Borrowing a handgun over a state border

[JackO]

Can a friend from another state (say, NY) let me borrow his handgun, would it be legal? Obviously, the gun has to be delivered to MA. So, say, a friend is visiting me here in MA, he has a non-resident MA LTC and brings a handgun with him. Can he legally leave the gun with me for some time and let me use it provided I have a valid MA LTC?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes!

 

[JackO]

LenS, thank you.
Now let's modify the question.
Can I go to visit a friend in, say, NH, borrow his Handgun, and bring it over a state line to MA? Again, I assume I have a NH nonresident LTC. So the question is, is it legal for me to cross a state line with borrowed gun?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes!

 

[RKG]

In both cases, though, I would prepare and have the parties execute a contemporaneous document to the effect that custody only was being given for a stated purpose (evaluation, testing, something of the sort) and no transfer of title was intended or effected. Document should contain an undertaking by the bailee (legal term for the person holding property of another) to the bailor on or before a date stated.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Take the lawyer's advice (thanks RKG)!

ALWAYS good to document such things, that way if anyone dies, or inthe event of any other odd occurrence, clear proof of ownership exists. True not just for guns. [e.g. Many years ago, my late Father had sent the clock in his car to a repair shop. The shop went bankrupt and he had to "buy back" his own clock or lose it . . . they assume that everything in the shop is an asset owned by the shop unless you can readily prove otherwise.]

 

[matt1956]

So... can you "Borrow" a firearm that is not MA legal and bring it into MA as long ast the afore mentioned steps are taken?

And if that friend dies... (not wishing any ill will here) you may keep said firearm?

 

[Len-2A Training]

You can borrow any firearm as long as it doesn't violate the AWB (long guns) or new hi-cap mag ban. Where it came from is irrelevant. Keep in mind, NO handguns are "banned" in MA, the restrictions are SOLELY on what a MA DEALER can sell/transfer here.

I've heard/read many stories of folks who regularly hunt with a family member in a state where they don't live. Some of these folks leave their hunting guns with the relative (could be just a friend) at the out-of-state location closest to where they hunt together. NOT an issue at all. [Covering with "paper" as RKG suggested is always wise, however.]

If anyone dies, it is the job of the Executor of the Estate to determine who gets what (unless laid out in a Will) and distribute the Estate accordingly. So no, you don't automatically keep the gun unless this was agreed to by the deceased party in advance and written somewhere as such or the Executor grants you the gun as part of the distribution of the Estate.

Searching the Gun Laws forum for more info should turn up a lot more on this sort of subject.

 

[Jay G]

So, then, if a friend living in NH were to buy a nice little Kel-Tec P3AT and let me borrow it for a period of, oh, 20 - 30 years, that would be legal?

Interesting.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yup.

 

[AMV]

Ok, What about registering it with the state of Ma, Is there need to do this if borrowing, or long term loaning a firearm?? Any laws broken regarding interstate transfer, or possession of an unregistered firearms in the state on Ma?

 

[Len-2A Training]

FA-10 ONLY on transfers. Borrowing is not a transfer, as ownership stays with person who loaned it to you. That's another reason to get the whole thing written down and signed.

 

[Moderator]

FA-10 ONLY on transfers. Borrowing is not a transfer, as ownership stays with person who loaned it to you. That's another reason to get the whole thing written down and signed.

Per form FA-10. The documentation reads "Firearms sale/Rental/Lease Transaction Form". Could borrowing a gun also be interrupted as Rental or Leasing?

 

[joncalibur]

I'm not a lawyer, but I think the terms rental/lease imply some monetary amount being exchanged for the usage or fee of what is being loaned. I think in the case of "borrowing" that is being described, as long as no money is changing hands, it does not apply.

just my .02

Jon

 

[RKG]

So, then, if a friend living in NH were to buy a nice little Kel-Tec P3AT and let me borrow it for a period of, oh, 20 - 30 years, that would be legal?

Interesting.

Probably, indeed, almost certainly not.

It is hardly surprising that the law will look through the nominal form of a transaction that was used to hide the parties' real intent. So a 20-30 year bailment, snicker, snicker, would be treated for state law (property) purposes as a transfer of title, and as such would implicate firearms regulation under both state and federal law.

 

[matt]

So, then, if a friend living in NH were to buy a nice little Kel-Tec P3AT and let me borrow it for a period of, oh, 20 - 30 years, that would be legal?

Interesting.

a straw purchase by any other name...

 

[Mach]

Chapter 140: Section 129C. Application of Sec. 129B; ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition; transfers; report to executive director; exemptions; exhibiting license to carry, etc. on demand


Section 129C. No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.

No person shall sell, give away, loan or otherwise transfer a rifle or shotgun or ammunition other than (a) by operation of law, or (b) to an exempt person as hereinafter described, or (c) to a licensed dealer, or (d) to a person who displays his firearm identification card, or license to carry a pistol or revolver.

A seller shall, within seven days, report all such transfers to the executive director of the criminal history systems board according to the provisions set forth in section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and in the case of loss, theft or recovery of any firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, a similar report shall be made forthwith to both the executive director of the criminal history systems board and the licensing authority in the city or town where the owner resides. Failure to so report shall be cause for suspension or permanent revocation of such person’s firearm identification card or license to carry firearms, or both, and shall be punished by a fine of not less than $200 nor more than $1,000 for a first offense and by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $5,000 for a second offense.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses:



I think the registration requirement includes 'loans' unless I'm reading the wrong section.


http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129c.htm

 

[Len-2A Training]

The term "loan" here just requires showing a proper license for possession of the gun. Implies nothing wrt to transfer paperwork for loaning a gun (NO consideration/payment in play) temporarily to someone. Otherwise every rental at places like AFS would require an FA-10 form, wouldn't it?

 

[Mach]

Thats a good point. It just seemed to me when it says " all such transfers" it is making reference to the paragraph requireing a permit above that states "No person shall sell, give away, loan or otherwise transfer ".

But you made a good point. thanks

 

[Len-2A Training]

IANAL, but I will repeat here "advice" that Chief Ron Glidden gave out numerous times when the MAF list was a useful tool.

He said that especially with Family members in other states, that they could allow you to do a long-term borrowing (NO transfer/title change) of handguns that otherwise can't be sold by MA Dealers. This was usually in discussion wrt to inheritance where the intent was that the older family member intended to leave it to you in his/her will, but would now allow you to borrow it in advance. Since Ron usually checked out all legalities with the legal staff at EOPS, I'm making the ass-u-me-ption (sic) that he did so on this advice also. Worth noting is that some legal opinions did change when Sec. of Public Safety changed over the years (and the legal staff was also changed), so who knows what opinion one would get today?