Big Ol' Rant about shooting accessability

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SigSlinger508

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Ive grown increasingly frustrated with the way alot if the gun culture folks here in MA deal with actually shooting and training with our firearms. As far as I can tell, the only "public" indoor ranges are Mass Firearms School in Holliston and American Firearms School in North Attleboro.

MFS has indoor ranges but you can't shoot any rifle calibers there. AFS, which I have not yet been to, supposedly allows rifle calibers in their ranges but is even more expensive to "join" and even a membership means discounts on renting a firearm you want to try rather than open access like at MFS.

Other than those places, you gotta join some private club that costs even more money and has a whole inconvenient vetting process like once a month and then you have to make time when you aren't working to go to do work there if you dont want to pay even more dues.

AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE?! I am very confused as to why we as a group who already has to deal with such restrictive gun laws have not tried or have purposefully made it even more expensive and difficult to just GO SHOOT and train.

We aren't really doing ourselves any favors here. They way we win is by introducing new people who show any interest to firearms, whether it be for hunting, competition, plinking, or self defense purposes. When I can bring a guest only twice a year to one of these private clubs it pretty much rules them out.

I enjoy introducing friends and family to firearms, and I enjoy being able to take friends shooting without having to pay out the nose (as if this isn't expensive enough already). If we keep making it more restrictive, exclusive, travel restrictive, and expensive to shoot the numbers of people picking it up without having it handed to them as children will dwindle.

I don't really think we can afford not to actively try to introduce new people to firearms and try to grow in support in this state. Just my two cents. Im sure some guys will rip me apart and some will say just move up to New Hampshire or something, and thats fine, I just wanted to vent and see if anyone else here sees what I see and feels how I feel or if I am alone in this.
 
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Gotta pay to play.

Also, welcome to MA where you pay more for things that make other people sad.
 
When you live in a metro area of 4.5 million people stuffed into a couple thousand square miles (ie a population density between 1-10,000 people/sq mi - and growing) you can pay $100 a yer to join a club, or head for the hills.

I grew up in Andover, population 12,000 and we used to shoot M1 Carbines next to my friend's barn. Now the farm is McMansions and the population is 32,000.
 
Sorry you are alone.

Most clubs (from MetroWest Eastbound) seem to cost ~$100/yr with a first year (only) initiation fee of $50-100. Most do NOT require work parties but some do. Most only require that you show up once to be voted in and then you are free to never show your face again.

I've been a member of 4 different clubs over the past ~40 years and none restricted you from bringing family members as often as you wanted. Most offer ridiculously cheap spouse and junior memberships ($10-25/yr). Bringing other guests tends to be more restricted as the clubs need members and money to operate (they are not for profits, self-sustaining on membership dues) and thus don't want freeloaders coming every week.

This situation and even the dues structure hasn't changed much in all of my ~40 yrs of shooting in MA.

I understand that it is much the same in NH wrt clubs and they only have 2 public ranges that I'm aware of also (MFL & Bedford).

Neither AFS or MFS are cheaper than a gun club, both have more limitations wrt use and what you can shoot (types of guns, distances, etc.). I know that AFS (and the 2 in NH) charge for range use each time as well. Not certain about MFS but would expect the same. Yes, MFS has lots of guns for free use and noplace else does that.

In spite of what you consider impediments in joining clubs, Braintree R&P is now suffering with only ~75 new members joining each month (down from 100-200 during the O-scare days) and Mansfield F&G (in spite of not even having a building to piss in) is getting ~5 new members/month. Neither club is crowded unless there is an event going on (rare occurrence) in spite of the number of members (~5500 at BR&P and ~400 at MF&G). Neither club requires you to ever show your face after being voted in (MF&G)/attending orientation (both clubs). So my guess is that most folks don't see it the way that you do.
 
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I live in Southeastern MA and don't deal with any of that. $100 a yr to shoot outdoor or indoor 24x7. Also can bring guests as long as you don't abuse it. And there are multiple choices of ranges to join just around here.

