AR15 barrels

[mac1911]

Yep, im still a newb. Yep you can call me stupid.

But, the eay to learn is to ask questions.
I figured i should probably direct this more to AR15.com , but there is a wealth of info here too.

So, im in the purchasing phase of parts for a proper AR build.
I have the trigger, optics, upper and lower parts already.
The buffer system is chosen.
The stock is between a few.
The fore end/ handguard is between a few.

The bolt and carrier system is either going to be a lightweight version the dame as the buffer or a superlative arms piston setup

Now, when it comes to barrel

There are so many producers of them.
Are they similar to uppers and lowers where the vast majority are just cranked out at the same factory and just re branded by each seller?

Or do places like faxon,bcm,odin works,nemo,proof actually make their barrels from scratch?

Then i know the finishing is another conversation, which someone probably broke down on youtube very well.
I admit i havent dug into that really yet.

Currently at the moment, im eyeing nemo for my barrel.

Whats its use going to be?
Like most a range toy, but id like to branch out further eventually. But wish to focus on accuracy,speed and reliability.
My brain says a heavy barrel. I lnow that doesnt tie in with the speed mentality.

Sbr,carbine,rifle?
Its going to be a 14.5/16 inch. Im tinkering with the idea of longer

Thanks in advance

Your on the light weight train , stay on it!

 

[wcjkd]

I like

Rosco Manufacturing

Rosco Manufacturing is a manufacturer of high quality gun barrels for rifles and pistols carrying a wide variety of barrels for your custom gun build.

www.roscomanufacturing.com

 

[DW357]

Don't buy a heavy barrel unless you're building a match rifle or a true DMR with like a 3-18, 3-21, or 3-24 scope, and even then, I'd instead suggest a Proof carbon fiber barrel over a heavy steel barrel.

Companies that make high end barrels make barrels from scratch. So, yes, Proof, Krieger, Criterion, etc. all make their own barrels using their own special sauce. Lower end barrels are sort of interchangeable and not super distinguishable.

My suggestion would be a FN barrel because the barrels are cold hammer forged (better than button rifled) and FN is the current contractor for the M4. You're not looking for something particularly niche and a FN CHF barrel would be fine.

That’s what I got on my AR. Had steve at Northeast Arms in Peabody install it. Want to say it was just a hair over $300 installed. But this was 2 years ago.

 

[DW357]

Then we need to define accuracy,
Hitting a specific spot like a 1moa X on the bulls eye or anywhere on the silhouette.
I think this is the the split with ar "shooters"

And what is the OP using for ammo?? As mac has said before in other threads, doesn’t make sense to spend hundreds on a match grade barrel then feed it M193 or M855 and expect sub MOA accuracy.

 

[PappyM3]

At this point beggars cant be choosers.......

Current avail from most manufacturers is crap.....I know one quality manufacturer that has stock on hand but Criterian, BCM and most of the others are sold out and have been sold ou for many many months with no end in sight

At this point how many AR shooters can actually tell a difference between one BCM config and another.....

With that said its tough to go wrong with any of the middle of road BCM uppers for first time buyers.....the shit just works and thats what these people reallly need.....reliability

I mean, if you’re willing to wait a couple months, you can easily get the good quality barrel you want.

Unless you must buy a barrel right now, I just don’t see paying for a barrel that will have, at most, half the life expectancy and won’t provide any noticeable precision benefits over a nitrided barrel to the vast majority of people/ammo.

All that said, if someone is cool with a stainless barrel, I’m sure they BCM upper would serve them well.

 

[DarkJoker33]

Then we need to define accuracy,
Hitting a specific spot like a 1moa X on the bulls eye or anywhere on the silhouette.
I think this is the the split with ar "shooters"

This is a point i didnt address.
Mostly in part, because im a newb.
I think, and im probably wrong and this doesnt help any, but id like repeatable accuracy.
I know that probably 80% of that is my reaponsibilty.
10% barrel
5% comp
5% bolt,buffer and gas setup

As for distance and moa as an answer, i cannot provide yet.
Ive only shot at 100 yards so far due to limited area range.
Id like to go further.
Maybe spec it for 300-400 yards max.

Anything past that, id rather switch over to .308

And what is the OP using for ammo?? As mac has said before in other threads, doesn’t make sense to spend hundreds on a match grade barrel then feed it M193 or M855 and expect sub MOA accuracy.

Another point i didnt not touch upon.
With my current AR, i feed it everything under the sun except tula.
Primarily wolf steel and wolf gold.
With pmc and imi greek tip/hollow point(razor) for defensive rounds.

Being that i am dropping money on this build, i would likely steer away from steel case, but in a pinch, would still like the ability to use it if the need came about.

 

[hv55maxx]

i know parts are hit or miss, but i typically get the barrel so i know the gas tube length and THEN determine my BCG and buffer weights. spare parts are always good but id hate to have a setup waiting for a barrel in a spec i cant find.

