Barrels

[dcmdon]

Charlie

Are you getting 1/2 MOA 10 shot groups benched using something like a globe front sight or standard aperture and post? Just curious. I know nothing about these ultra precision ARs.

Sent from Samsung Note 2

 

[charliet]

Yes. In high power, you need a rifle that will shoot 1/2MOA. Some days, because of mirage, maybe wind, or lighting 1/2 MOA is tough, but experience will tell a shooter if the rifle will shoot as required.

Check out White Oak Armament, Compass Lake Engineering or Keystone Accuracy...they all produce barrels and uppers that will do this.

 

[PatMcD]

I'm thankful that great accuracy with an AR is so easy to get. It's literally just a phone call and a credit card number away. A monkey wrench, a vise, and ten minutes later, you have a new barrel.

I started out in HP shooting the M14. A new barrel meant more money and a trip to the gunsmith, and even then, you weren't gonna see 1/2 MOA.

 

[jasons]

I started out in HP shooting the M14. A new barrel meant more money and a trip to the gunsmith, and even then, you weren't gonna see 1/2 MOA.

Was the road to the smith uphill both ways?

 

[dcmdon]

I'm thankful that great accuracy with an AR is so easy to get. It's literally just a phone call and a credit card number away. A monkey wrench, a vise, and ten minutes later, you have a new barrel.

I started out in HP shooting the M14. A new barrel meant more money and a trip to the gunsmith, and even then, you weren't gonna see 1/2 MOA.

i spent some time talking to an old timer at a match at Blue Trails years ago about that. He said there were a million variables from bedding to the forarm contact of the barrel all kinds of crazy stuff.

I don't claim to be an expert on match guns, but it seems that if you have decent sights, a good barrel with a properly fitted bolt and a decent trigger, you are 95% of the way there on an AR15. At least with respect to the firearm.

The talent and skill requirements haven't changed.

Either way, there seems to be much less voodoo than with the M1 or M14

 

[mac1911]

O.K., let's talk about barrels. SR config, of course.
WOA has an almost 1 year backlog, so the Wilson I usually get, won't be got.

Who is everybody using?
Who should I go with?
Krieger?
Bartlein?
Satern?
??
And order directly from them or go through a retailer?
This will be the first time I go on my own with this. George made it so easy in the past. Thanks George!

I don't mind spending twice the price of the Wilson IF the barrel lasts twice as long.
I have next season's barrel already, but want to get 2015 taken care of.

Pat, the Wilson you usually get is that the same barrel RRA uses on their NM rifles?

 

[PatMcD]

i spent some time talking to an old timer at a match at Blue Trails years ago about that. He said there were a million variables from bedding to the forarm contact of the barrel all kinds of crazy stuff.

I don't claim to be an expert on match guns, but it seems that if you have decent sights, a good barrel with a properly fitted bolt and a decent trigger, you are 95% of the way there. At least with respect to the firearm.

The talent and skill requirements haven't changed.

Either way, there seems to be much less voodoo than with the M1 or M14

M14 Match Conditioning:
Have gunsmith install a good barrel
Ream flash suppressor
Modify gas cylinder with washers, welding, or screws
Peen barrel splines for gas cylinder
Replace op-rod spring guide with match one
Have receiver properly bedded in match-grade stock
Modify stock ferrule
Make sure handguard isn't dragging the stock
Keep an eye on the bedding and touch-up when necessary
Complete disassemble after a serious wetting to eliminate hydraulic "floating"

Those are what I remember needed to be done to the shooting part of the rifle (I might have missed a few steps).



AR15 Match conditioning:
Install a good barrel with a float tube by yourself out in the shop








Trigger and sight mods need to be done on both rifles, so I didn't include those steps.

For those willing to put up with the M14's maintenance, it is still an excellent target rifle in the right hands.
Mine weren't hose hands.

 

[G Smith]

For those willing to put up with the M14's maintenance, it is still an excellent target rifle in the right hands.
Mine weren't hose hands.

Well stated Pat
Rob G sure put up some awesome scores and had great success at Perry with his 14 this year!

 

[jasons]

Well stated Pat
Rob G sure put up some awesome scores and had great success at Perry with his 14 this year!