Look harder.
 
As far as indoor ranges, Original Bob's in Salisbury is fully public (no license required if you bring a buddy). Guys in the shop are pretty cool too. Also, not in Mass, but Granite State in Hudson NH is public as well (and allows up to .308 in the range)
 
Too expensive? Are You kidding Me?
I belong to 2 clubs and the dues are the same at both $100yr, @ $8 a month. That's like one less trip to starbucks
 
7.62x39 said:
Too expensive? Are You kidding Me?
I belong to 2 clubs and the dues are the same at both $100yr, @ $8 a month. That's like one less trip to starbucks
Click to expand...
Same here. 2 clubs and I can bring guests to both. One club guests are free and the other club charges $1 per guest. SO for $20 a month I get 24X7 indoor range access, IDPA/Action Shooting pit usage, rifle , skeet, trap, archery and a stocked trout pond!! I never run into more than 2 or 3 people on the range and the GREAT majority of them are fun people.

Also I do in fact volunteer for work parties at both clubs.... that is how the work gets done and the costs remain low.

Oh.. I forgot to mention ... one of the clubs has a great kitchen and you can get an OUTSTANDING breakfast for under $5 Sat/Sunday mornings.
 
Clubs are generally pretty darn cheap, and they are much cheaper than for-profit ranges. The one downside of clubs is that, yes, since they are run by volunteers you can only join typically once a month. Big freaaking deal. [rolleyes]

Put on your big boy pants and join a club. You only have to do this once.

Given the cost of real estate in eastern MA, it is actually pretty darn incredible that there are outdoor ranges like Braintree, Mass Rifle, Woburn Sportsmen's, Reading Rifle and Revolver, etc so close to the city. There is no way a for-profit range could be built and run in those locations. Their land is worth millions.

So I really don't understand what you are bitching about.
 
SigSlinger508 said:
Ive grown increasingly frustrated with the way alot if the gun culture folks here in MA deal with actually shooting and training with our firearms. As far as I can tell, the only "public" indoor ranges are Mass Firearms School in Holliston and American Firearms School in North Attleboro. MFS has indoor ranges but you can't shoot any rifle calibers there. AFS, which I have not yet been to, supposedly allows rifle calibers in their ranges but is even more expensive to "join" and even a membership means discounts on renting a firearm you want to try rather than open access like at MFS. Other than those places, you gotta join some private club that costs even more money and has a whole inconvenient vetting process like once a month and then you have to make time when you aren't working to go to do work there if you dont want to pay even more dues. AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE?! I am very confused as to why we as a group who already has to deal with such restrictive gun laws have not tried or have purposefully made it even more expensive and difficult to just GO SHOOT and train. We aren't really doing ourselves any favors here. They way we win is by introducing new people who show any interest to firearms, whether it be for hunting, competition, plinking, or self defense purposes. When I can bring a guest only twice a year to one of these private clubs it pretty much rules them out. I enjoy introducing friends and family to firearms, and I enjoy being able to take friends shooting without having to pay out the nose (as if this isn't expensive enough already). If we keep making it more restrictive, exclusive, travel restrictive, and expensive to shoot the numbers of people picking it up without having it handed to them as children will dwindle. I don't really think we can afford not to actively try to introduce new people to firearms and try to grow in support in this state. Just my two cents. Im sure some guys will rip me apart and some will say just move up to New Hampshire or something, and thats fine, I just wanted to vent and see if anyone else here sees what I see and feels how I feel or if I am alone in this.
Click to expand...

Dude, how about some line breaks?

My club cost $150 a year ($2.88 a week) to be a member (not including discounts for showing up to work days.) The membership dues cover basic maintenance, utility bills, property taxes, insurance, etc - basically just the bare minimum to keep the doors open. That's just how much it costs, and it's really not that much when you think about it. Skip one cup of coffee a week and you've paid your dues.
 
