AR15's - Who makes the best ones and why?

Cuz said:
You guys are throwing around more acronyms than the Federal Government. If you are going to use an acronym please tell us what it stands for. This thread is great, but those of us who aren't already experts with regard to AR-15's don't know what most of the acronyms stand for.

Just sayin...
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If you would be so kind as to list the ones you don't understand, we can tell you what they stand for.
 
Well, to begin with:
Post #2, LWRC, SPR, BCM.
Post #4, mrp.
Post #6, BCM, JP, MP.
Post #17, Olys.
Post #20, Answered a couple, but added SGW, FSB, HP, MPI, GK, VLTR, VLTOR.
Post #32, BCG.
Post #65, PWA, CLE, MGI, JVP, LRB.

You get the point. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it appears that this thread was started to be educational to those of us looking to learn more. I certainly appreciate all the knowledge being shared about AR15's, but it's hard to grasp if I don't know what your talking about because of all the acronyms. I'm sure they are very common to you all such that it would never occur to you that someone wouldn't know what they mean.

Well, I don't know what they mean, so I'm asking.

Thanks,
-Cuz.
 
Most of these acronyms are spelled out in the posts you saw them in, and most of them are the names or initials of a brand or manufacturer. But here is a list of what I can come up with.

BCM Bravo Company Mfg
LWRC idk it is a name of a manufacturer
SPR Special Purpose Rifle, often a MK12 style rifle with a 18" barrel
MRP Monolithic Rail Platform is a style of upper made by LMT, or Lewis Machine and Tool
JP Enterprises, Name of a manufacturer
Olys I think is Olympic Arms
BCG Bolt Carrier Group
MP/MPI is a type of metal testing Magnetic Particulate Inspection?
SGW a manufacturer?
FSB front sight base
HP I am assuming means high pressure
GK gas key
VLTOR is a company, and I assume VLTR is VLTOR with out the o
Everything you listed from post 65 is a company's initials.
 
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Thanks, I appreciate it. Sometimes when people get talking about a subject they know well they tend to spit out acronyms they assume everyone understands. I'm sure I'm guilty of it as well more often than not.

-Cuz.
 
edmorseiii said:
Soo, aahhh, to good to be true?

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2557.php
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Just got that email. The specs look good. However, I question how good the rifle is seeing that the optic is $410 from them. I have purchased product from them. The stuff I bought from them is not bad, just need to put more rounds down the pipe to say it quality. YMMV
 
flintoid said:
Chinaimpoints are cheap.
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It says it's an Aimpoint (not a knockoff) and it shows a real Aimpoint in the pic. Those aren't cheap and I'll assume they're telling the truth.

It sounds like a smokin' deal. Edmorseiii, you'd have to see if they'll make it MA compliant.

My biggest complaint with that rifle is the carbine length gas system. I'd rather have mid length.
 
thehoyt said:
Just got that email. The specs look good. However, I question how good the rifle is seeing that the optic is $410 from them. I have purchased product from them. The stuff I bought from them is not bad, just need to put more rounds down the pipe to say it quality. YMMV
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The list of specs look like they are right for a quality carbine, but only hard use would tell the truth.

PaulD said:
It says it's an Aimpoint (not a knockoff) and it shows a real Aimpoint in the pic. Those aren't cheap and I'll assume they're telling the truth.

It sounds like a smokin' deal. Edmorseiii, you'd have to see if they'll make it MA compliant.

My biggest complaint with that rifle is the carbine length gas system. I'd rather have mid length.
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Yeah, it's one of those things, I seem to stumble across good deals when I am not in the market. If I didn't already have a carbine set up, I would probably jump on this and have it mass-ified by a shop that can do the transfer.

I agree, I would rather a midlength system, but money talks. [smile]
 
PaulD said:
It says it's an Aimpoint (not a knockoff) and it shows a real Aimpoint in the pic. Those aren't cheap and I'll assume they're telling the truth.

It sounds like a smokin' deal. Edmorseiii, you'd have to see if they'll make it MA compliant.

