Army/Marines want more from their recruits.

[fitzknny]

My service was in the Army, but I always loved this story.

"Legend has it that the United States Marine Corps was born on 10 November, 1775, at Tun Tavern, in Philidelphia, Pennsylvania. On that day, the Continental Congress passed a resolution authorizing two battalions of Continental Marines. The resolution was sponsored by John Adams. Since 1921, the Corps has celebrated its birthday as 10 November.

Tun Tavern was a popular meeting place of 18th century Philadelphians. The tavern was frequented by sailors and other seafaring men, so it was a logical place to conduct the business of recruiting."

When the Navy officers set up a table in the Tun Tavern and started interviewing prospects, they were a bit relieved to finally find a young man who fit their requirements. They had him sign the book, paid him his dollar, and bought a round of rum to toast the enlistment. They were so happy to finally get the whole process underway, they even had a second round. They then send him off to a table in the corner to wait.

After a few more interviews, they found a second recruit, who soon joined the first.

"This is great," the second recruit said. "They paid me right away, and even bought me a tot of rum!"

"Hunh," sneered the first. "In the Old Corps they bought us two."

There's always going to be "shower shoes" . . . . . . . LOL !

 

[fencer]

And " Go fasters"

Before I left for P.I. my recruiter gave me a little list of shit that you can bring to boot. On the list it said you could bring a pair of white running shoes or you will have to buy a pair of Nike's at the PX for $17
My brother went through in 67. He just shook his head and said " Maybe they will let you wear them in combat"

 

[crazymjb]

And when I got there we were all sized for and issued New Balance sneakers.

Mike

 

[dustoff22]

Two local high schools with which I'm familiar have curtailed several of their sports programs.......not because of costs.......because of lack of interest in participation.

My eldest son has been a phy ed teacher for 20+ years. Todays' kids (and there are exceptions for sure) just don't have the physical prowess, stamina, or desire that kids did 20+ years ago.

The Army/Marines want more from their recruits............and where do these kids come from? Army Special Forces has a numbers deficit because they can't find adequate candidates fit enough or smart enough to fit their paradigm. Maybe we can blame too many video games, helicopter parents, and trophies for everyone?

 

[fencer]

The Army/Marines want more from their recruits............and where do these kids come from? Army Special Forces has a numbers deficit because they can't find adequate candidates fit enough or smart enough to fit their paradigm. Maybe we can blame too many video games, helicopter parents, and trophies for everyone?

I'm gonna go with Alaska? - Not the North East, that is for sure. I would imagine warmer climates tend to have more active kids, but that is just a theory. I also think that a less fit population is one of the unintended consequences of advances in technology, and labor saving innovations.
I also think that the snowflakes of today see the military as a place for kids who can't or won't go on to college

 

[dustoff22]

I also think that the snowflakes of today see the military as a place for kids who can't or won't go on to college

No doubt but I think it's always been that way. Like any group, there are the lazy dumbshits but in my military experience as I look back on it, I was ultimately impressed with how many motivated young folks I worked with and witnessed, particularly in Vietnam. And most were not draftees. Many were bored with school and didn't want (at that time) to waste time going to college.

 

[MisterHappy]

My son graduated Basic in July.

"What was the worst part?" I asked.

"People that didn't pull their weight."

 

[Johnmark]

Old crops here 14 June 70. HOT HOT DI TOUCHED ME ONCE LOL he maintained discipline DEDICATION TO ONE another and the task before us.

 

[frenchman]

Honestly? The Legion has its own way to deal with those people. One of two things:
1) the team in Aubagne, where the selection happens, notices that you're a daisy. You're lucky, you just get sent home. No explanation, no way back in. Just go away.
2) you manage to fool the people in the 1st RE and make it to boot camp. Oh boy, you're in for a treat. You'll quickly be the "banañero" of the company. (In the Legion, doing a banana means screwing up in a major way). The result will be frequent "claques de Bon fonctionnement" (kinda translates into "function enhancing slaps"), and they'll send you home when their hands start hurting. Either way, you'll never come close to joining a combat regiment.
But then, the Legion has 9 applicants for every opening. They can afford to pick and choose.

 

[crazymjb]

Honestly? The Legion has its own way to deal with those people. One of two things:
1) the team in Aubagne, where the selection happens, notices that you're a daisy. You're lucky, you just get sent home. No explanation, no way back in. Just go away.
2) you manage to fool the people in the 1st RE and make it to boot camp. Oh boy, you're in for a treat. You'll quickly be the "banañero" of the company. (In the Legion, doing a banana means screwing up in a major way). The result will be frequent "claques de Bon fonctionnement" (kinda translates into "function enhancing slaps"), and they'll send you home when their hands start hurting. Either way, you'll never come close to joining a combat regiment.
But then, the Legion has 9 applicants for every opening. They can afford to pick and choose.