 

[DW357]

This is a point i didnt address.
Mostly in part, because im a newb.
I think, and im probably wrong and this doesnt help any, but id like repeatable accuracy.
I know that probably 80% of that is my reaponsibilty.
10% barrel
5% comp
5% bolt,buffer and gas setup

As for distance and moa as an answer, i cannot provide yet.
Ive only shot at 100 yards so far due to limited area range.
Id like to go further.
Maybe spec it for 300-400 yards max.

Anything past that, id rather switch over to .308

Another point i didnt not touch upon.
With my current AR, i feed it everything under the sun except tula.
Primarily wolf steel and wolf gold.
With pmc and imi greek tip/hollow point(razor) for defensive rounds.

Being that i am dropping money on this build, i would likely steer away from steel case, but in a pinch, would still like the ability to use it if the need came about.

You can certainly feed it any ammo. Just don’t think that you’ll magically get sub MOA accuracy because of the barrel. Obviously twist rates play a role too.

 

[paul73]

Internally cries.
Both triarc and criterion are out of stock

i built several ARs from components back in 2001-2002, one was a failure, 2 others were great, then i sold them all as i moved to MA.
when i finally decided to get myself an AR again, here, i simply bought a LaRue ultimate upper and very happy with it - it is made extremely well and all parts match perfectly - the rail feels like a one solid piece, barrel, trigger, upper - all is solid.
it just saves a lot of time - if you do not care to learn how to build one and just want something that is guaranteed to work. combined with an aero precision m4e1 lower it is just amazing - no wobbles, perfect fit.

 

[paul73]

If Larue sold replacement HG's for their UU I would be less leary but they dont.....so say you want to get a longer or shorter or change from mlok to keymod for whatever reason.....you're screwed
Anyway....the UU is vaporware anyway right now as they are "sold out" until they catch up

https://www.larue.com/category/parts-accessories/handguards/handguards-ar15/

i understand what you say, but, it is not true to say they do not sell them at all - you can get a 10.5" one, but, only as a $399 combo...
interesting to see they are out of stock now, i did not know that. but, i got all i wanted, stealth and the predatAr, so, i have all i need now anyway. a last one i got literally in a 7 days turnaround which was extremely surprising.

 

[DarkJoker33]

So, why the general dislike for piston assemblies vs traditional gas?

I know theres a forever argurmemt about it, but from anything ive watched or seen, they both have there pros and cons.

To me the piston pros outweigh the cons

 

[PappyM3]

So, why the general dislike for piston assemblies vs traditional gas?

I know theres a forever argurmemt about it, but from anything ive watched or seen, they both have there pros and cons.

To me the piston pros outweigh the cons

There are lots of great piston guns, but if you want a piston gun, I would go for an upper that was designed from the ground up to be a piston system. PWS, Sig MCX, Brownells 180, HK 416, LWRC, etc..

Piston conversion kits are just adding additional variations from the way the system was designed, and increase complexity without major benefits.

 

[paul73]

There's nothing collectible about AR's...

it depends. it is a modular weapon system, so, you can build any weapon for a task you need solved.
a pencil light barrel for a light hunting rifle, a heavy 20"-24" barrel for a precision shooting - the collectible factor is really, well, depends upon the materials you have used.

 

[paul73]

to OP - that is a good summary page:

15 Best AR-15 Rifles in 2024 (with Pictures and Prices) - Gun News Daily

Do you use an AR-15 or plan to buy one? We reviewed the best AR-15 rifles used by civilians & military. See our top 10 best AR choices here.

gunnewsdaily.com

and to add about twist:

Best AR-15 Rifle Twist Rate: Does It Really Matter?

Will the wrong AR-15 rifle twist rate hinder accuracy? We put this common myth to the test so you know the best twist rate for your bullet weight.

www.pewpewtactical.com

 

[DarkJoker33]

There are lots of great piston guns, but if you want a piston gun, I would go for an upper that was designed from the ground up to be a piston system. PWS, Sig MCX, Brownells 180, HK 416, LWRC, etc..

Piston conversion kits are just adding additional variations from the way the system was designed, and increase complexity without major benefits.

What he said.....

I would add.....what problem is the OP looking to resolve in considering a piston upper outside of making a persons wallet a whole lot lighter

IMHO an AR is just a tool....much like your run of the mill glock.....they just generally work.......you can sub in some higher quality parts but thats not a redesign....and parts are readily avail......

There's nothing collectible about AR's....they're not gonna appreciate in value unless possibly you live in a commie state, leave it in the safe and never use it.....

The wallet isnt really changing much

Considering a bcg from a reputable company is in the $250+ area, the piston kit from superlative arms is the same cost maybe 50-75 more and comes with the bcg.

