Armed Patrol Groups

[Blitz1]

Still missing the point. ^

 

[Blitz1]

The point is that the people need to take their own safety into their own hands at times.

 

[AntiHippie]

I would say that point is most decidedly not lost out here. Isn't that why this topic came up (again, I might add - this is recycled news from at least 6-12 months ago)? I'm in full agreement with you there - as are, it would seem, many in Curry and Josephine Counties.

The fact remains, though, the Sheriff's Departments provide services that we really shouldn't be going without, and there's no money left anywhere in the southern counties to fund it. Except this road fund thing. I'm trying to find out more, but I can't get the local news site to open (currypilot.com has plenty on this subject).

 

[Boris]

humanity got along just fine without a standing police force, especially in rural areas and sparsely populated territories. The real problem is that laws used to be much simpler then. The difference is not "law of the jungle" vs "civilized society", it's the same thing, just attaching different labels to actors in each scenario.

 

[AntiHippie]

The point is that the people need to take their own safety into their own hands at times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-oregon-citizens-against-crime_n_1975029.html

Such as this?

(CAC Patrol - heheheh.)

 

[AntiHippie]

humanity got along just fine without a standing police force, especially in rural areas and sparsely populated territories. The real problem is that laws used to be much simpler then. The difference is not "law of the jungle" vs "civilized society", it's the same thing, just attaching different labels to actors in each scenario.

Another problem is methed out tweakers that think absolutely nothing of beating the shit out of elderly people for the change in their pocket. Can we really expect them to defend themselves?

Also, keep in mind that Sheriffs Departments do a lot more than just run the jails out here. All 'dry land' SAR is run by them - even upriver is all Sheriffs Departments. USCG doesn't (can't due to water depth) handle much above the 101 bridges. Parole and probation - not run by the courts run by the Sheriffs. Firearms licensing, even though we can all agree it shouldn't exist, it does, and it's run by Sheriffs. Volunteers there, actually, since that hasn't been funded for a while and they believe in the Constitution out here.


In principle, I agree with you. Seeing the reality with my own eyes makes me feel a bit differently about it, though.

 

[Blitz1]

humanity got along just fine without a standing police force, especially in rural areas and sparsely populated territories. The real problem is that laws used to be much simpler then. The difference is not "law of the jungle" vs "civilized society", it's the same thing, just attaching different labels to actors in each scenario.

Yup

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-oregon-citizens-against-crime_n_1975029.html

Such as this?

(CAC Patrol - heheheh.)

I don't click on huffpost threads.

 

[Boris]

that's why I mentioned simpler laws. Right or wrong, a lot of troublemakers took leave of the gene pool fairly early, in the earlier days. This doesn't mean that injustice never happened, it just went along with power, just like it does today but in a different way. Having the burden of enforcing modern, more gentle laws takes a lot of resources, the resources that these people don't have. Many moonbats in the comments section bitch about "vigilantiism" but they don't want to fund their rosy dreams with their cash.

I don't know much about "wild" territories, aside from Slavs and some border land history. Religion played a big role there as the moral compass too, but it also created problems of different kind where the compass would go haywire.

 

[Blitz1]

So they released a bunch of prisoners and basically said "you're on your own."
It's extortion.

I would take means to defend my family and myself and anybody else that needed it.

 

[AntiHippie]

So they released a bunch of prisoners and basically said "you're on your own."
It's extortion.

I would take means to defend my family and myself and anybody else that needed it.

Which is just what many people are doing.

(And the HuffPo link isn't that bad. Nothing outrageous. First thing that came up when I Googled 'O'Brien, Oregon'.)

 

[LTCRN]

Where is the State Police? I'm sure members of the county pay state taxes. I know in my town, a few years ago, they were almost called in to cover the 12 - 8 AM shift because of budget woes but with some "creative" financial moves it never materialized.

 

[drgrant]

Where is the State Police?

Not sure about Oregon, but I'd bet that a lot of states don't have the "Waffen SS unlimited jurisdiction" type setup like we have in MA with MSP. Most "state patrols" or "highway patrols" are relegated to major highways and that sort of thing. They have intrinsically limited LE powers outside of that realm, by law.

-Mike

 

[Hiltonizer]

Where is the State Police? I'm sure members of the county pay state taxes. I know in my town, a few years ago, they were almost called in to cover the 12 - 8 AM shift because of budget woes but with some "creative" financial moves it never materialized.

