carbine. It has always been my favorite firearm in general, and is the whole reason that I originally wanted an AR-15.

I primarily intend to use the rifle for target shooting, and possibly for unlikely home defense scenarios (but I have a handgun, and plan to get a shotgun for that). However, I'd be lying if I didn't also intend to have this as a possible SHTF weapon, despite how silly the idea is or isn't.

I spent a lot of time researching various AR-15 models. For a while I was convinced I would go with a good bang for the buck $800ish one, like a Bushmaster, Stag, etc, and that Colt and the likes were out of my reach.

Then I started looking at the Colt 6920, and realized I could get one for around $1100. This is the gun I've always wanted. It is basically the M4 Carbine I love, made civilian. I began convincing myself that it would be worth the few hundred dollars over the Bushmasters, Sigs, Stags, etc.

Then I saw the M&P15 Sport. This thing looks awesome. At $650, this is easily the best bang for the buck AR-15 on the market, IMO. Honestly, the only missing feature I care about is the dust cover. That and of course they aren't stress tested as much, so I assume there is always that tiny increased chance of it failing.

I am at a serious standstill on this.

If I were simply in the market for my first AR-15 in general, then the M&P15 Sport seems like the perfect choice. It has everything I need, and isn't missing anything important. I could use the extra money for some accessories, ammo, or gun club fees. I know the M&P shoots great, is 99% reliable, and is a great deal.

But this is difficult, because the Colt is the gun I've always wanted. If it were between the Colt and a Bushmaster/etc, for a few hundred dollars, then I'd get the Colt. But now we are talking about almost DOUBLE the price. I could buy almost TWO of the M&P for the price of the Colt.

It is the fact that I've always loved that EXACT gun, the profile, look, etc, that is making this so hard for me. I also know that the Colt is the better SHTF weapon, and wonder in general if I would regret passing it up in 3-4 years from now.

One last note (sorry if this part sounds crazy), is that I began looking into the Magpul stuff. I was thinking if I got the M&P then I could get the stock/grips/sight/mags for it. I love the look of that brown or green stuff on the ARs. However, if I got the Colt I wouldn't be able to afford such accessories, and to be honest... I wouldn't want to touch it. As I said, the Colt M4 is the exact profile I fell in love with as a kid and still love it, so I would want to leave it in its original form. So that is one more angle to this.

In some ways, the only reason I really want the Colt is because it is the golden standard, prolific M4 that I always loved. The dust cover, FA, and slightly higher reliability don't really factor in here.

M&P15 Sport:
Pros: Shoots great, can accessorize it, save money, etc.
Cons: May always have that nagging thought that I could/should have got the Colt, and may not be reliable in dire situations.

Colt 6920:
Pros: The profile I've always wanted, reliability, and peace of mind.
Cons: Price, and lack of funds (and possibly willingness) to customize.


Someone help end my torture!!!
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Buy the Colt. Seriously. Look at the cost from a different perspective. The difference in cost is less than two cases of ammo. If you plan on doing some serious shooting like some classes and competition (as you say you want this for home defense + SHTF), you'll shoot 2000+ rounds easily in a year. Hell I had 5000 rounds downrange thru my AR the first year I had it... that was two classes and a couple matches, plus regular range time.

A one time payment of a few hundred extra to get a Colt over the M&P Sport is not that much of a deal when looking at the big picture.

Obviously, this is just my opinion. your mileage may vary.
 
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sevenMMmag said:
Buy the Colt. Seriously. Look at the cost from a different perspective. The difference in cost is less than two cases of ammo. If you plan on doing some serious shooting like some classes and competition (as you say you want this for home defense + SHTF), you'll shoot 2000+ rounds easily in a year. Hell I had 5000 rounds downrange thru my AR the first year I had it... that was two classes and a couple matches, plus regular range time.

A one time payment of a few hundred extra to get a Colt over the M&P Sport is not that much of a deal when looking at the big picture.

Obviously, this is just my opinion. your mileage may vary.
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Thanks for the opinion. Unfortunately, though, it isn't just a few hundred more. It is $650 versus $1200. That's almost twice the cost. :\

I'm actually starting to lean towards the M&P a bit because of that.. only problem now is that nobody seems to have them in stock.
 
cronuss said:
Thanks for the opinion. Unfortunately, though, it isn't just a few hundred more. It is $650 versus $1200. That's almost twice the cost. :\

I'm actually starting to lean towards the M&P a bit because of that.. only problem now is that nobody seems to have them in stock.
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that difference is still less than two cases of brass ammo
 
sevenMMmag said:
that difference is still less than two cases of brass ammo
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I understand, but the way I am seeing that is that if the gun costs twice as much, than that is even less money I will have for ammo.