Theres only one downish side thats been pointed out from what ive seen and that the rod slop in the upper where the gas tube would normally go.

But someone/a company addressed it and is selling a brass insert that eliminates the slop


This is one of the main reasons im back and forth with it.
Never mind, that it comes with an adjustable gas block as part of the kit as well.

So the biggest diwnside is more moving parts and a smaller area to clean vs a larger area to clean. Piston housing vs upper.

And it runs cooler overall at the upper while heat stays at the barrel which is why my original condersideration was a heavy barrel.
I figured a heavy barrel would handle heat better and perform more consistantly with shots on target thatn that of a other size barrel

 

[PappyM3]

The wallet isnt really changing much

Considering a bcg from a reputable company is in the $250+ area, the piston kit from superlative arms is the same cost maybe 50-75 more and comes with the bcg.

Theres only one downish side thats been pointed out from what ive seen and that the rod slop in the upper where the gas tube would normally go.

But someone/a company addressed it and is selling a brass insert that eliminates the slop


This is one of the main reasons im back and forth with it.
Never mind, that it comes with an adjustable gas block as part of the kit as well.

So the biggest diwnside is more moving parts and a smaller area to clean vs a larger area to clean. Piston housing vs upper.

And it runs cooler overall at the upper while heat stays at the barrel which is why my original condersideration was a heavy barrel.
I figured a heavy barrel would handle heat better and perform more consistantly with shots on target thatn that of a other size barrel

Biggest downsides to piston uppers (which were originally piston) are front heavy and have a moving mass connected to the barrel which has a negative effect on accuracy. Yes, some piston guns are accurate, but the accuracy bell curve of DI guns will always be left shifted to smaller groups than piston. That may not be an issue for your needs. But it’s a factor with pistons.

The biggest benefit of pistons is less blowback if you run suppressed. The cleaning thing is overblown I think as you can just keep a DI AR lubed up and it’ll run for thousands of rounds without cleaning.

 

[DarkJoker33]

That BCM upper was $800 iirc

If you roll your own....

$120 for upper reciever
$ 15 for gas tube
$50-80 for gas block
$100 for muzzle device (avg)
$190 for BCG
$250-350 for barrel (looking at BCM prices)
$180-200 handguard

You're already well over the cost of the assembled upper and you havent even purchased tools to assemble it yet

Torque wrench will set you back 50-100
Barrel nut wrench is another 50-100...will most likely include muzzle device width wrench/flats
Upper reciever block is another 50-75

Shipping on all of the above....cuz no one vendor is going to have all in stock.....chuck in another 30-100

Its your money but lets not pretend that its going to cost less to gather parts and assemble yourself.

Already have the upper
Already have the tools
Handguard i could technically recycle, but im not going to.

Biggest downsides to piston uppers (which were originally piston) are front heavy and have a moving mass connected to the barrel which has a negative effect on accuracy. Yes, some piston guns are accurate, but the accuracy bell curve of DI guns will always be left shifted to smaller groups than piston. That may not be an issue for your needs. But it’s a factor with pistons.

The biggest benefit of pistons is less blowback if you run suppressed. The cleaning thing is overblown I think as you can just keep a DI AR lubed up and it’ll run for thousands of rounds without cleaning.

Retrofit Piston Kits - AR15 Platform

Id like to think the weight is neglagable as well as the moving mass.
I think we in the range on ounces at max a 1 lb

Im not trying to battle you by the way on it

Just flesh everything out

 

[Supermoto]

I have been very happy with my 14.5" Daniel Defense lightweight with midlength gas system.
The barrel has proven to be quite accurate and since it is light and short, it is very easy to transition.

 

[PappyM3]

Im not trying to battle you by the way on it

Just flesh everything out

No worries, I understand. I’m just sharing my perspective and reasoning. And you should make whatever decision works for you, using or not using whatever information is provided.

Also, if you’re concerned about overheating a barrel, or even it degrading in accuracy as it heats, look at the Colt SOCOM M4A1 barrel. It’s a 14.5” carbine length upper with a really beefy bull barrel section behind the gas block. Designed for handling full auto fire. It’s probably overkill for you, but it’s a fine barrel regardless.

 

[xtry51]

Given the additional information, get any $300ish barrel and you're good to go. If you're primarily going to feed it factory bulk ammo, you've already resigned yourself to 2MOA before you even add yourself to the equation.

Seriously any barrel from a known good source like BCM, Rainier, Daniel Defense, etc.

When you are ready to buy match ammo and/or reload, then buy a new quality upper with a match barrel.

 

[xtry51]

Then we need to define accuracy,
Hitting a specific spot like a 1moa X on the bulls eye or anywhere on the silhouette.
I think this is the the split with ar "shooters"

Sorry. I would define an accurate gun as sub moa benched groups.