Most clubs cost more money for just the first year when you need to pay the initiation fees etc. but even then, it's still cheap. And yes many clubs require you attend a club meeting for initiation etc but it's one day out of your life. If you can't make the work/cleanup parties to save money on dues - who cares, just pay up. It's not like you'll get a free membership if you attend these events.

You make it sound like your taking out a mortgage to join a club...

My club costs $125 a year, although they went up to $140 this year which I'm not sure is permanent as they did some paving at the outdoor range.
 
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There is one other thing that I forgot to say about clubs.

Even though I am not the most gregarious person in the world in the last 6 months I have met people at my club(s) that have let me fire their guns :

An "real" MG42 - although it was a semi-automatic "neutered" version
Browning Automatic Rifle
1863 Sharps Carbine 50-70
Singer 1911-A1
German Luger WWII "bring back"
WWII SA Garand
Desert Eagle 50 AE
Several high end AR-15 and AR-10 rifles

In turn I have let several people fire my 1971 6 inch blue Colt Python.
 
derek said:
+1 I don't understand rants like the OP. Some people simple have no grasp of reality.
Click to expand...

It's a rant against reality. I am old enough to have learned to shoot outside of a Club atmosphere, by osmosis, from my dad. That's pretty much not possible in this neck of the woods, anymore. Though, using my Club, I've done my best to do the same for my kids.
 
Machines said:
So has Bob's changed in the last couple years or are you still taking your life into your hands going in there?
Click to expand...

I was there 3 years ago and it was still unsafe then. Unless they've made some changes there, like having a range safety officer on the firing line at all times, I wouldn't recommend that place to anyone.

My experience there convinced me to join a club.
 
Taunton says you can bring guests but if they come often enough for the board members to know them, it's time for them to get a membership

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk
 
A few observations
1. To expensive to join: often I hear this from people as they sip off their extra large DDs Ice coffee with a pack or two of cigaRettes in the pocket and often they are on the way to the bar.
2. Clubs need money. Although the 4 clubs I have belonged to have dropped mandatory work hours and just raised dues. When you do finally join and IF you actually go often enough you will see it's the same people day in and day out keeping things going.
3. Also you will see it's usually the same 10% or less members actually using the club. Also you will see a low percentage of members showing up for meetings or elections.
4. There's the high percentage of members who only join to get their license if a town requires a club membership.
5. Your average club will be less than 200$ a year. Go often and it pans out.
6. I use my cash back rewards on my gun stuff. Smart with the credit cards you can actually make a few bucks. I also cash in cans , scrap metal, sell on eBay , yard sales. What ever it takes to make that extra 300-1200$ a year I need to enjoy shooting.
I also buy my own reloads off myself so I have money to replenish my inventory when it runs low

I will add this.....
There are generally enough open to public events at most clubs for your guest to attend.
I always recommend non members to attend an event of some sort. Those that will attend events generally are more likely to become members. If your bringing guest especially repeat visitors it's time for them to join.
If you look around hard enough there are enough open to public events that you could never pay a membership fee.

So go to a few clubs that have breakfast or dinners open to the public and poke around.
 
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SigSlinger508 said:
Ive grown increasingly frustrated with the way alot if the gun culture folks here in MA deal with actually shooting and training with our firearms. As far as I can tell, the only "public" indoor ranges are Mass Firearms School in Holliston and American Firearms School in North Attleboro.

MFS has indoor ranges but you can't shoot any rifle calibers there. AFS, which I have not yet been to, supposedly allows rifle calibers in their ranges but is even more expensive to "join" and even a membership means discounts on renting a firearm you want to try rather than open access like at MFS.

Other than those places, you gotta join some private club that costs even more money and has a whole inconvenient vetting process like once a month and then you have to make time when you aren't working to go to do work there if you dont want to pay even more dues.

AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE?! I am very confused as to why we as a group who already has to deal with such restrictive gun laws have not tried or have purposefully made it even more expensive and difficult to just GO SHOOT and train.

We aren't really doing ourselves any favors here. They way we win is by introducing new people who show any interest to firearms, whether it be for hunting, competition, plinking, or self defense purposes. When I can bring a guest only twice a year to one of these private clubs it pretty much rules them out.