Yeah he did. He knows how to shoot that old boat paddle.

 

[PatMcD]

Pat, the Wilson you usually get is that the same barrel RRA uses on their NM rifles?

I don't really know. I'd have to assume a Wilson is a Wilson, but WOA does the chambering that might be different from RRA.

 

[dcmdon]

M14 Match Conditioning:
Have gunsmith install a good barrel
Ream flash suppressor
Modify gas cylinder with washers, welding, or screws
Peen barrel splines for gas cylinder
Replace op-rod spring guide with match one
Have receiver properly bedded in match-grade stock
Modify stock ferrule
Make sure handguard isn't dragging the stock
Keep an eye on the bedding and touch-up when necessary
Complete disassemble after a serious wetting to eliminate hydraulic "floating"

Those are what I remember needed to be done to the shooting part of the rifle (I might have missed a few steps).



AR15 Match conditioning:
Install a good barrel with a float tube by yourself out in the shop

Trigger and sight mods need to be done on both rifles, so I didn't include those steps.

For those willing to put up with the M14's maintenance, it is still an excellent target rifle in the right hands.
Mine weren't hose hands.

Wow.

I didnt explicitly say it above, but my comment about barrel, bolt, sights, and trigger were in reference to the AR. Not the M14.

The old timer also told me he was at Camp Perry and he dropped the gun getting it out of the case. He said a simple drop onto the butt stock could throw an M14 off.


What do you think about truing the face of the upper? Brownells sells this tool to do it:

 

[PatMcD]

Wow.

I didnt explicitly say it above, but my comment about barrel, bolt, sights, and trigger were in reference to the AR. Not the M14.

The old timer also told me he was at Camp Perry and he dropped the gun getting it out of the case. He said a simple drop onto the butt stock could throw an M14 off.


What do you think about truing the face of the upper? Brownells sells this tool to do it:

Yes, I was just trying to point out that the M1/M14 does require a fair amount of "voodoo" when compared to the AR15 (which really couldn't be any simpler).


That tool may be of use on a poorly made upper. Buy from a quality source and those tools probably aren't necessary.

 

[Admin]

M14 Match Conditioning:
Have gunsmith install a good barrel
Ream flash suppressor
Modify gas cylinder with washers, welding, or screws
Peen barrel splines for gas cylinder
Replace op-rod spring guide with match one
Have receiver properly bedded in match-grade stock
Modify stock ferrule
Make sure handguard isn't dragging the stock
Keep an eye on the bedding and touch-up when necessary
Complete disassemble after a serious wetting to eliminate hydraulic "floating"

Those are what I remember needed to be done to the shooting part of the rifle (I might have missed a few steps).


AR15 Match conditioning:
Install a good barrel with a float tube by yourself out in the shop


Trigger and sight mods need to be done on both rifles, so I didn't include those steps.

For those willing to put up with the M14's maintenance, it is still an excellent target rifle in the right hands.
Mine weren't hose hands.

Agree 100%.

 

[dcmdon]

And we haven't even talked about ergonomics and recoil.

I have shot my M1A with people who were noticeably afraid of the recoil.
Even those who aren't afraid of it, can develop a flinch.

Nobody's afraid of an AR15s recoil. Especially a 10 lb match rifle with a 3lb lead weight in the stock.

 

[Admin]

And we haven't even talked about ergonomics and recoil.

I have shot my M1A with people who were noticeably afraid of the recoil.
Even those who aren't afraid of it, can develop a flinch.

Nobody's afraid of an AR15s recoil. Especially a 10 lb match rifle with a 3lb lead weight in the stock.

I think the addition of the pistol grip to the m16/ar15 was for me the biggest advantage over the m1a/m14 in shooting highpower. I think the pistol grip makes shooting standing a lot easier.

 

[edhead35]

I think the addition of the pistol grip to the m16/ar15 was for me the biggest advantage over the m1a/m14 in shooting highpower. I think the pistol grip makes shooting standing a lot easier.

Don't say that, this only proves the pistol grip protruding conspicuously below the receiver makes a gun 43.333333% more killzy

 

[dcmdon]

Yeah, but what people don't seem to realize is the pistol grip was something common to target rifles, even before the AR.