Unfortunately the regular forces don't have the luxury of being so selective. Even in the regular infantry we had a way of quarantining the biggest f***-ups so they could do the least damage, but we couldn't/can't "fire" people like the higher-speed units can.

Mike

 

[Lip]

Put yourself in the shoes of an 18yo male today. You've got some outdoors experience, you're physically fit, you've got some background in firearms whether hunting or target shooting. Your public education has emphasized to you that you're racist because of your white skin and you recognize the hypocrisy. You've observed that it's okay to mock Christians and denigrate them - no one gets punished or told off for that. However if you say anything remotely derogatory about Mohammed, spaghetti monsters, or mother earth, or chew a poptart into an L-shape, you immediately get detention, letters sent home, etc. Blacks and Hispanics get away with whatever they want because if any administrator says anything, the student plays the race card and the administrator is punished. You were thinking about going to college, but they don't want you because you have white skin or not female. How about the military, you've got the foundation for those skills?

About that military: a four-star general starts spouting off about diversity and how great it is. By the way he says, diversity isn't our physical characteristics, it's the way we think and our backgrounds. Five seconds later he invites you to come visit the current crop of recruits at Basic and says you can "see the diversity with your own eyes!" (This actually happened in a non-attribution environment)

This military would rather harangue men about sexual assault than perform rifle drills and discuss transgender issues than practice throwing grenades. All the same things mentioned in school above are also present in the military. By the way it's also trying to encourage women into combat roles they generally aren't physically fit for - rather reminiscent of those colleges that didn't want you either. You'll just have to lug around extra water and ammo for them because they have their hands full with just the body armor (half the time they don't even carry most of the plates or any at all). There is muzzle strike practice, and if you get squared off with a female and don't strike her hard enough dammit she's not getting the training she needs, but if you strike her a bit harder and knock her down you're bullying her (also an actual event).

Gen Z isn't blind, they know all this is going on and have no interest in being part of it. Why should they?

I'd have stayed home if I was 18 now. Basic was easy in the Army in the 80s, gosh it must resemble Airforce training now.

 

[Randy A]

Ur dealing with millelianals
Sarge I need somebody to wipe my ass

That is exactly what they're talking about. I'm a retired 1SG and the last few years the new recruit sh** that walked through my door calling itself a soldier is appalling. To top it off they think they're the best thing that ever happened to the Army, expect everything and offer nothing.... this is what participation ribbons and well... you know what all else gets us.

 

[fencer]

Honestly? The Legion has its own way to deal with those people. One of two things:
1) the team in Aubagne, where the selection happens, notices that you're a daisy. You're lucky, you just get sent home. No explanation, no way back in. Just go away.
2) you manage to fool the people in the 1st RE and make it to boot camp. Oh boy, you're in for a treat. You'll quickly be the "banañero" of the company. (In the Legion, doing a banana means screwing up in a major way). The result will be frequent "claques de Bon fonctionnement" (kinda translates into "function enhancing slaps"), and they'll send you home when their hands start hurting. Either way, you'll never come close to joining a combat regiment.
But then, the Legion has 9 applicants for every opening. They can afford to pick and choose.

Gee, I was under the impression that the Legion could just make you disappear. Like drop you out of a helo in shark infested waters, seven miles off the coast of Africa, and just fly away.

Unfortunately the regular forces don't have the luxury of being so selective. Even in the regular infantry we had a way of quarantining the biggest f***-ups so they could do the least damage, but we couldn't/can't "fire" people like the higher-speed units can.

They don't just send them to motor t or the spoon platoon anymore?

I'd have stayed home if I was 18 now. Basic was easy in the Army in the 80s, gosh it must resemble Airforce training now.

Marine Corps boot in the 80's still sucked. They didn't beat you like they did during Nam but they still managed to knock you around. The first day there, the Senior gave his little speech and tells you that throughout Boot, you will be asked if you have ever been assaulted or denied a head call, or singled out.... " We all know the answer to that question, Right?"

 

[Admin]

My son graduated from PI last month. I was surprised how many red stripes didn't lose their "baby fat".

From what he told me the attrition rate from his boot camp and mine in 1992 was about the exact same. My battalion just didn't have any heavy hotties walking the parade deck.

