Assault Style Firearm Update – March 27, 2025

[MAJoe]

And read the clause that bolt, pump, lever, and slide action firearms are exempt. To be considered an ASF it MUST be semi auto.

Good catch, thanks. I stand corrected.

 

[MAJoe]

Well so does an MCX but those can still be bought as long as they have the fin grip.

It does? Last I looked they were completely different.

 

[1903Collector]

So what we gonna call our NES prison gang??

 

[MAJoe]

In Ma?
I thought anything rifle post 8/1 that's semi-auto/centerfire/detachable mag had to be manufactured to fixed mag...

No, it just can’t fall afoul of any of the features. I don’t know how what CGW is selling meets the definition unless they also remove the hand guard (barrel shroud).

 

[CapeCod Shooter_56]

In Ma?
I thought anything rifle post 8/1 that's semi-auto/centerfire/detachable mag had to be manufactured to fixed mag...

No they just can’t have more than 1 “Evil Feature” so if you want a barrel shroud then you must have a fin grip. This goes for any non ar or other enumerated ASF. So an mcx with a fin grip is fine since it only incorporates the barrel shroud.

 

[chris_1001]

So what we gonna call our NES prison gang??

I already have called my celly… @Spartan65

 

[not new guy]

So what we gonna call our NES prison gang??

The Breech Loaders

 

[Picton]

So what we gonna call our NES prison gang??

Flobert and the Parlor Boyz

 

[1903Collector]

I was thinking Maura's Bitches.

 

[Marty McFly]

Post felone

 

[JRLB]

The lower and LPK are all 100% the same. That’s what they care about.

(ii) that has a receiver that is the same as or interchangeable with the receiver of an enumerated firearm in said clauses (d) and (e)

Ream out the pin holes of the upper and lower to a larger size. Then it’s no longer interchangeable.

 

[pastera]

It’s not configured as anything if it’s a stripped receiver. Although it’s legally a firearm there’s plenty of possibilities as to how it will be built out.

Read the law, specifically section (g) of the assault-style firearm definition.

Mounting a 22lr or pump or bolt upper doesn't change the fact that the receiver is by definition an assault-style firearm.
The only real workaround is a fixed magazine.

 

[pastera]

And read the clause that bolt, pump, lever, and slide action firearms are exempt. To be considered an ASF it MUST be semi auto.

The receiver itself is an ASF - what is mounted to it is irrelevant.
Read section (g) of the ASF definition.

 

[FireMedic102]

It does? Last I looked they were completely different.

Sig sells the upper only kit to build out a lower. I’m not sure how many of the components are different from a traditional AR when you build the stripped lower into a complete lower but I was under the impression that it can be done.

 

[MAJoe]

Sig sells the upper only kit to build out a lower. I’m not sure how many of the components are different from a traditional AR when you build the stripped lower into a complete lower but I was under the impression that it can be done.

I think those are specific conversion uppers for use on AR lowers, not what comes on a factory MCX.

 

[FireMedic102]

I think those are specific conversion uppers for use on AR lowers, not what comes on a factory MCX.

Maybe so, but it would still be different enough to not be considered a copy or duplicate I would think.

 

[CapeCod Shooter_56]

The receiver itself is an ASF - what is mounted to it is irrelevant.
Read section (g) of the ASF definition.

 

[AJK129]

I already have called my celly… @Spartan65

Dibs on reptile

 

[Marty McFly]

Dibs on reptile

That's the only way you get to be the top. I get it

Well not the only way. Completely unrelated. Dibs on @Tinkermatic

 

[Tartakovsky]

Dibs on reptile

 

[Tartakovsky]

So what we gonna call our NES prison gang??

Chris’ Sisters

 

[pastera]

@CapeCod Shooter_56 - quotes aren't working on my phone

Try reading the entire section in context

176 (g) “Assault-style firearm” shall not include any:

(i) firearm that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action;
(ii) firearm that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated as a semiautomatic assault-style firearm;
(iii) firearm that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other firearm that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional firearm and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an assault-style firearm​

An AR lower is by itself a firearm by definition of law
Placing a rimfire, bolt or pump upper on it does not meet the "cannot be readily modified" standard to exclude it.
You can permanently fix a magazine into the lower.
But pushing two captive pins with your thumb is prima facie "readily modified through a combination of available parts"

 

[pastera]

And read the clause that bolt, pump, lever, and slide action firearms are exempt. To be considered an ASF it MUST be semi auto.

You are forgetting ASF definition subsection (g)(ii)
Unless you permanently attached that non-semi upper to the lower, the lower is still considered an ASF.
Similar to permanently installing a fixed magazine.

 

[Toast]

View attachment 981157Try reading the entire section in context


An AR lower is by itself a firearm by definition of law
Placing a rimfire, bolt or pump upper on it does not meet the "cannot be readily modified" standard to exclude it.
You can permanently fix a magazine into the lower.
But pushing two captive pins with your thumb is prima facie "readily modified through a combination of available parts"

You are missing three things:

• (i), (ii), and (iii) are each individually executing. You don't have to meet all 3, you only need to meet one of them. Once you meet part (i), you can stop.
• (ii) only applies to items where a claim is made that they are inoperable.
• (iii) has two "and" sections, therefore all three parts of (iii) need to be met, therefore restricting (iii) only to items where a claim that "It can't fire" is being made.