Who cares where the Staties are? Taxes shouldn't be looked at as services owed, rather than money stolen at gun point. If you want the police to show up, simply quite paying the taxes and I guarantee they'll be there in no short order.

I love how governments are falling one budget at a time.

 

[DMan7]

This armed patrol thing should not have been the first thing the ex-cop did. All he did was recreate a police force, if you want to call it that.

He instead should have encouraged citizens to become more vigilant, to start looking out for themselves and for each other (as citizens, not as part of a group), to arm themselves, get a guard dog, etc. Self Reliance.

This is not a tragedy. Its an unfortunate yet unique opportunity to go back to zero and test if that Sherriff Department is still needed and in what form. And people *should* relocate if they don't want to be in charge of their own safety. If this budget crunch continues, County politicians growing fear will be that if/when money becomes available again, will the citizens opt to spend it on Police? Time will tell.

Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk 2

 

[fubar]

" ... despite the risks, the move stands as a unique, some would say innovative, response. "

I don't know why no one ever thought of this unique innovative approach before; taking care of themselves without .gov oversight ? .... But. But. Only .gov agents need guns and stuff...

 

[Boris]

it's funny that Anarchists from the dawn of the Soviet era didn't believe in prisons, so for a lot of bigger non-property type offensive they just shot people. It sounds harsh, but sooner or later people get the point. Of course that would not fly in US.

In terms of logging and jobs, no one is entitled to them. 70% of land is owned by .gov there, but in case of private property it's not much different. When jobs go away, people tend to move too. No one is entitled to stay in one place and demand that jobs are brought to them. I understand hippies go wild about spotty turd owls, but there is a reason why land in these lands are cheaper than it is in metro Boston, there is little income to support you.

People should look up history of the police as we know it today. A lot of it is very recent. Even going back to 19th century, you'd see that "police" was not only the arm to enforce criminal offenses but also monitor political views and hold the regime together, i.e. purely political crap. Not much different is today, if anything, "police" and related agencies are more involved in not so much street crime as they are in spying on own citizens, id dissenting views etc.

 

[76Too]

If you're not a soldier, you're a citizen.

what is you're a Marine?

 

[ixia]

what is you're a Marine?

don't worry, even people with disabilities are considered citizens

 

[BattleSnail]

Soldiers are citizens.

methinks people aren't sure of the difference between the words citizen and civilian in this thread.

 

[BattleSnail]

I'd prefer armed neighbors over JBTs any day. I think this is great.

 

[goodlife30]

Soldiers are citizens.

Not all soldiers are citizens. Some people come in to speed up the process of becoming a citizen

 

[Twigg]

The point is that the people need to take their own safety into their own hands at times.

And here's why:

Police have no legal duty to respond and prevent crime or protect the victim. There have BEEN OVER 10 various supreme and state court cases the individual has never won. Notably, the Supreme Court STATED about the responsibility of police for the security of your family and loved ones is "You, and only you, are responsible for your security and the security of your family and loved ones. That was the essence of a U.S. Supreme Court decision in the early 1980's when they ruled that the police do not have a duty to protect you as an individual, but to protect society as a whole."

"It is well-settled fact of American law that the police have no legal duty to protect any individual citizen from crime, even if the citizen has received death threats and the police have negligently failed to provide protection."


Sources:

7/15/05 SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES No. 04-278 TOWN OF CASTLE ROCK, COLORADO, PETITIONER v. JESSICA GONZALES, INDIVIDUALLY AND AS NEXT BEST FRIEND OF HER DECEASED MINOR CHILDREN, REBECCA GONZALES, KATHERYN GONZALES, AND LESLIE GONZALES
On June 27, in the case of Castle Rock v. Gonzales, the Supreme Court found that Jessica Gonzales did not have a constitutional right to individual police protection even in the presence of a restraining order. Mrs. Gonzales' husband with a track record of violence, stabbing Mrs. Gonzales to death, Mrs. Gonzales' family could not get the Supreme Court to change their unanimous decision for one's individual protection. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN FOLKS AND GOVERNMENT BODIES ARE REFUSING TO PASS THE Safety Ordinance.

(1) Richard W. Stevens. 1999. Dial 911 and Die. Hartford, Wisconsin: Mazel Freedom Press.

(2) Barillari v. City of Milwaukee, 533 N.W.2d 759 (Wis. 1995).

(3) Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982).

(4) DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, 489 U.S. 189 (1989).