My biggest complaint with that rifle is the carbine length gas system. I'd rather have mid length.
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That page looks like it was run through google translator... [thinking]
 
edmorseiii said:
The list of specs look like they are right for a quality carbine, but only hard use would tell the truth.
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Reviews of this company, over on the two AR big name sites, are not the best, but certainly above average. I believe they refused to ship lowers or rifles to MA, but your mileage may vary.
 
TheRoland said:
Reviews of this company, over on the two AR big name sites, are not the best, but certainly above average. I believe they refused to ship lowers or rifles to MA, but your mileage may vary.
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There are people that live in other states that post and read here.
 
edmorseiii said:
There are people that live in other states that post and read here.
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Indeed. Also, it's perfectly legal for a MA resident to have a lower shipped to an out of state FFL and pick it up in person.

As for Palmetto, the only thing I've bought from them was an LPK (lower parts kit) because they sell with with a Giesselle trigger.
 
havent heard too many bad things about PSA other than some cosmetic stuff. great prices for sure.that rifle deal looks legit and maybe they would build a ma version for you. i dont understand why we cant order rifles and have them delivered to a local smith to massify before the transfer. i ordered a complete compliant spikes middy and couldnt be happier w/ it but the wait time was months. knowing more know i realize i couldve built close to the same thing a little shorter money. you could probably do the same w/ a version of this rifle. i have seen stripped psa lowers for $59 shipped online. cos blem spikes lowers on sale right now at aim for $69 shipped. can toss a standard complete upper on there and be into a complete ar for reasonable price.
 
Do you guys know if there are gun shops in MA that stock some of the Tier 1 rifles? Or do they have to be ordered?

I called Four Seasons today and they said they had a Lewis Machine & Tool Defender but they sold it an hour before I called.

Thanks,
-Cuz
 
Cuz said:
Do you guys know if there are gun shops in MA that stock some of the Tier 1 rifles? Or do they have to be ordered?
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Some may, but with due respect to them, ordering is usually better, as "because it's in stock" is a bad reason to choose a particular model.
 
Cuz said:
Do you guys know if there are gun shops in MA that stock some of the Tier 1 rifles? Or do they have to be ordered?

I called Four Seasons today and they said they had a Lewis Machine & Tool Defender but they sold it an hour before I called.

Thanks,
-Cuz
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I've never dealt with Bob's but according to their website they have a used Defender in stock. http://bobsga.com/

I have an LMT Defender myself. Can't go wrong with LMT. [grin]
 
I am wondering why people discount Delton and PSA and say go with Spikes BCM etc... I can tell you why a snap on wrench is better than a craftman wrench but when compared to Mac or Matco the lines blur. but when I see two tools manufactured to the same design using what appears to be same raw materials what makes one better that the other? I mean if the barrel and bolt are high quality does it really make a difference that the finish of the front sight isn't as smooth with one vs the other? please don't take this as confrontational I have been trying to learn these before blowing my money. it comes down to what makes buying a lexus better than buying a toyota, a porsche over a VW etc...
 
Its not necessarily the finish work on the parts, but instead its "who" makes the parts and to what specification that defines the big boys from the babies.

Many of these parts can be made by any old machine shop. But machining a forged part within tight tolerances in a process that is statistically repeatable for mass production and qualified under strict quality control requirements is expensive. There are methods to accomplish that madness that are engineering beauty.

That's where contract mfgers differentiate from consumer ones.
 
Boghog1 said:
I am wondering why people discount Delton and PSA and say go with Spikes BCM etc... I can tell you why a snap on wrench is better than a craftman wrench but when compared to Mac or Matco the lines blur. but when I see two tools manufactured to the same design using what appears to be same raw materials what makes one better that the other? I mean if the barrel and bolt are high quality does it really make a difference that the finish of the front sight isn't as smooth with one vs the other? please don't take this as confrontational I have been trying to learn these before blowing my money. it comes down to what makes buying a lexus better than buying a toyota, a porsche over a VW etc...
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Personally I'm just hoping to get sponsored [laugh]

Not really. It comes down to consistent QC and a company that stands behind their products. I know for a fact that spikes makes a damn good product with a damn good warranty. At a damn good price.

