Braintree is a complete disgrace.

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With members that can't keep their rounds on the berm......yup. But in HHRG club's defense the "neighbors" have been after closing that club for decades.

All clubs neighbors want the club to close. Some are organized and some aren't organized YET.

All clubs have morons. The next time you are on an indoor range, look up at the overhead baffles. There will be bullet impacts surprisingly close to the firing line.
 
All clubs neighbors want the club to close. Some are organized and some aren't organized YET.

All clubs have morons. The next time you are on an indoor range, look up at the overhead baffles. There will be bullet impacts surprisingly close to the firing line.
this-is-why-we-cant-have-nice-things-.jpg
 
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They do have their issues. When you are that close to neighbors and under that much pressure from the town, you often have to make difficult choices. And sometimes when you have fossilized leadership, the club gets into a rut and has a lot of blind spots. On the other hand, they are probably close to a lot of people. I love Harvard Sportsmens, but if you live in Braintree HSC is a haul. So you can bitch and leave or help and fix.

I don't dispute that these clubs have considerable challenges WRT moonbats and housing encroachment. This isn't even about ROs being required... The thing I'm talking about is the administrative legacy malaise that also seems to permeate these places. It doesn't take long to find people at these places that have made considerable efforts to "stay and help fix things" only to get turned away or blown off by the fudd cabal, etc, for whatever reasons. I'm not going to name names, but it doesn't take long to find a handful of clubs in the eastern half of the state that have this kind of disease... and the member base tolerates it "because it's close to my house" and usually these facilities have one or two aspects of them (such as halfway decent indoor ranges) that keep people signing up.

-Mike
 
Yes, it is often a problem. But when the same 10 people do all the work at the club (and have been doing all the work for years), and no one shows up to the meetings, let alone runs for office, it isn't a surprise.

It won't change unless people get involved. That requires getting up from behind the keyboard, attending meetings, going to work parties, etc.
 
Yes, it is often a problem. But when the same 10 people do all the work at the club (and have been doing all the work for years), and no one shows up to the meetings, let alone runs for office, it isn't a surprise.

It won't change unless people get involved. That requires getting up from behind the keyboard, attending meetings, going to work parties, etc.

Some of the malaise I'm talking about though has involved kicking out people that do a lot of the work (or running events/providing revenue for the club) because the "entrenched cabal" types think that those people are a threat to their positions. I've seen this happen at least three times in the past 3 years or so with eastern MA clubs. (you probably already know which ones they are, I'm not going to out them here to avoid re-opening the drama factory on those incidents.... ) .

-Mike
 
Some of the malaise I'm talking about though has involved kicking out people that do a lot of the work (or running events/providing revenue for the club) because the "entrenched cabal" types think that those people are a threat to their positions. I've seen this happen at least three times in the past 3 years or so with eastern MA clubs. (you probably already know which ones they are, I'm not going to out them here to avoid re-opening the drama factory on those incidents.... ) . -Mike
That happens, but I think it happens less often than simply the leadership does things the way they always have simply because they have no new blood.
 
That happens, but I think it happens less often than simply the leadership does things the way they always have simply because they have no new blood.

Sometimes they get new blood but then those guys encounter resistance. The new blood then goes elsewhere after not wanting to deal with the BS. These are political cabal problems endemic to the clubs. For example a club out here in central MA has had like 4 different range chairmans for pistol and rifle ranges in probably 6 years.... each time they get a new guy the new guy either gets pissed off at the administration, gets frustrated with the administration, or when the guy starts to make progress at his post, gets "encouraged" out of the position. This is because the" wingshooting cabal" controls the whole club and if you're not in perfect lockstep with those guys, you're not getting anything done.

The only way this will ever change at those places is if the defective people in question (who are usually one or two powerbrokers) either die off or leave, or a bunch of members essentially stage a bloodless coup of sorts by picking one of these people off at election time. This is incredibly difficult to do at most clubs. From some of the stuff I hear you would think that Kim Jong Un etc. runs some of these clubs. I know people who have been successful in such ventures, but it often requires a long term commitment to change things.