My concern is that I only want the Colt because of the awesome factor. It is basically the military M4. But outside of it being as prolific as it is, I'm not sure what I am getting for twice the cost. A bit more reliability would be the key thing, I guess. I don't care about the FA or dust cover.

I'm starting to do some math and I'm thinking that $1200 won't leave me with any room for ammo, and certainly for accessories. :(

(I originally got hope for the Colt when I saw it was $900ish 6 months ago. Then I thought I could get it for just over $1000, but the cheapest I'm seeing now is around $1200)...
 
Just my $.02, having never owned or shot that particular Colt. I had a budget of about $1300 and could have opted for a Stag, higher-model S&W, etc., and I opted for the M&P Sport. Let's say 500 rounds of ammo runs you $200, you still have $350 which could outfit you with a pretty decent optic, sling, and a quad rail. If the Colt is *exactly* what you want, then get it, but if you're spending ALL of your budget on that, how will you feed it? $550 can carry you a good way to personalizing the admittedly basic M&P Sport platform.

Also, I second the folks who have said that the lack of forward assist and dust cover really won't matter to you ... I was concerned about these missing features at first, but in reading up on them, I realize that my situation doesn't require them. Also, the Sport barrel isn't chromed (as they are in most higher-level AR15's), but it is melonite-coated. S&W's reports seem to indicate similar if not better life from the melonite coating. (of course, it's self-serving for them to report this, so it depends on whether you trust the company or not).

Best of luck in your decision, and remember ... [pics] ... so we look forward to ogling whatever you pick up!
 
jbos6 said:
Just my $.02, having never owned or shot that particular Colt. I had a budget of about $1300 and could have opted for a Stag, higher-model S&W, etc., and I opted for the M&P Sport. Let's say 500 rounds of ammo runs you $200, you still have $350 which could outfit you with a pretty decent optic, sling, and a quad rail. If the Colt is *exactly* what you want, then get it, but if you're spending ALL of your budget on that, how will you feed it? $550 can carry you a good way to personalizing the admittedly basic M&P Sport platform.

Also, I second the folks who have said that the lack of forward assist and dust cover really won't matter to you ... I was concerned about these missing features at first, but in reading up on them, I realize that my situation doesn't require them. Also, the Sport barrel isn't chromed (as they are in most higher-level AR15's), but it is melonite-coated. S&W's reports seem to indicate similar if not better life from the melonite coating. (of course, it's self-serving for them to report this, so it depends on whether you trust the company or not).

Best of luck in your decision, and remember ... [pics] ... so we look forward to ogling whatever you pick up!
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Thanks.

The Colt is what I've always wanted just because the M4 has always been my favorite firearm, and I've always wanted one. The Colt is the closest thing to it (looks, feel, style, profile, etc). It is sort of the pinnacle of what I always envisioned I would one day own.

However, the only functional reason other than style/profile I can think to get the Colt is for reliability. But I'm not sure that is worth twice the cost.

@sevenMMmag:

I still love the Colt and ultimately think it is the better rifle. But I'm curious why you are so adamant about getting it at twice the cost of the M&P. What are you thoughts on why I should get it over the other?
 
I think you should just get the M&P, a nice optic, tons of ammo, and just shoot it a lot. S&W has a great warranty so if you have problems, it's no big deal. Colts are the gold standard for ARs, but I think, for your stated needs, the M&P is going to be just fine.


With that said, I owned a number of mid/lower tier ARs before I finally bought my "hold grail" AR - a noveske upper on a pre-ban lower, and really I could not be happier.

049-1-1.jpg
 
Mass-diver said:
I think you should just get the M&P, a nice optic, tons of ammo, and just shoot it a lot. S&W has a great warranty so if you have problems, it's no big deal. Colts are the gold standard for ARs, but I think, for your stated needs, the M&P is going to be just fine.


With that said, I owned a number of mid/lower tier ARs before I finally bought my "hold grail" AR - a noveske upper on a pre-ban lower, and really I could not be happier.

049-1-1.jpg
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I'm curious how you feel about now having the "holy grail" compared to the mid/lower ARs. What is it about the one you finally got that is so much better, and makes you happier than the others? Looking back, would it have been better to just get that in the first place? If you absolutely believe that in the end I'd be happier with the Colt (very possible), then it may be better for me to just get it. But I'm curious why some people feel so strongly about it. My reasons are admittedly shallow in that I like the bang-on M4 looks of the Colt mostly.
 
