AK47's - Who makes the best one and why?

MaduroBU said:
How do people feel about the Tavor in this discussion? I realize that aesthetically and in terms of manual of arms, it's nothing like an AK, but at it's core it's a Kalashnikov (or an AK/Valmet/Galil midget Frankenstein, depending upon one's biases). It seems like it checks all of the boxes for milled receiver, well built parts, and was developed by a major military power vs Backyard Bob the AK Smith or even a collection of smart guys. On that last point: a collection of smart guys will generally make a rifle that works better, but a major state will generally make a rifle that performs worse but deals with outlier conditions far better. I nearly always go for the former, but the ethos of an AK seems to be "will shoot minute of capitalist-pig-dog even if Sergei accidentally run over with T72....Sergei too much enjoy vodka".
Click to expand...

Rather like asking a scotch drinker if he'd prefer a white russian...
 
MaduroBU said:
How do people feel about the Tavor in this discussion? I realize that aesthetically and in terms of manual of arms, it's nothing like an AK, but at it's core it's a Kalashnikov (or an AK/Valmet/Galil midget Frankenstein, depending upon one's biases). It seems like it checks all of the boxes for milled receiver, well built parts, and was developed by a major military power vs Backyard Bob the AK Smith or even a collection of smart guys. On that last point: a collection of smart guys will generally make a rifle that works better, but a major state will generally make a rifle that performs worse but deals with outlier conditions far better. I nearly always go for the former, but the ethos of an AK seems to be "will shoot minute of capitalist-pig-dog even if Sergei accidentally run over with T72....Sergei too much enjoy vodka".
Click to expand...
I wouldn't include the Tavor.

Galil, Vektor R4, Valmets, yes. Even the Chinese Type 86S is an AK, and much more of an AK than a Tavor is.

On another note, this weekend I'll be dropping off a new Kalash project...
 
MaduroBU said:
How do people feel about the Tavor in this discussion? I realize that aesthetically and in terms of manual of arms, it's nothing like an AK, but at it's core it's a Kalashnikov (or an AK/Valmet/Galil midget Frankenstein, depending upon one's biases). It seems like it checks all of the boxes for milled receiver, well built parts, and was developed by a major military power vs Backyard Bob the AK Smith or even a collection of smart guys. On that last point: a collection of smart guys will generally make a rifle that works better, but a major state will generally make a rifle that performs worse but deals with outlier conditions far better. I nearly always go for the former, but the ethos of an AK seems to be "will shoot minute of capitalist-pig-dog even if Sergei accidentally run over with T72....Sergei too much enjoy vodka".
Click to expand...

A Tavor is not an AK. You're also greatly misinterpreting the design of the AK.

The AK was the product of a sweeping Soviet change in small arms after they saw and liked the 7.92x33 and .30 Carbine cartridges. First came the M43 7.62x41, then 7.62x39, cartridge. The Soviet plan was to develop a new sniper rifle, new battle rifle, and new submachine gun. The sniper rifle project got effectively shelved until twenty years later with the SVD. The SKS was the battle rifle, but that got subsumed by the submachine gun project, which resulted in the AK.

The committee in charge of developing the AK took the best ideas available at the time and worked with designers to refine the best fully-automatic carbine available in 1947. At the time, it was cutting edge. The US had nothing directly comparable until the AR-15/M16 in the late 50s and 60s. The M14 was uncontrollable in full-auto, so that doesn't count (the US pinned the selectors in many guns).

Forgotten Weapons and Mishaco have excellent videos regarding the development of the AK. The AK is a pragmatic, realistic, full-auto design, which the US couldn't compete with until Vietnam.
 
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Boghog1 said:
Is asking about AK platform shotguns allowed in here? seems to be a plethora of them available, now a days
Click to expand...

You'd probably get more responses (for better or worse) in a new thread.

My suggestion would be to either try and find a Vepr-12 or one of the new KUSA KS-12s. Rock Island Auction has a .410 Saiga coming up in their September auction, but people basically just use those as AK-74 clones that shoot shotshells. I've seen the Chinese AK clone shotguns and my thought is to just spend the money and get something that'll be better in every way.
 
Boghog1 said:
ok, so I can't post pictures must have reached my limit, let's say I had a Classic firearms AMD 63 like this

View: https://youtu.be/CuGm1r6APJk

would you keep the factory fore end or switch to a magpul, note with magpul you still don't have an upper guard
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I would stick with the original unless you had a specific aim you were trying to achieve by changing it.
 
Boghog1 said:
well couple of things, ease of swapping 30 rounders, I haven't been as successful as Mac and fear of burning the crap out of my hand
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It does get hot if you're mag dumping.