I enjoy introducing friends and family to firearms, and I enjoy being able to take friends shooting without having to pay out the nose (as if this isn't expensive enough already). If we keep making it more restrictive, exclusive, travel restrictive, and expensive to shoot the numbers of people picking it up without having it handed to them as children will dwindle.

I don't really think we can afford not to actively try to introduce new people to firearms and try to grow in support in this state. Just my two cents. Im sure some guys will rip me apart and some will say just move up to New Hampshire or something, and thats fine, I just wanted to vent and see if anyone else here sees what I see and feels how I feel or if I am alone in this.
Click to expand...

Join a private club. There are a ton of clubs outside of the 128 belt that are cheap and don't have retarded rules. Clubs with guest rules? you're going to the wrong places. Get outside the ****ing 128 belt and away from the fudd madness.

Lol @ "move to new hampshire" its actually harder to shoot up there right now unless you have a back-40 style range to use, most of the clubs worth joining in NH are bricked out or wait listed.

-Mike
 
spcantwell said:
Taunton says you can bring guests but if they come often enough for the board members to know them, it's time for them to get a membership

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This is how I ended up joining my latest club....I currently have memberships at 2. I was shooting trap,sat Morings open to public as I began to know more shooters it starts....you a member, you should be , why not join.....not in a rude or pushy way by any means. Clubs servive on membership.

Anyone care to guess the upkeep on a 100 acre club with club house 3 ranges?
SE MASS.....well its no secrete most clubs post cost on a bulletin board.
Some clubs have cost reducing means.....one club is a registered tree farm and gets a property tax break.
 
mac1911 said:
Anyone care to guess the upkeep on a 100 acre club with club house 3 ranges?
SE MASS.....well its no secrete most clubs post cost on a bulletin board.
Some clubs have cost reducing means.....one club is a registered tree farm and gets a property tax break.
Click to expand...
The one club that I am familiar with has a "keep the lights on" cost of about $30,000 a year. If you actually want to use the shooting range add about $12,000 for air filters and if you actually want to use the club and park cars in the winter add another $8000 for snow removal. SO you are talking in the neighborhood of $50K annual in keep the lights on cost. This will of course vary quite a bit depending on taxes, air filtration, etc. and if something breaks!!!! THe other thing to keep in mind is that bullets really chew things up! IF you spend a couple of years just shooting you'll pretty much wear the facility out... Backstops, baffles, rubber, berms, no sky's , target holders/hangers, etc... so if you just try and "keep the lights on" you are not going to be open for long.
 
slap shot said:
I live in Southeastern MA and don't deal with any of that. $100 a yr to shoot outdoor or indoor 24x7. Also can bring guests as long as you don't abuse it. And there are multiple choices of ranges to join just around here.

Look harder.
Click to expand...
+1
 
OK ladies, maybe the OP's rant is covered in BBQ sauce for the NES grille; but I do understand where he's coming from.


Once you get away from the east, there are many states with low daily fee public ranges. Some states even have a wide selection of wilderness areas open to plinking. I've even seen unattended (and free) state owned 'ranges' with backstops. I grew up in small town California and was just as likely to be walking around with a gun as a football or baseball mitt. We could take off for hours into the hills and run ourselves out of ammo. Tennessee didn't have the open land like that, but there were a few places to go shoot without having a membership or paying through the nose.


I lived in Missouri for a couple years as a young adult and had quite the range nearby. There's no better way to develop range etiquette & safety than to regularly shoot at a state owned range run by a retired Marine Gunny. IIRC it was ~ $2-$3 per day to go shoot and anyone with a MO drivers license (and a thick skin) could shoot. LOL, the range had a P.A. system but the Gunny didn't need it.


