Becoming a LEO officer...

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You are right but I care. I have had people tell me to my face that veterans are not qualified to be police officers because they have PTSD, have criminal records (why else would you join to fight a war) or are drug a users from the meds they get from the va. That because of this they will have no problem getting hired in a civil service community once the background investigation clears the veterans out of the way. I wish I was making this crap up but I won't bore you with details. So years later when these same tool bags are hoping the nut house has been locking vets up has not happened, the Tom foolery appears and the political favors start appearing.hence menino's skirting of the system

Is it skirting the system when the Civil Service system is complete bullshit to begin with??
 
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Err no. It's to prevent daddy who is a selectmen from putting his kid on top of the list. The town of Braintree fire is notorious for this. Want more points work as a part timer or join the service.

And in doing so, the Civil Service system had to bump up one group as part of the " keep another privileged group" out of the upper echelons of hiring possibilities. Do people not see the problem with this??
 
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Is it skirting the system when the Civil Service system is complete bullshit to begin with??

Everyone complains about CS in the hiring process, but you'll be glad to have it once you're hired. I've seen it save more jobs from politically-motivated firings than I can count, and ensure guys aren't passed over for promotions because they don't kiss the right fourth points of contact.
 
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Everyone complains about CS in the hiring process, but you'll be glad to have it once you're hired. I've seen it save more jobs from politically-motivated firings than I can count, and ensure guys aren't passed over for promotions because they don't kiss the right fourth points of contact.

Employers should be able to hire and fire at will, and promote at will. If someone first like it, they can leave.
 
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Employers should be able to hire and fire at will, and promote at will. If someone first like it, they can leave.

Yeah, nepotism using the public coffers is sooo libertarian.

So, let me get this straight: You'd support hiring and promotion practices similar to that of the MA Probation Dept. simply because the commissioner of probation should have had the power to hire and fire whomever he'd like and for whatever reason?
 
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Employers should be able to hire and fire at will, and promote at will. If someone first like it, they can leave.

A century ago police departments acted exactly that way and were far more corrupt and inefficient than they are today, simple historical fact. No doubt "a usual suspect" will chime in and say something smart about how nothing has changed, but the very reason that Civil Service and a number of laws passed regarding police promotion and hiring procedures was put into place was to curb the excesses and corruption of the type of system that you are describing.

Now if you want to talk about reforming the current system in some kind of meaningful way, that is quite another topic. Clearly there have been unintended consequences under the current system and probably no one saw the rise and power of the police and public service unions, especially here in the Northeast. There are ways too, under the current system that still ensure that nepotism plays an important part in the hiring process in many cases unless one is a member of a recognized minority group or female.

Regretfully, simplistic answers with broad sweeping generalizations don't really address a very complex problem. We have yet to come up with a meaningful way to deal with policing. There are many misconceptions, historical half truths and generalizations. The only thing that seems to emerge is that to have good policing is to have citizen involvement and community participation at the grass roots level, but frankly most people could care less, and the police have erected barriers within their own ranks for various reasons that I won't enumerate here.

If you want a simplistic general statement is boils down to this: The citizenry gets the criminal justice system it deserves and the government in general it deserves because of priorities. Most would rather go to the mall than worry about governance in their daily lives. Remember what the old Banned Barrister said: "What you tolerate you validate and what you validate...you deserve." [wink]
 
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That reminds me of a friend of mine that works for a civil service department. Some selectmen for Lancaster ma (yes I will out the town) was caught speeding. Was given a ticket and told my friend he was a selectmen in Lancaster and wanted to talk to his boss about it. He said check the website and find the contact numbers and go from there. Makes you wonder what would happen to a cop in Lancaster which is not civil service if he gave this "selectmen" a speeding ticket. Also the town of Braintree fire is notorious for nepotism. The chief ignored 70 people on the test list so be could get his nephew a job. I know I was number 20 on the list
 
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Finally got my score and I got a 97 but I'm assuming a lot of people scored high this time around. So theres a lot of competition out there.