 

[M60]

My son graduated from PI last month. I was surprised how many red stripes didn't lose their "baby fat".

From what he told me the attrition rate from his boot camp and mine in 1992 was about the exact same. My battalion just didn't have any heavy hotties walking the parade deck.

Lol. We just called them fat body's. We had damn few, but honestly they couldn't do what was required, until they lost the fat. You know, ya gotta make it through the confidence course.

 

[M60]

My son graduated from PI last month. I was surprised how many red stripes didn't lose their "baby fat".

From what he told me the attrition rate from his boot camp and mine in 1992 was about the exact same. My battalion just didn't have any heavy hotties walking the parade deck.

Congrats on your sons graduation from P.I.. Now onto Camp Geiger. You must be proud. Nice to know that Heavans Sea's are still guarded by the Corps..

 

[M60]

I hate to be the barer of bad news...but...did you know Kevin Spacey touches little boys?

If your name is fencer, stop reading now...

...i mean it.

...is he gone?

...can you believe he was surprised by that? 03's are like 'box of hammers' retarded...but let's keep that between us.

Hey,hey. Be nice. You ever been hit in the head by a hammer? Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 

[M60]

Pentagon Wants Army, Marine Corps to Select Higher-Caliber Grunts

Will 6' 4" and .458 socom do?

 

[fitzknny]

Lol. We just called them fat body's. We had damn few, but honestly they couldn't do what was required, until they lost the fat. You know, ya gotta make it through the confidence course.

In 66' they were sent to motivation/ fat body platoon . . . Worked endlessly ( move that pile of sand, with buckets back and forth back and forth run run run, etc.). . . . . . Most made the required weight requirements I think . . . Side story, my high school buddy I went in on the "Buddy Program" got sent to motivation platoon for smoking on Fire Watch duty . . . Set back 2 weeks .

 

[M60]

In 66' they were sent to motivation/ fat body platoon . . . Worked endlessly ( move that pile of sand, with buckets back and forth back and forth run run run, etc.). . . . . . Most made the required weight requirements I think . . . Side story, my high school buddy I went in on the "Buddy Program" got sent to motivation platoon for smoking on Fire Watch duty . . . Set back 2 weeks .

Lol. It hadn't changed in 68. I joined on the buddy system with 2 friends from high school. The three of us had played high school football and we all 3 agreed that boot camp was like football practice with harassment added.

 

[fencer]

Lol. It hadn't changed in 68. I joined on the buddy system with 2 friends from high school. The three of us had played high school football and we all 3 agreed that boot camp was like football practice with harassment added.

That is so true. Double sessions in August were a good primer for boot. I played JV ball down south and the coach was a certifiable, batshit crazy Nam, Jarhead. We hit sleds until someone puked. Seriously. This guy was ripped and built like Lou Ferrigno and had totally white hair and ice blue eyes. Urban legend was that his hair all went white at once during a firefight. He was scary, always screaming and redfaced on the field with veins popping out of his neck and fore head.
I have a friend that I used to work with mention to me that his son was thinking of the Corps after highschool. I asked him if he played any sports. "Yeah, he lettered in tennis". I said "Yeah... he's f***ed". "Did he score high enough on the ASVAB to look into the Air Force?" lol

 

[M60]

That is so true. Double sessions in August were a good primer for boot. I played JV ball down south and the coach was a certifiable, batshit crazy Nam, Jarhead. We hit sleds until someone puked. Seriously. This guy was ripped and built like Lou Ferrigno and had totally white hair and ice blue eyes. Urban legend was that his hair all went white at once during a firefight. He was scary, always screaming and redfaced on the field with veins popping out of his neck and fore head.
I have a friend that I used to work with mention to me that his son was thinking of the Corps after highschool. I asked him if he played any sports. "Yeah, he lettered in tennis". I said "Yeah... he's f***ed". "Did he score high enough on the ASVAB to look into the Air Force?" lol

Yup. I think we had the same coach. My coach had a neck as big as wheel on a volkswagon and he loved the sleds too. He use to have us run the treeline around the school, about 2 miles, after summer practices, until enough guys puked to satisfy him. He was also our gym teacher. He wouldn't let first stringers take gym class during football season. He said he wasn't losing any football games because some idiot got hurt in a wrestling match, or playing girls volleyball.

 

[M60]

And when I got there we were all sized for and issued New Balance sneakers.

Mike

New Balance sneakers! When did that start? When I went through P.I., boot camp had been cut from 16 weeks to 12 weeks and again from 12 weeks to 8 weeks. They needed guys in southeast asia. During my 8 weeks at P.I., our whole platoon had our boots resouled and reheeled twice. Sneakers would have been nice. For what chore did you guys get to wear sneakers? And don't tell me Elliot's Beach. Lol.