You are forgetting ASF definition subsection (g)(ii)
Unless you permanently attached that non-semi upper to the lower, the lower is still considered an ASF.
Similar to permanently installing a fixed magazine.

Again, that's an exclusionary section where each subsection stands alone, not a definition section. If you meet (g)(i), you do not need to meet the rest of the exclusions.

By way of analogy:

Patrons must be approved by the bouncer before entry​

​

The following patrons do not need approval by the bouncer:​

1. Women with chest-to-hip ratios greater than 1.6;
2. Women with natural red hair;
3. Women between the ages of 18 and 23 who were born in Palermo;

Any young lady meeting item (1) can avoid screening. She doesn't also need to be a redhead born in Palermo.

 

[pastera]

You are missing three things:

• (i), (ii), and (iii) are each individually executing. You don't have to meet all 3, you only need to meet one of them. Once you meet part (i), you can stop.
• (ii) only applies to items where a claim is made that they are inoperable.
• (iii) has two "and" sections, therefore all three parts of (iii) need to be met, therefore restricting (iii) only to items where a claim that "It can't fire" is being made.

Again, that's an exclusionary section where each subsection stands alone, not a definition section. If you meet (g)(i), you do not need to meet the rest of the exclusions.

Now do the same analysis for JUST the AR lower which is by definition a copy or duplicate of an enumerated firearm.
The only way to cure that is with compliance to section (g)(ii)
And (g)(ii) doesn't only mean it cannot fire, it also allows for a permanent modification that disallowed ASF features (fixed mag or permanent installation of a non-semi upper)

I called out (g)(iii) because that describes a lower - by itself it cannot fire a projectile however it can be readily modified (attach a semiauto upper) into an ASF.

And no, you can't just stop when you see something you like - you must read every clause to determine applicability.
And on this case (g)(iii) holds for an unmodified AR lower.

Remember the definition of firearm no longer requires the ability to fire a projectile

 

[CapeCod Shooter_56]

Now do the same analysis for JUST the AR lower which is by definition a copy or duplicate of an enumerated firearm.
The only way to cure that is with compliance to section (g)(ii)
And (g)(ii) doesn't only mean it cannot fire, it also allows for a permanent modification that disallowed ASF features (fixed mag or permanent installation of a non-semi upper)

I called out (g)(iii) because that describes a lower - by itself it cannot fire a projectile however it can be readily modified (attach a semiauto upper) into an ASF.

And no, you can't just stop when you see something you like - you must read every clause to determine applicability.
And on this case (g)(iii) holds for an unmodified AR lower.

Remember the definition of firearm no longer requires the ability to fire a projectile

Right but because it’s meets (i) then the other two don’t have to apply to it. Any one of the three on their own and its exempt.

 

[Toast]

Now do the same analysis for JUST the AR lower which is by definition a copy or duplicate of an enumerated firearm.

Why? Assuming you have an assembled firearm and not just a lower, there is no need to do that analysis.

And no, you can't just stop when you see something you like - you must read every clause to determine applicability.

On an EXCLUSION list, yes, you can, unless the exclusions are linked with "and" clauses. These are not.

And on this case (g)(iii) holds for an unmodified AR lower.

FFS, one more time, (g)(iii) is an exclusionary condition. Nowhere does it say you have to meet all of the exclusions, you just need to meet one. If you're not trying to use that exclusion, you don't need to refer to it.

Remember the definition of firearm no longer requires the ability to fire a projectile

So what? If you have a built-out firearm, you don't have to give a rat's backside about what other definitions may apply.

 

[pastera]

Why? Assuming you have an assembled firearm and not just a lower, there is no need to do that analysis.


On an EXCLUSION list, yes, you can, unless the exclusions are linked with "and" clauses. These are not.



FFS, one more time, (g)(iii) is an exclusionary condition. Nowhere does it say you have to meet all of the exclusions, you just need to meet one. If you're not trying to use that exclusion, you don't need to refer to it.


So what? If you have a built-out firearm, you don't have to give a rat's backside about what other definitions may apply.

You care because if with a quick push of your takedown pins an "expert" can mount a semiautomatic upper and show it could fire then that lower fits the definition of a ASF.
Subsection (g) defines the exclusions and if your lower can accept a semiautomatic upper and fire a round then it doesn't meet those exclusions.

Now this entire scenario requires law enforcement to be scrutinizing your guns which means you are already screwed.

 

[not new guy]

You guys are talking past each other because of how idiotic this law is. They want the lower to be a firearm regardless of whatever shit is or isn't attached to it. Stick a bolt action upper on it and you have a bolt action firearm, right? Or do you have a firearm (the lower) that is simultaneously both an ASF and a bolt action firearm? Who the hell knows. It seems like the lower would fall under the bolt action exclusion except that it's easily converted back to an ASF as a lower. We know what the state would argue, maybe, but do we know how a cop will act or how a court will rule?

 

[pastera]

Right but because it’s meets (i) then the other two don’t have to apply to it. Any one of the three on their own and its exempt.

The rifle as a whole meets it but the lower, which is a firearm on it's own now l, is an ASF by way of subsections (e) & (f)

I am presenting the argument that I would use if I were the state - and given what we know, it is not a stretch since the total elimination of enumerated guns was a core goal of chapt 135