Congrats man,,,,i got a 95, ran into a guy who got a 92 today, its a pretty straight forward test, you gotta mess up on purpose to do badly. Also you might score good but if your not a Vet...[horse]....good luck Also Typical the state gives us the scores and doesnt publish the list [banghead]

Speaking about the Vet thing...I was talking with my uncle, a Navy Vet and 32 Years on the job down in a City in FL as a FF/Medic. I mentioned how Veterans and disabled vets get preference. He got the Veteran part but he didnt get the disabled part, his thinking, why do i want a firefighter missing a thumb or a Cop with "bad" PTSD responding to a call, they might not be able to do the job or they might be a risk to the public, their coworkers n themselves? Just throwing that out there.
 

Serapis

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Congrats man,,,,i got a 95, ran into a guy who got a 92 today, its a pretty straight forward test, you gotta mess up on purpose to do badly. Also you might score good but if your not a Vet...[horse]....good luck Also Typical the state gives us the scores and doesnt publish the list [banghead]

Speaking about the Vet thing...I was talking with my uncle, a Navy Vet and 32 Years on the job down in a City in FL as a FF/Medic. I mentioned how Veterans and disabled vets get preference. He got the Veteran part but he didnt get the disabled part, his thinking, why do i want a firefighter missing a thumb or a Cop with "bad" PTSD responding to a call, they might not be able to do the job or they might be a risk to the public, their coworkers n themselves? Just throwing that out there.

Ignorant.

FYI, you have to pass both a mental and physical test to make sure you can do the job. Missing a digit prevents you from doing nothing. You have to understand that a disabled veteran is not Tom Cruise in the movie, "Born on the 4th of July." I am so sick of this attitude. Do yourself a favor and if you get hired keep that to yourself or you'll end up the guy that no one talks to.
 
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Ignorant.

FYI, you have to pass both a mental and physical test to make sure you can do the job. Missing a digit prevents you from doing nothing. You have to understand that a disabled veteran is not Tom Cruise in the movie, "Born on the 4th of July." I am so sick of this attitude.

Points like the one you replied to seem to suggest an unfortunate stereotype of disabled veterans. D-Vet preference in CS hiring and layoffs is based on the policy consideration that D-Vets are likely prevented from performing tasks required for other public jobs as a result of their disabilities. The vet preference stems from not the assumption that vets make better public servants, but rather that historically after wars, vets would return home unemployed, and that the situation of having thousands of unemployed, trained fighting men creates a host of social problems. Antiquated and socialistic? Maybe. But let's at least have the proper argument: Not whether D-Vets can do the job, but rather whether disabled ratings are given out too easily. (I still think the answer to the second question is no, BTW.)

FWIW, I know plenty of guys who a D-Vets for one small reason or another. Generally, an injury that warrants 100% rating is going to prevent a guy from becoming a firefighter or cop, but a rating of, say, 40% can be overcome. A few are on my job and other PD's I'm aware of, and were hired as D-Vets. One has 40% hearing loss from an IED, and another has a similar rating as the result of the two Purple Hearts he received in Iraq.
 
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So say if I wanted to join a different city department can I "apply to do so" if I'm one town over? I see I'm only eligible on my towns list however I would love to work for the next town over.

I think we just have to wait and hope they pull our name. My town in not CS but all the towns around me are and they don't have too many high scoring residents. So hopefully they'll see I live in the next town and contact me
 
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Does anybody know if we can refuse more than 3 offers now? My dad said back in the day they could only turn down 3 offers before they were SOL.

Did anybody get to choose any preferences? Didn't they stop that? Cuz I couldn't do it

Anybody??
 
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If you haven't checked the list recently you should. I just checked it and the group I am in was lower on the list by 6 points.
 

jhagberg88

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called today and sent in my 214 and emt cert, they said they dont update the public list very often but the internal one is done daily.
 

Serapis

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Just to clear up a misconception I have seen here. Just because a city or town is not civil service does not mean they are employees at will. They are still protected by there unions. One simply cannot get fired just because they gave a selectman a speeding ticket. That is absurd.

If your union fails to protect your job, there is a good chance that civil service cannot either. If neither can you might be a scum bag and deserved to get shit canned.

There is a recent push for some municipalities to get out of the civil service. You are starting to see these pop up more frequently.
 
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