 

[crazymjb]

Sneakers were for morning PT when we were not in boots and utes, running fitness tests, etc.

My son graduated from PI last month. I was surprised how many red stripes didn't lose their "baby fat".

From what he told me the attrition rate from his boot camp and mine in 1992 was about the exact same. My battalion just didn't have any heavy hotties walking the parade deck.

Congrats on your sons graduation!

I gained weight and my PT went down at PI in 2008. I had other friends who got scary skinny. I lost weight again and my PT got better in infantry school. Infantry school was MUCH more physically and academically demanding... but way less by way of f***-f*** games. As to whether or not it was soft, nobody got physically beaten up, but let's just say physical adjustments were made. I will say it was harsh, but it was fair. There was nothing I would categorize as abuse that took place, but I can't speak for the mothers of America.

I want to say we started the low 90s, graduated the low 70s, and also picked up a few prior-drops, and dropped a few of our own to later platoons.

Mike

 

[Dench]

Jesus Christ what did I just walk into with this thread? Not really sure what the article is talking about in terms of problems recruiting. The Army is larger now than it was pre 9/11. Clearly people are joining and being retained. Troop for troop in all 4 major branches the US military is ~30,000 less than it was in 2000. Not really a big difference.

High calibre grunt? Is that such a thing? If I was a straight A student in high school - which I certainly was not, the last thing I would be doing is joining the US Army as an infantryman to go fight Haji and his friends in Iraq. It's the absolute last thing I would do. But since I was (still?) a dumb ass I went in as a combat engineer. Sure, my military career was pretty lackluster, relatively easy when compared to others and had a simple deployment. I hated almost every moment of it looking back. Even as a moron it was a tough sell. And by looking at my facebook friends of people I knew 15+ years ago who I joined with, very few people are still in. I think the reason for that is simple: the wars looked endless (and it turns out they are), the wars are completely useless and unrelated to actual US strategic security and many would argue the war has had draconian policy trickle down into civilians lives here in the states. F that.

The "war on terror" is still somehow going on. The men coming of age now have had nothing but war their entire lives. We've been in Afghanistan for over 17 years now. A 20 year old isnt going to remember much about that 1 year when he was 3 that the US wasnt fighting someone for some reason. When 9/11 broke out everyone was all hyped up. People took that as a direct insult and holy shit were a lot of people ready to go off and crack some skulls. But that was a long time ago. And kids today don't care much about it. It would be like asking me about the invasion of Panama or Grenada when I graduated HS, I would say who gives a shit?

There is no shortage of SF qualified candidates. What there is a shortage of is solid marketing, good leadership and people with half a brain who can identify true leaders, intelligent soldiers and soldiers who aren't being recognised by their leadership for their abilities in general. This has been a problem for every military throughout history.

Ur dealing with millelianals
Sarge I need somebody to wipe my ass

Just don't forget about all these people who needed their asses wiped who went over to Iraq and Afghanistan when the shit was real hot. 2003-2009 were the real hard years in Iraq for US deaths. Most of the deaths are low to mid ranking soldiers and a lot of those people were Millennials and young Gen X. Probably thousands.

Then we have Afghanistan. The worst years there were 2005-2013. These soldiers were born later and at a higher rate Millennials.

Millenials and Gen X have been at war for the past 17 years and the WoT is very much our war. Perhaps put that into perspective, look at the loss and sacrifice and think before you insult and entire generation of people.

I believe they dropped the hand grenade training from Basic and I don't think they mix flavors during hand to hand combat training, but other than that I see what you were getting at. At least better than the first reading!

I had to look into this since it was the 1st I've heard of it. Grenade training was somewhat a joke when I did it.

There is more to this story it looks like. The M67 is 14 ounces, 2.5 inches in diameter. A baseball is 5.25 ounces, 2.9 inches in diameter. A grenade is almost 3 times as heavy and is smaller. They are heavy for their size. Not to get all conspiracy theory on you guys, but someone told Dench at some point that Men may have significantly stronger upper bodies than people who aren't men. 100% completely unrelated to this, a small minority of people other than men are trying to join combat arms... for reasons. These people other than men have been jammed up by things that men excel at, specifically tasks relating to high upper body strength.