I don't have a 63 but I do have a 65. I kept the stock reversed grips. That's what it's meant for and looks the best IMHO.

30rd mags? Sheet, use what it was designed for. TANKAH mags kehd.

20rd Pmags fit my 65 and I had to file the shit out of Korean and Bulgarian ones.
 
Grendizer138 said:
Yes,
1) American made AKs
2) American made AKs
3) American made AKs
4) American made AKs
5) Century (except WASR)
Click to expand...

I have a combined 4000 rounds through a Riley defense and a century VSKA, approx 600 of which were run suppressed through the VSKA. Zero stoppages. bolt wear and head spacing look great on both rifles. I’m not a century fan but their VSKA appears decently built. same for Riley defense at least as of past 2-3 years.

some of the domestic AK hate is based on their poor history and the rest is AK snobbery. I have no emotional attachments to AK rifles; I just run them and watch how they wear over time. Suppressed fire nicely accelerates wear and tear. The VSKA is properly gassed and is solid suppressor host (at least for an AK).
 
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C. Stockwell said:
*Century except for WASRs
*Riley Defense
*PSA
*IO except for the FB Archers
*DPMS
Click to expand...

Grendizer138 said:
Yes,
1) American made AKs
2) American made AKs
3) American made AKs
4) American made AKs
5) Century (except WASR)
Click to expand...

So any of these parts kits from overseas will be serviceable enough to just plain work then, yes?
 
TrashcanDan said:
So any of these parts kits from overseas will be serviceable enough to just plain work then, yes?
Click to expand...

A parts kit built into a gun is only as good as the builder who put the gun together. Because of 922(r) and the fact that a parts kit usually doesn't come with a receiver, or these days barrel, there's also usually going to be US-made parts in the gun. So, a parts kit build might run 100% or 0%.

Imported rifles like the Zastava, WBP, FB Radom, Cugir, and Arsenal guns undergo a conversion process here in the US to get the guns out of "sporter" configuration. This involves opening up the mag well, adding 922(r) compliant furniture, sometimes 922(r) compliant fire controls, and threading or breaking the pin-and-weld on threaded muzzles. This used to have to be done by consumers in the US back when Saigas and Veprs were being imported. This process usually is something people don't have to worry about and makes the guns more friendly to us, US consumers.

Imported AK "pistols" are fully foreign guns that don't need to comply with 922(r) and are best shot with a brace or SBR'd.

The most common AKs in gun stores, at least in non-ban states, are US-made guns because of how wholesale gun distribution works. It's more likely to see a VSKA or Riley or DPMS or IO in a gun store because the imported guns only come in through exclusive importers who don't cater to the typical gun shop. Zastava guns are the most common imported guns in gun shops.

It all depends on what someone wants out of an AK. What interests me is history, reliability, and collectibility. So, I focus only on imported guns and I'm happy with that.
 
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C. Stockwell said:
A parts kit built into a gun is only as good as the builder who put the gun together. Because of 922(r) and the fact that a parts kit usually doesn't come with a receiver, or these days barrel, there's also usually going to be US-made parts in the gun. So, a parts kit build might run 100% or 0%.

Imported rifles like the Zastava, WBP, FB Radom, Cugir, and Arsenal guns undergo a conversion process here in the US to get the guns out of "sporter" configuration. This involves opening up the mag well, adding 922(r) compliant furniture, sometimes 922(r) compliant fire controls, and threading or breaking the pin-and-weld on threaded muzzles. This used to have to be done by consumers in the US back when Saigas and Veprs were being imported. This process usually is something people don't have to worry about and makes the guns more friendly to us, US consumers.

Imported AK "pistols" are fully foreign guns that don't need to comply with 922(r) and are best shot with a brace or SBR'd.

The most common AKs in gun stores, at least in non-ban states, are US-made guns because of how wholesale gun distribution works. It's more likely to see a VSKA or Riley or DPMS or IO in a gun store because the imported guns only come in through exclusive importers who don't cater to the typical gun shop. Zastava guns are the most common imported guns in gun shops.

It all depends on what someone wants out of an AK. What interests me is history, reliability, and collectibility. So, I focus only on imported guns and I'm happy with that.
Click to expand...

Was poking around on here, trying do a comparison between a parts kit vs outright.
Has to function, not be historically accurate or have any type of collectibility to it
 
TrashcanDan said:
Was poking around on here, trying do a comparison between a parts kit vs outright.
Has to function, not be historically accurate or have any type of collectibility to it
Click to expand...

Three questions:

(1) 7.62x39 or 5.56x45?
(2) Milled or stamped?
(3) Rifle or pistol?

Atlantic is the best place to buy an AK from these days, in my opinion, so they're a great place to look.
 

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