Nicole said:
Buy the gun you want. When money was very tight for me, I saved up and bought the guns I WANTED instead of settling. I have never regretted it. If you settle, every time you look at your AR, you will sigh a little inside and wish it was an M4gery. If you buy the one you want, you will smile every time you open the gun safe. [grin] In my book, the $500 is worth a lifetime of smiles.
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This, plus a billion. Settling for something generally sucks, and ends up costing you more money in the long run.

-Mike
 
cronuss said:
@sevenMMmag:

I still love the Colt and ultimately think it is the better rifle. But I'm curious why you are so adamant about getting it at twice the cost of the M&P. What are you thoughts on why I should get it over the other?
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because like you said, it is a better rifle. The M&P Sport is a good rifle, the Colt is better.

To me, the one time additional cost (that is less than 2 cases of ammo) of getting the Colt becomes less and less of a mitigating factor. Buy once, cry once. If you take 1 training class/year, shoot a few matches/year, and train regularly at the range, that one time additional cost of a Colt becomes a distant memory.

Obviously, if you aren't planning on doing this type of shooting, then get the Sport and reap the cost savings.
 
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cronuss said:
I'm curious how you feel about now having the "holy grail" compared to the mid/lower ARs. What is it about the one you finally got that is so much better, and makes you happier than the others? Looking back, would it have been better to just get that in the first place? If you absolutely believe that in the end I'd be happier with the Colt (very possible), then it may be better for me to just get it. But I'm curious why some people feel so strongly about it. My reasons are admittedly shallow in that I like the bang-on M4 looks of the Colt mostly.
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At the time I bought cheaper ARs (I have owned DPMS, Bushmaster, Delton, etc), I could not afford a Noveske - so it wasn't an option. I'm a gun guy - so I want "the best" but on a practical level I probably don't need a rifle this nice. Lots of us get obsessed with finding the "perfect" gun, when we would be better off just having fun shooting and not caring about if the internet likse our gun or not.

BTW, you could split the difference between the colt and the M&P and get a BCM - I've owned two of their rifles and they are just as good as anything on the market.
 
I have owned an Sp1 and an H Bar, took me forever to save up for these colts. Then one day @ the range a friend of mine brought his AK47, well, after blasting a whole bunch of water bottles and tin cans with the ak, good bye Colts. This was a good 30 years ago. Never looked back, I have a PolyTech Legend AK47 and a Russian Saiga AK74. The milsurp ammo is everywhere and half the price of 5.56/223. I have fired thousands of rounds through these guns over the years and they just don't jam or misfire. The AK74 fires a simalar round as the 5.56, fifles are light and all the preban mags are 30 and 40 rounders (same as the 47).

Just something else to think about, good luck on whatever you choose.
 
This is simple, if you buy the colt you will not wish " I bought the colt"layer on I have never heard any that owned a Colt say wish they bought anything else. It sounds like that's what you want so buy it they can be had for less than $1100 if you look good luck.
 
Delta Elite said:
This is simple, if you buy the colt you will not wish " I bought the colt"layer on I have never heard any that owned a Colt say wish they bought anything else. It sounds like that's what you want so buy it they can be had for less than $1100 if you look good luck.
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There it is. Get the Colt and don't look back.
 
HardJeepGuy said:
There it is. Get the Colt and don't look back.
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The OP is in NH right? But he wants to be able to bring it into MA. I say buy the Colt but please don't neuter it. So with that in mind you should get a S&W too, for MA.

Problem solved.

Don't worry about the money thing that will only bring you down. [grin][wink]
 
sevenMMmag said:
because like you said, it is a better rifle. The M&P Sport is a good rifle, the Colt is better.

To me, the one time additional cost (that is less than 2 cases of ammo) of getting the Colt becomes less and less of a mitigating factor. Buy once, cry once. If you take 1 training class/year, shoot a few matches/year, and train regularly at the range, that one time additional cost of a Colt becomes a distant memory.

Obviously, if you aren't planning on doing this type of shooting, then get the Sport and reap the cost savings.
Click to expand...

The Colt is the better rifle, but the main draw I have to it is for it's M4 profile. Also, while better, is it twice as good to justify twice the price?

I understand that the parts are tested more rigourously, and thus it is more reliable, but what else is better about it? Less recoil? More accurate? More resilient? Shoots wider range of ammo?

I wouldn't mind someone convincing me that my original plan of the Colt was correct, but just saying "its better" isn't gonna do it. :\


As for the shooting, I plan to shoot it pretty often, and possibly take a course, but I don't plan on doing any competitive shooting or training for such.
 