-Mike
 
From what I understand they had to institute ro rules due to a neg discharge that hit a building off property. Unfortunately some clubs need "adult supervision" just to stay alive.

I guess you like to make things up!

I've posted the real reason at least a dozen times here in the past (including ~2 days ago), don't bother to read it though as it won't fit your agenda.

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.45ACP bullets broke 2nd story window (last incident) and outer walls (also high up) on Carradonna's warehouse, 660 yds from firing line of pistol range. Police, NRA range expert, etc. all said that it didn't come from the range but most likely was from an encroachment on the RR right-of-way and using the building as a "backstop"! NRA range expert report stated that no outdoor range should operate without ROs, so ergo we were stuck with putting ROs on the range. Less than a handful of ROs ride herd on shooters. We'll correct those that point guns other than down range, etc. but that is it. One or two are hardasses and it is easy to just avoid their shifts.


I think that was an allegation that many believe was incorrect.

The unfortunate reality for clubs in crowded neighborhoods is that they often face situations where they have to accept a bad solution or face being shut down. Does it suck to have ROs? Yes. But it would suck worse if the outdoor range was shut completely and that is probably the choice that they faced.

You are correct in both cases.
 
The last good thing to come out of Braintree was John Adams.
 
It looks to me like the OP was disrespected by the pres for a legitimate complaint. I think it's legit to call him out on it.
This.
There is a difference between a legitimate complaint and a cheese event.


Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk
 
I guess you like to make things up!

I've posted the real reason at least a dozen times here in the past (including ~2 days ago), don't bother to read it though as it won't fit your agenda.

---------------

.45ACP bullets broke 2nd story window (last incident) and outer walls (also high up) on Carradonna's warehouse, 660 yds from firing line of pistol range. Police, NRA range expert, etc. all said that it didn't come from the range but most likely was from an encroachment on the RR right-of-way and using the building as a "backstop"! NRA range expert report stated that no outdoor range should operate without ROs, so ergo we were stuck with putting ROs on the range. Less than a handful of ROs ride herd on shooters. We'll correct those that point guns other than down range, etc. but that is it. One or two are hardasses and it is easy to just avoid their shifts.




You are correct in both cases.
You assume way too much. Also there is no agenda other than to point out to a few people here that hate ROs as to why clubs enact them. I was simply stating that "it was my understanding".....perhaps I should have said it was "claimed" that a negligent discharge caused a bullet hit a building. I did not say it was confirmed that the bullet came from Braintree.......I was saying that Braintree enacted ro in reaction to a bullet hitting a building off property........never said that enacting the ros was wrong. In fact I claim clubs have to enact them when these things happen wether they want to or not, If you read through my posts you will see that I posted about hhrg enacting a ton of rules and infrastructure based on allegations of many stray bullets. Only some were confirmed. Problem here is that it does not matter if confirmed or not.......public opinion prevails......clubs have to react to stay open......and that reaction in many instances is ro rules. HHRG........DID have stray bullets landing near houses in 2005 and again in 2012.....some were confirmed.....some were antsy neighbors that thought woodpecker holes were bullet holes.......some of these were from people that obviously needed "adult supervision" including a police team that used a stationary metal target holder on the center fire pistol range which most people not needing adult supervision would know is a definite ricochet threat (hell even cops need adult supervision[rolleyes]) ............hence the post about "this is why we can't have nice things".

If you listen to what I'm saying I'm defending club enactment of ROs. In some cases they are needed for the survival of the club.
 
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Frigging NRA strikes again.

The NRA range experts they sent up to BR&P were guys from NJ! To me that explains the reaction they had when informed that the club allowed unsupervised shooting.

Sad, but we're stuck with it since it was in their written report.
 