(5) Ford v. Town of Grafton, 693 N.E.2d 1047 (Mass. App. 1998).


(6) Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. 1981).
"...a government and its agencies are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981)

(7) "What makes the City's position particularly difficult to understand is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of NY which now denies all responsibility to her."
Riss v. New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579,293 N.Y.S.2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 806 (1958).

(8) "Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)

New York Times, Washington DC
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone By LINDA GREENHOUSE Published: June 28, 2005
The ruling applies even for a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

Source and additional commentary here.

Blitz1 nailed it.

 

[dwarven1]

This is interesting.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ed-ore-county-guts-sheriff/?intcmp=latestnews

Discuss...

Ken Selig -- who was the longest-serving law enforcement officer in all three local agencies when he was forced to retire from the department due to cuts -- told FoxNews.com he found the sheriff’s declaration unacceptable. And he felt compelled to guard his community’s vulnerable members.

Well, since the guy who started the group is a former LEO, I don't see the issue here - it's not like it's someone who doesn't have any experience with the law is running around there. Since he's local, he's got an interest in keeping the area safe... and since he's former LEO, he knows (one would assume) what procedures he can and should pass along to his neighbors. (hopefully, no-knock warrants are NOT one of the ones he's teaching... )

"Citizens with benefits" (and early retirement!) (and MRAPS) (and exemptions from most laws)

The thing that bugs me about that phrase is how similar it is to "friends with benefits"... and when you're friends with benefits, you KNOW that someone is getting screwed.

And right now it isn't there because the .gov was more concerned with a couple hippies shedding tears for the rare double breasted dork dangler's seasonal habitat than the livelihood of humans and their communities that supported a renewable resource industry. It's sad.

Where is the State Police? I'm sure members of the county pay state taxes. I know in my town, a few years ago, they were almost called in to cover the 12 - 8 AM shift because of budget woes but with some "creative" financial moves it never materialized.

Where I live in VT is such a small town that we don't even HAVE a police department. The VSP is supposed to provide police services, but I think I've seen a statie drive through ONCE in 6 months. No worries... Col. Colt keeps our house safe. (or Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson, if my future sister-in-law is responding...).

 

[Bob P]

Selig believes politics are behind the county government’s decision to not funnel what funds they do have toward law enforcement. He says the county government seems to be pressuring the citizens to pass an additional tax hike they cannot afford

There it is.

 

[fencer]

Can't the Sheriff deputize some of the locals? Serious question.

Flame away, but I have to believe that it is a pretty tight knit community and if I were the Sheriff, I would ask 10 of the most level headed, responsible guys I know if they would step up and become volunteer deputies.

 

[Bob P]

Can't the Sheriff deputize some of the locals? Serious question.

Flame away, but I have to believe that it is a pretty tight knit community and if I were the Sheriff, I would ask 10 of the most level headed, responsible guys I know if they would step up and become volunteer deputies.

The local pols were trying to bully the town into raising taxes by focusing on these essential services and then spreading fear through the way the messaged things. Happily the town told them to go **** themselves and took it upon themselves to sort things out. There's the REAL lesson in this. Do not play their game, change the rules.

 

[cekim]

The local pols were trying to bully the town into raising taxes by focusing on these essential services and then spreading fear through the way the messaged things. Happily the town told them to go **** themselves and took it upon themselves to sort things out. There's the REAL lesson in this. Do not play their game, change the rules.

You mean like putting up gates at national parks while workers were being paid to stay at home during the shutdown?

Say it ain't so?

 

[CRSIII]

methinks people aren't sure of the difference between the words citizen and civilian in this thread.

Guilty of the brain fart.

 

[Coyote33]

Another problem is methed out tweakers that think absolutely nothing of beating the shit out of elderly people for the change in their pocket. Can we really expect them to defend themselves? ...

Yes. Firearms are the great equalizer.

methinks people aren't sure of the difference between the words citizen and civilian in this thread.

I think you hit the nail on the head!

Can't the Sheriff deputize some of the locals? Serious question. ...

Good new/old idea!

CHECK OUT:
The Role of Reserve Deputy Sheriff (I've heard it also lets you get LE discounts, and "LE only" stuff also)

 

[wahsben]

A citizen found the marathon bomber.

If I remember correctly citizens also stopped the shoe bomber on the plane and a citizen stopped the bomber in NY.

As sovereign citizens they have the authority to do this.
We delegate authority to the police we do not have to surrender ours just because there are police.