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pthomas65 said:
I have owned an Sp1 and an H Bar, took me forever to save up for these colts. Then one day @ the range a friend of mine brought his AK47, well, after blasting a whole bunch of water bottles and tin cans with the ak, good bye Colts. This was a good 30 years ago. Never looked back, I have a PolyTech Legend AK47 and a Russian Saiga AK74. The milsurp ammo is everywhere and half the price of 5.56/223. I have fired thousands of rounds through these guns over the years and they just don't jam or misfire. The AK74 fires a simalar round as the 5.56, fifles are light and all the preban mags are 30 and 40 rounders (same as the 47).

Just something else to think about, good luck on whatever you choose.
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Noooo! Don't say that! I already went over the AK vs AR thing in my head and thought I was past it!
 
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cronuss said:
The Colt is the better rifle, but the main draw I have to it is for it's M4 profile. Also, while better, is it twice as good to justify twice the price?

I understand that the parts are tested more rigourously, and thus it is more reliable, but what else is better about it? Less recoil? More accurate? More resilient? Shoots wider range of ammo?

I wouldn't mind someone convincing me that my original plan of the Colt was correct, but just saying "its better" isn't gonna do it. :\


As for the shooting, I plan to shoot it pretty often, and possibly take a course, but I don't plan on doing any competitive shooting or training for such.
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That's the third time I think you've mentioned that.

You do realize that many manufacturers make an exact M4-profile gun, right? It's another option.

Someone already suggested a middle-ground. BCM makes an M4 carbine visually indistinguishable from a 6920 rifle and every bit as "reliable" as Colt, shot-peened bolt, individually MPI'd, etc, for less money, so you could save some $$ there.

IMG_0394002_.jpg


BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Mod 4 Charging Handle
Standard Carbine Length Gas System
M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension
M4 Feed Ramp Flat Top Receiver
T-Marked Upper Receivers
USGI 5.56mm NATO Chambers
Independently Certified Mil-Spec 11595E Barrel Steel
Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber
Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish on entire barrel
Mil-Spec F-Marked Forged Front Sights
Taper Pinned Front Sight Base
USGI Government Profile Barrels
HPT (High Pressure Test, per Milspec) Barrels
MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected, per Milspec) Barrels
Bolt machined from Mil-Spec Carpenter No. 158® steel
HPT Bolt (High Pressure Tested/ Proof)
MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected)
Shot Peened Bolt
Chrome Lined Carrier (AUTO)
Chrome Lined Gas Key
Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications
Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners Key
Staked Per Mil-Spec
Tool Steel Extractor
BCM® Extractor Spring
Black Extractor Insert
Receivers Machined from Aluminum Forgings 7075-T6
Receivers Hardcoat Anodize per MIL-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2
BCM® Milspec 7075-T6 Receiver Extension
USGI Mold M4 Stock Staked M4 Lock Nut
USGI H Buffer (1 USGI Tungsten, 2 Steel)
Magpul MOE Enhanced Trigger Guard
Low Shelf for RDIAS installation
Low Shelf for Accuwedge use
Un-notched Hammer compatible with 9mm use
Fire Controls marked SAFE and SEMI
 
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cronuss said:
Yeah, but a lot of it seemed to talk about most non-Colt/BCM/LMT/etc rifles being poor because they don't have staking, etc, which doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. Also don't see anything about the Sport in there, which is a sort of unique build.


I will comb through it again.

I do appreciate all the comments, btw ;)
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Colt isn't the end all be all. There are more than a few AR manu's out there that put out a quality rifle.
 
Cool. Maybe I'll check out some of the other options. As I said, there is sort of a mystique with the Colt for me. I always wanted an M4 Carbine, and while others are "the same thing," the Colt is the actual thing.

That said, I played around with one in a shop last night, and I think I am beginning to move past the "I need an exact Colt M4!" to "I want a good AR-15 base that I can play with, add mods, etc."

In that regard, the M&P is still a great bargain. I suppose the only downside is that I'm not getting the shot peened bolt, tested parts, etc?

So I could spend about $200 more for that peace of mind/longevity, by getting a Spikes or such?

Perhaps I will also look into the build-your-own idea seriously for the first time. I never bothered because I read that you need specific tools and such, and worried that it would be over my head. Are there detailed, idiot-proof guides on this? I suppose if I got a quality upper, then [any?] lower, then I could even save some money by getting the magpul stuff in the first place instead of paying for a full rifle and replacing the stock/sight/mags/grips/etc.

EDIT: I'm seeing inconsistent information about M&P bolt being shot peened, MPI, etc. Some people are claiming they are.
 
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