That said, the $80 / year I pay for my club is probably less than I spent at the state range when I was 21- and that was a long f-ing time ago. I seriously doubt there's a patch of dirt in Mass that is more than 20 minutes away from a range or club. There is such a sh!t-ton of ranges and clubs here that there is no reason to bitch about not having a place to shoot. Since moving here I'm shooting much more than I have in a long time & I have found some fantastic guns to spend money on. Given all the clubs, the variety of matches almost every weekend, and proximity to the NES shoots, I'm having a friggin' awesome time here as far as shooting goes.
 
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slap shot said:
I live in Southeastern MA and don't deal with any of that. $100 a yr to shoot outdoor or indoor 24x7. Also can bring guests as long as you don't abuse it. And there are multiple choices of ranges to join just around here.

Look harder.
Click to expand...
If you dont mind me asking, which club?

- - - Updated - - -

7.62x39 said:
Too expensive? Are You kidding Me?
I belong to 2 clubs and the dues are the same at both $100yr, @ $8 a month. That's like one less trip to starbucks
Click to expand...
Haha dont assume I go to starbucks! What clubs?
 
Jeez. I get it, many people have disposable income that I dont have at the moment. Thanks to everyone who was helpful and gave recomendations. Everyone who thought it was cool to be a d1ck is adding to my arguement that it should be nocer and easier to try and get more people to join us. Idk why you woukd waste your time typing out something to say that just makes you come off as a jerk...as I said thanks to everyone else who was helpful.
 
SigSlinger508 said:
Jeez. I get it, many people have disposable income that I dont have at the moment. Thanks to everyone who was helpful and gave recomendations. Everyone who thought it was cool to be a d1ck is adding to my arguement that it should be nocer and easier to try and get more people to join us. Idk why you woukd waste your time typing out something to say that just makes you come off as a jerk...as I said thanks to everyone else who was helpful.
Click to expand...

You specifically asked for feedback: "Am I taking crazy pills?" We gave you feedback. Now you are bitching that you didn't like the feedback.
 
M1911 said:
You specifically asked for feedback: "Am I taking crazy pills?" We gave you feedback. Now you are bitching that you didn't like the feedback.
Click to expand...

This.

Also, OP, your points of discussion are not new - this has come up before...once or twice [laugh]

A lot of stuff in the PRM is not what we would like. We have the legacy of almost 400 years of growth and urbanization: every scrap of land is owned by someone with a vested interest in it. Would it be nice if you could wander down to the local sandpit and mag dump? Sure. But, the reality is that to do this, you need your own sandpit. Somewhere where the neighbors will not call 5-0 for shots fired.

Now - when you get your sandpit, please let us know when the range-warming party will be.

Until you PM me, I'll visit Southborough Rod and Gun Club www.southboroughrodandgun.com, except for tomorrow, when I'll be at a Trap shoot in Royalston.
 
MisterHappy said:
This.

Also, OP, your points of discussion are not new - this has come up before...once or twice [laugh]

A lot of stuff in the PRM is not what we would like. We have the legacy of almost 400 years of growth and urbanization: every scrap of land is owned by someone with a vested interest in it. Would it be nice if you could wander down to the local sandpit and mag dump? Sure. But, the reality is that to do this, you need your own sandpit. Somewhere where the neighbors will not call 5-0 for shots fired.

Now - when you get your sandpit, please let us know when the range-warming party will be.

Until you PM me, I'll visit Southborough Rod and Gun Club www.southboroughrodandgun.com, except for tomorrow, when I'll be at a Trap shoot in Royalston.
Click to expand...

To the OP:

There was a time ~30 yrs ago when I had permission to shoot at a locally owned sandpit. So I went down there to investigate. Tons of dirt bike tracks on the "dunes" along with spent shotgun shells and debris on the ground. The fear of letting rounds go and having some kid come down the hill on a dirt bike is what convinced me to take a "thanks but no thanks" approach to this and just continue using the gun club I belonged to. No regrets to this day.

If you found a sandpit somewhere, you'd have to be very cognizant of any trespassers using it for other purposes and crossing the berm while you are shooting. Much safer to use the almost 200 gun clubs we have in the state instead.
 

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