Posting per request of BR&P club president:

Much has recently been posted to Northeast Shooters web site regarding the Braintree Rifle & Pistol Club. The web site, and its forum, potentially serve a purpose to inform your members interested in firearms and shooting. Recently, however, much has been written bashing the BRPC. While differences of opinions are legitimate, falsehoods and outright lies are not.

Firstly, as president, I do not respond to e mails generally. The response received by a member regarding being unable to shoot when a CMP match that was being held and not on the club calendar is a legitimate complaint, had that actually been the case. Either way, the response allegedly received by this individual, and as coming from me, is not accurate.

The club goes to great lengths to maintain and update the calendar. Being a volunteer organization, sometimes things slip by. BRPC has over 6000 members currently. It costs upward of $300,000 per year to run the club, not including capital improvements. The executive board works diligently to maintain the property and see to it that the ranges function properly and safely. The result is what I would argue is the best shooting facility in Massachusetts. We have two indoor ranges open 24/7 with automatic target carriers and a state of the art HVAC systems. We have a rifle range with targets at 50 and 100 yards, and two pistol ranges, including a small plinking range. The club has a trap field and an archery field. BRPC has one of the largest juniors programs for kids ages 11 to 18. We also host the North Quincy Air Force Jr. ROTC. BRPC has a Pistol Team and a Rifle Team and an active CMP program. Those certified as instructors teach and certify hundreds of new shooters each year.

While many will argue which is the best club, and there are some great clubs in Massachusetts, certain facts reported in Northeast Shooters about BRPC warrant correction.

1. The club has never had a bullet leave the property. Allegations were made some years ago about bullets hitting a building to the rear of our 87 acres. At that time we requested the NRA Range folks conduct an investigation. The NRA response was excellent and I encourage all clubs to take advantage of their Range program. What they found was that persons had been trespassing on our property, despite the fact that is fenced. Apparently access was gained from the railroad tracks to our West. No bullet from our ranges has ever been proven to have struck or landed on property beyond our property lines. Any so called “verified” report is simply untrue.

2. The NRA made several recommendations regarding such things as berms, placement of targets, operating procedures and a host of other things. Work was performed to upgrade the ranges. As such, our ranges are designed so that a bullet cannot leave our property
provided persons shoot from the designated areas. While we like to believe that all members would abide by our rules and regulations to insure safety on the ranges, as they say, one bad apple can spoil the bunch, or in this case get the club CLOSED. The range officer program was started to insure the rules are followed, as well as assist shooters and in my opinion, all involved do an outstanding job. Allegations that RO’s asked for the serial numbers off of someone’s magazine are simply untrue as are several posts in Northeast Shooters about the RO’s. What is a fact is that RO’s volunteer for 3 hour shifts, sometimes multiple times per week. Our RO’s insure that our ranges remain open and operate safely. They are there to, and do, help members. Under the guidance of Chief RO Joe Norman, over half our RO’s are NRA certified.

3. Despite our property being abutted by apartments to our west and houses to our north, BRPC has NEVER received a neighbor complaint. Even when construction was anticipated at the club part of the permitting process was to notify neighbors and obtain signatures. Our neighbors have been very supportive of the club because we have considered them in our operating hours. BRPC supports several teams, the historical society and we are active in town events.

4. While several of the comments on Northeast Shooters have been directed at me personally, I feel compelled to briefly respond. I am more than happy to speak with or meet with anyone interested in the BRPC as well as listen to and address legitimate complaints about the club. While I may not agree with you, I will always listen. Anyone who has attended a member’s meeting or the annual meeting can confirm this fact.

5. As for my profession, yes, I am an attorney and quite proud of that fact. My practice is varied. I represent insurance companies and their insured’s, like you, who have been sued. I have successfully defended several gun clubs in Massachusetts. Through my firm, I represent members of various police departments facing disciplinary issues and before internal affairs and firearm discharge boards. I also handle personal injury matters, criminal cases and cases involving firearms licensing/revocation. I practice in both State and Federal Courts and have tried hundreds of cases. As I said, a varied practice. It’s funny how many people dislike lawyers….until they need one.