For the OP I think it may help if he made some friends and shot a known sub moa gun to see what he can actually do with a quality rifle. If he can shoot a group under 2" with a known MOA gun, it might be worth him going to a nicer barrel. If he can't, his money is likely better spent on ammo, practice and training for now IMO.

 

[DarkJoker33]

lol

You have a jig to index the gas block?

You check the avail of other parts in current market?

There's a reason why I suggested buying a complete upper

Ok. Fair point. I bought that real avid master kit and thought i had most if not everything needed.

But for around $50 for a jig, im not worried about that

 

[Supermoto]

I've never used a jig for a gas block.

 

[DarkJoker33]

I've never used a jig for a gas block.

Never heard of it before now

 

[mac1911]

At this point beggars cant be choosers.......

Current avail from most manufacturers is crap.....I know one quality manufacturer that has stock on hand but Criterian, BCM and most of the others are sold out and have been sold ou for many many months with no end in sight

At this point how many AR shooters can actually tell a difference between one BCM config and another.....

With that said its tough to go wrong with any of the middle of road BCM uppers for first time buyers.....the shit just works and thats what these people reallly need.....reliability

Depends on how picky you are , and how many pages back you go on google search, a quick look at some less known vendors. I found a good amount of 16" and 2 0" wilson and YHM barrels in a few good flavors

 

[mac1911]

Sorry. I would define an accurate gun as sub moa benched groups.

For the OP I think it may help if he made some friends and shot a known sub moa gun to see what he can actually do with a quality rifle. If he can shoot a group under 2" with a known MOA gun, it might be worth him going to a nicer barrel. If he can't, his money is likely better spent on ammo, practice and training for now IMO.

you said that much better than I could have.
Defining accuracy was a general statement put out to all . Not so much asking you directly.
Example : met my friend at range yesterday and after getting him on paper he was bitching about how the rifle is not accurate......as he picked random loose 223/556 from a loose bag. He had had everything from wolf,rem,win,fed,and a slew of random M193/855
Asked where he got it.... "My dads trunk"
His dad used to shoot NRA service rifle and I can only imagine how old some of that shit could be.

 

[xtry51]

you said that much better than I could have.
Defining accuracy was a general statement put out to all . Not so much asking you directly.
Example : met my friend at range yesterday and after getting him on paper he was bitching about how the rifle is not accurate......as he picked random loose 223/556 from a loose bag. He had had everything from wolf,rem,win,fed,and a slew of random M193/855
Asked where he got it.... "My dads trunk"
His dad used to shoot NRA service rifle and I can only imagine how old some of that shit could be.

Mixed ammo is hilarious to watch people shoot. I've seen 1/2 moa 16" ARs shift POI 4 inches at 50yds between diff rounds. If you hit a harmonic in a barrel, it's a crap shoot.

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

That BCM upper was $800 iirc

If you roll your own....

$120 for upper reciever
$ 15 for gas tube
$50-80 for gas block
$100 for muzzle device (avg)
$190 for BCG
$250-350 for barrel (looking at BCM prices)
$180-200 handguard

You're already well over the cost of the assembled upper and you havent even purchased tools to assemble it yet

Torque wrench will set you back 50-100
Barrel nut wrench is another 50-100...will most likely include muzzle device width wrench/flats
Upper reciever block is another 50-75

Shipping on all of the above....cuz no one vendor is going to have all in stock.....chuck in another 30-100

Its your money but lets not pretend that its going to cost less to gather parts and assemble yourself.

Unless you spread those costs over 8-10 guns…

 

[mac1911]

This is a point i didnt address.
Mostly in part, because im a newb.
I think, and im probably wrong and this doesnt help any, but id like repeatable accuracy.
I know that probably 80% of that is my reaponsibilty.
10% barrel
5% comp
5% bolt,buffer and gas setup

As for distance and moa as an answer, i cannot provide yet.
Ive only shot at 100 yards so far due to limited area range.
Id like to go further.
Maybe spec it for 300-400 yards max.

Anything past that, id rather switch over to .308

Another point i didnt not touch upon.
With my current AR, i feed it everything under the sun except tula.
Primarily wolf steel and wolf gold.
With pmc and imi greek tip/hollow point(razor) for defensive rounds.

Being that i am dropping money on this build, i would likely steer away from steel case, but in a pinch, would still like the ability to use it if the need came about.

So with your current AR and wolf gold what type of groups are you getting?
Wolf gold is great for the price and the brass is darn good for the money- well at least the Tawain made stuff. It will get close to MOA.
To be honest since i stopped shooting regularly im a 3moa shooter with irons on better days.
Holding the black of a SR target is my goal these days!

 

[mac1911]

Mixed ammo is hilarious to watch people shoot. I've seen 1/2 moa 16" ARs shift POI 4 inches at 50yds between diff rounds. If you hit a harmonic in a barrel, it's a crap shoot.

i like watching people dial in their optics with random ammo