Not to mention, I didn't even know PSA made ARs.

It all comes down to buy quality, cry once.
 
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Boghog1 said:
I am wondering why people discount Delton and PSA and say go with Spikes BCM etc...
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Quality control is one reason (and a big one at that). I have owned a delton, a DPMS, a BM, a couple BCMs, and my current noveske. I'm not saying that everyone needs a top shelf AR, in fact, especially if you are just plinking it's a waste of money, however there is a very real difference.
 
so which manufactures that sell kits sell a quality kit? I can piece meal from Larue and Noveske but I will be spending a small fortune and I could spend money on a Red Jacket Katana and from what I hear be wasting money, If there is a piece meal recipie out there let me know, you know get the barrel from green mountain, the bolt from BCM etc...
 
Boghog1 said:
so which manufactures that sell kits sell a quality kit? I can piece meal from Larue and Noveske but I will be spending a small fortune and I could spend money on a Red Jacket Katana and from what I hear be wasting money, If there is a piece meal recipie out there let me know, you know get the barrel from green mountain, the bolt from BCM etc...
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You could get everything from BCM if you want, or Rainier Arms (who I bought from and were excellent). What kind of AR do you want? State that and I'm sure people will offer up recommendations on parts.
 
well I was looking into a 16" barrel, I was going to go with a mid length because of a slightly longer sight radius. twist 1:9 or 1:7 as that seems to be most common. mil-spec buffer tube, MOE furniture. would expect to be using XM193 ammo mostly, it would be a yote hunter, maybe deer if 68gr soft points fly nice. home defense and SHTF gun, lower is a ZA from American weapon systems. I currently have a single stage trigger in it.

What it will not be used for is serious competition or log range. IMHO the AR is a 300 meter weapon. I know that accuracy wise it is more than capable to reach out to 600yds but I can't see that being anything other than target shooting and in the northeast there are not a lot of areas that I can shoot 600+ yards.

I am looking to fill the hole in my 5 guns I think each person should own
1. Military Rifle/Carbine in 5.56/5.45/7.62x39
2. Precision bolt action in .308/7.62x51
3. Semi auto handgun in self defense caliber 9mm/.40/10mm/.45
4. Shotgun pump or semi with selection of barrels/chokes
5. Ma Deuce (it will take a while to fill that hole)
 
Boghog1 said:
well I was looking into a 16" barrel, I was going to go with a mid length because of a slightly longer sight radius. twist 1:9 or 1:7 as that seems to be most common. mil-spec buffer tube, MOE furniture. would expect to be using XM193 ammo mostly, it would be a yote hunter, maybe deer if 68gr soft points fly nice. home defense and SHTF gun, lower is a ZA from American weapon systems. I currently have a single stage trigger in it.

What it will not be used for is serious competition or log range. IMHO the AR is a 300 meter weapon. I know that accuracy wise it is more than capable to reach out to 600yds but I can't see that being anything other than target shooting and in the northeast there are not a lot of areas that I can shoot 600+ yards.

I am looking to fill the hole in my 5 guns I think each person should own
1. Military Rifle/Carbine in 5.56/5.45/7.62x39
2. Precision bolt action in .308/7.62x51
3. Semi auto handgun in self defense caliber 9mm/.40/10mm/.45
4. Shotgun pump or semi with selection of barrels/chokes
5. Ma Deuce (it will take a while to fill that hole)
Click to expand...

From what you describe, an 18" barrel would work also. If you want a 16" though, Supermoto's suggestion is good but you could look at this also (probably made by White Oak): http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2267

Both barrels have Wylde chambers (good for .223 and 5.56) and are made from Wilson blanks.
I think you're right to go for mid length but more because longer gas systems in ARs seem to be generally more reliable and nicer to shoot.
 

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