Also on an unrelated note, the Army is in the process of radically changing its PT test moving away from the gendered insane PT test of past and present. Now this is all a pure continuing coincidence but the minimum pass scores for the new PT test for a "heavy physical demand" PT test is jusstttttttttttt were an inshape person who's not a man lands at. This person who's not a man will be able to do on average 5% more weight than the test demands for deadlifts, for instance.

Pushups have entered into the Twilight zone. Now were doing release pushups. Half the challenge of the old PT test for PU's was actually being able to do 2 minutes straight without being DQ'd due to arm failure. Not many people could max out the pushup test. Not only did it take solid arm and chest strength, it also required a very strong core because you were not allowed to remove the tension of your upper body for the duration of the exercise. With these amazing crossfit ones everyone gets to sneak in a tiny rest of their core between reps - eliminating the one thing that screwed most people out of high PU scores. Definitely not another coincidence, the max quantity for the max score for these new PU's remain the same, yet the minimum for a "heavy mos" is now 30. it was 42 for the old test for males, 19 for people other than males. Also not an oddity every age and scoring bracket for max score for the old PU test for sex's other than males is over 30 until the age of 57.

The run you ask? Yes sir. Let's take a peak. The new minimum pass time is 18:00 minutes for 2 miles. How that is a thing only Jesus H. Christ himself knows. Back in Dench's day it was 15:54 or your loser ass failed. Not coincidentally at all the slowest time on the old PT test for people who definitely aren't males at 17-21 is 18:54.

TLR, the new PT test is specifically designed to allow most females who actually exercise to be able to pass a new standard and be allowed to enter a combat MOS while using the same standards as a male. Can you deadlift 160lbs? Welcome aboard. Dench can do 340? We're all the same here, right? Pushups? I did max this out when I was young with numbers into the 70's. A female? 30 and done, dont worry about it. The run? I mean seriously, why the f*** even bother with the run at this point. If you cant run 2 miles in 18:00 minutes and you are in the military you have really screwed up for a long period of time. Same goes with heavy round objects being thrown long distances. A lot of women have problems with it. Since the army can't think of a clever way to work around it they just remove the standard entirely. Throwing a hand grenade as a male is not difficult. Throwing one as a female is.


As for Army combatives, I had to look into it before I posted since I'm pretty out of touch. From the looks of it it's still same old. Basic grappling, basic pugil sticks, nothing special. The Army did drop the bayonet training a while ago, which is a mistake in my opinion much like a lot of other things they do such as allow cell phone use in basic - especially during the initial course prior to MOS school. I think that's pretty lame. One of the hardest parts of basic is being away from your family, friends and familiar environments. Having a smart phone with you definitely does not make you feel isolated.







In closing, don't blame the current generation. Just because you are 86 years old and think that an 18 year old today is a millennial doesn't mean it's that persons fault. The US Military suffers from a MAJOR SJW issue, and it has done so for quite a while nearly a decade now. When I was in minorities were targeted for recognition. Now we've moved onto trans people and women. Women physically do not have the body strength men do. And people hated the female PT test as it was a joke and simple to max out. So here we are. Everyone on an even playing ground and the bar set so low that you'd have to try to fail.

The leadership has failed the military for a long, long time. Anything over E8 is a political rank for all intents and purposes. These people are mouthpieces, empty suits, formally good people and now pieces of shit. if you need an example take a look at GEN Nicholson trying to make up excuses on why Afghanistan is Romper Room still 16+ years after we propped up the Afghan National Army. People like him are the problem. Not kids. Not 18 year olds. Not people in their 20's. If you want to pick a generation to take a giant shit on, look no further than GEN Nicholsons. His generation is the one driving this policy. Not the Millenials and not Gen Z.

 

[fishgutzy]

They want that along with the 'Mothers of America' pussified rules for Recruit Training. You can't have both.

Let the Drill Instructors do their jobs and get the f*** out of the way, or expect a sub-standard product...period.

Some of the guys I'm getting these days are still decent, but I'm thinking they were probably disciplined by their parents before heading to PI. The other 2/3rds of boots, I can't even believe they're in the same branch of service as the rest of us they're so f***ed up. Either the recruiters are getting really desperate, or our beloved Chesty signed a deal with the devil. Either way, things aren't exactly on the up and up right now. I'm well beyond my obligated contract, but still showing up because there's no one capable of leading right now. I understand that it's my duty to create the next leader, but i need some clay to make a brick...all I have is red mud.

I was smart enough to know I was neither Marine or Army material. So I went USAF out of high school. At boot camp less than a month after graduation.
I would never have passed the physical fitness test for Army or Marines. I could never do even one pull up. Still can't. But I can swim 20km now. Just can't do pull ups.