I have no doubt that this response will result in additional comments. I hope that they will be positive and constructive. The BRPC is an excellent facility. Personal attacks should be banned and erased from the Northeast Shooters Forum.

Respectfully,

Eric S. Goldman, President of the Braintree Rifle & Pistol Club.
 
You can't prohibit members from drawing from a holster, then claim to be THE best club in the state. It doesn't work that way.
 
The NRA range experts they sent up to BR&P were guys from NJ! To me that explains the reaction they had when informed that the club allowed unsupervised shooting.

Sad, but we're stuck with it since it was in their written report.

how long ago was that though?? There has to be a way to get past it and have a new recommendation that says no RO necessary?? Maybe Everyone as a member is trained as a RO??
 
Posting per request of BR&P club president:

If Mr Goldman is saying that he did not send those emails, He is a liar. I will post his email address and HIS responses by way of screenshots. If he did not send the emails I would like a sit down face to face with him and the person who DID send those emails. If Mr Goldman was so concerns about my allegations then why did he not contact me? Why? Because he is a liar.
 
Capture.JPG first email.JPG 2nd email.JPG

They speak for themselves.
1-A screen shot of my internet based in box (with a Facebook's friend's name covered).
2-The first response from Mr. Goldman. FROM HIS EMAIL ADDRESS AND FROM HIS PHONE.
3-My response to Mr. Goldman's first email (exactly as I wrote in my posts)

Mr Goldman is lying.
 
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how long ago was that though?? There has to be a way to get past it and have a new recommendation that says no RO necessary?? Maybe Everyone as a member is trained as a RO??

I don't really recall but best guess is probably 10 yrs ago for the first time that created the issue. I never saw the report, but was told about the contents by our CRO.
 
backpeddle calendar posting..JPG
At least the CMP program is not being listed on the club's calendar. AFTER the fact!

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backpeddle calendar posting..JPG
At least the CMP program is not being listed on the club's calendar. AFTER the fact!
 
I'm not going to get into whether the responses from either of you were appropriate or not.

You can either try to meet with Eric face to face and discuss it, quit the club and find one more to your liking (probably best alternative) or just post rants here on NES which will accomplish nothing.

If it makes you feel better I agreed a long time ago with you that some regular events (including CMP) aren't on the calendar and should be. Eric even acknowledged that in what he asked me to post above. AFAIK, Eric does NOT control the calendar, it is another volunteer (who I am not certain).

Eric simply asked me to post what he wrote and sent to me and I cut and pasted it from the Word Doc he sent me. I take no position on who is more right or more wrong (other than the calendar issue I addressed above).
 
I'm not going to get into whether the responses from either of you were appropriate or not.

You can either try to meet with Eric face to face and discuss it, quit the club and find one more to your liking (probably best alternative) or just post rants here on NES which will accomplish nothing.

If it makes you feel better I agreed a long time ago with you that some regular events (including CMP) aren't on the calendar and should be. Eric even acknowledged that in what he asked me to post above. AFAIK, Eric does NOT control the calendar, it is another volunteer (who I am not certain).

Eric simply asked me to post what he wrote and sent to me and I cut and pasted it from the Word Doc he sent me. I take no position on who is more right or more wrong (other than the calendar issue I addressed above).

No offense but Your position is welcomed because this is a semi public forum but ultimately doesn't change the situation. I made my motives clear in my second post which is to make sure that the Mr Goldman's reaction and conduct (as the president of the braintree gun club) be shared with anyone who might be thinking about joining the club.

Mr Goldman has not once tried to contact me by email or phone. He has all of my contact information.
 
I love it when I guy posts a reasonable complaint. At first.

But then he does not know when to quit.

Keeps going on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

Enough already, you made your point. Get over it! The world does not exist to make you happy . . . .
 
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