 

[warwickben]

Any advice on a good barrel for my needs. I'm looking for a good /fair price to learn on. I figured I don't need the top of the line since it will be some time before I can out shoot it.

 

[CoastieRon]

My last build got a DTI (Del-Ton) 1:9 barrel. It was $109 shipped by fatboytactical.com. They no longer have any in stock. My first build was a BCM 1:7.

 

[warwickben]

This is my second build . I'm making this more for long range. I probably should of said that.

 

[dcmdon]

Any advice on a good barrel for my needs. I'm looking for a good /fair price to learn on. I figured I don't need the top of the line since it will be some time before I can out shoot it.

Learn in general, or learn High power shooting?

The standard Lothar Walther stainless barrels are a no brainer at $199 if you are looking for a standard barrel.

http://www.lothar-walther.com/473.php

 

[warwickben]

I'm not really looking to do comps . I really down have the time or funds to afford to at this point . Some day lol .

sorry for the messy pic lol. I mainly want a barrel that's good for distance . I'll mainly be shooting this gun at 200 yards from a bench or prone till I can find a longer range I can go to.
I'm not sure what barrel length I should get or what profile.

 

[jasons]

I'm not really looking to do comps . I really down have the time or funds to afford to at this point . Some day lol .

sorry for the messy pic lol. I mainly want a barrel that's good for distance . I'll mainly be shooting this gun at 200 yards from a bench or prone till I can find a longer range I can go to.
I'm not sure what barrel length I should get or what profile.

Even if you don't want to shoot service rifle, a 20" service rifle profile from a good company like White Oak will put them in the middle. Or if you want to tacti-kool it up a bit you could go for one of their SPR or SDM barrels.

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/home.php?cat=250

 

[dcmdon]

Excellent point. And it looks like a WOA service rifle barrel is only about $200

 

[jasons]

Excellent point. And it looks like a WOA service rifle barrel is only about $200

I've used old service rifle barrels for "fun" builds before. They work great.

That was a fairly new service rifle barrel that I convinced myself was bad so I took it out of service. Let's just say it wasn't the barrel.

 

[warwickben]

Even if you don't want to shoot service rifle, a 20" service rifle profile from a good company like White Oak will put them in the middle. Or if you want to tacti-kool it up a bit you could go for one of their SPR or SDM barrels.

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/home.php?cat=250

My thinking when I started to build this was a dmr style to go with my psl.

 

[mac1911]

I've used old service rifle barrels for "fun" builds before. They work great.

That was a fairly new service rifle barrel that I convinced myself was bad so I took it out of service. Let's just say it wasn't the barrel.

this was the direction my NES yankee hill lower was going in. at this point its almost cheaper to buy the RRA A4 NM upper and mount a scope than trying to build one dedicated to optics ?

 

[G Smith]

There are going to be plenty of prone matches out to 600 yards at Maine, NH and Mass Clubs in 2014 where rifles set up like that would be excellent to get involved shooting.

Nobody cares about anybody's score in any match so please don't be intimidated to show up and give it a go..
The only mandatory requirement is to be safe and keep your rounds on paper.

In all the Prone matches we run at NFGA (with the exception of the Championship ) coaching is allowed and encouraged for new shooters and extra sighters are allowed. You just let your scorer know when you're going for record.
Just get yourself at least a solid 100 yard zero and bring at least 69gr decent ammo and you'll be loaned a spotting scope, mat, coaching and anything else you would need. If obtaining ammo is a problem NFGA has plenty of Hornady 75 gr ammo that we sell to people the day of the match for shooting the match.

Given that;
Can any of you people that have never shot a prone match give me any good reasons why not to show up and give it a try????

 

[Supermoto]

Given that;
Can any of you people that have never shot a prone match give me any good reasons why not to show up and give it a try????

Because it sounds boring. Prone is for sleeping

 

[mac1911]

Can any of you people that have never shot a prone match give me any good reasons why not to show up and give it a try???? my only reason is I just have limitted time!
I do shoot local matches out to 200 yards when I can also. The excuses from other shooters i try to get involved are never ending. I offer guns ammo rides lunch and still no show.
Comes down to scared or lazy i guess