Braintree Rifle and Pistol Club

[Gillham]

I guess you never read Post # 142?

Aye, Sorry. It's been a long week. I'm going to go down and check it out this weekend. I suppose it's seeing heavy use these days because steel is fun to shoot?!

ETA: although 25 yards, or 59' whichever it is, is quite the reach for IDPA style pistol shooting - so maybe this is geared more towards the pistol competition folks.

To clarify, by IDPA style pistol shooting - I mean (more) practical, 21+ feet, double taps - or the like.

 

[righteousbarbarian]

I'll be attending the new member orientation bright and early tomorrow morning. If you're there, say hello to a guy in a wheelchair and if you're lucky it will be me.

 

[not new guy]

Have there been any policy changes in the last year or so regarding multiple guests? It used to be that you could ask permission via the online form and get a response pretty quickly, usually approving it and reciting a few policies. I had asked maybe twice in the past 5 years, but my latest request to bring a couple of new shooters went unanswered. I wouldn't think anything of it except that I could swear I saw some new signs about multiple guests the last time I was in the clubhouse.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Have there been any policy changes in the last year or so regarding multiple guests? It used to be that you could ask permission via the online form and get a response pretty quickly, usually approving it and reciting a few policies. I had asked maybe twice in the past 5 years, but my latest request to bring a couple of new shooters went unanswered. I wouldn't think anything of it except that I could swear I saw some new signs about multiple guests the last time I was in the clubhouse.

You should have read the signs.

I've been a member for almost 17 years and the rules on guests hasn't really changed, but the enforcement has. The club president is adamant that disobeying this rule will be used to throw people out of the club. I will tell you that not every RO is adamant at demanding proof. Permission is granted on a single use only. It is easy to get from the CRO by Email (bring it with you if an RO asks to see it). If you don't have it we are told to send you home. I have yet to be a hardass about it but personally have decided NOT to bring guests to this club (my other club is a lot less restrictive on this).

WRT an online request, the webmaster gets all those Emails and is a volunteer with other things going on in his life too. So he might not get to it for a day or so and when he does he sends your request off to someone else who may also not respond immediately. Going direct to the CRO is the best and fastest way to get what you need. Planning in advance helps, but isn't always possible. Also the CRO is <almost> always at the club every afternoon so you can see him in person if needed.


http://www.brp.org/BRPCRules/tabid/1769/Default.aspx#Guest_Policy

XI. GUEST POLICY

1. Each member is allowed one (1) shooting guest per month. Exceptions can be made with prior permission of the chief range officer, assistant chief range officers or a member of the executive board.
2. The member must directly supervise and coach the guest at all times. No exceptions!

3. No member is allowed to let more than one guest shoot at a time.

4. A member and their guest are allowed use of one (1) shooting station only.

5. Members are responsible for the actions of their guest. If the guest violates any club rule, the member will be held responsible.

6. Arrangements can be made for special groups with the chief range officer, assistant chief range officers or a member of the executive board. A member's spouse and children under the age of 18 can come anytime, with the member

[If it isn't obvious, I also don't like the strictness of this policy, but I don't get to create club policy.]

 

[not new guy]

You should have read the signs.

I've been a member for almost 17 years and the rules on guests hasn't really changed, but the enforcement has. The club president is adamant that disobeying this rule will be used to throw people out of the club. I will tell you that not every RO is adamant at demanding proof. Permission is granted on a single use only. It is easy to get from the CRO by Email (bring it with you if an RO asks to see it). If you don't have it we are told to send you home. I have yet to be a hardass about it but personally have decided NOT to bring guests to this club (my other club is a lot less restrictive on this).

WRT an online request, the webmaster gets all those Emails and is a volunteer with other things going on in his life too. So he might not get to it for a day or so and when he does he sends your request off to someone else who may also not respond immediately. Going direct to the CRO is the best and fastest way to get what you need. Planning in advance helps, but isn't always possible. Also the CRO is <almost> always at the club every afternoon so you can see him in person if needed.


http://www.brp.org/BRPCRules/tabid/1769/Default.aspx#Guest_Policy


[If it isn't obvious, I also don't like the strictness of this policy, but I don't get to create club policy.]

Thanks, Len. I did read the signs, I just remember them looking new, so I was wondering if the exceptions/permissions were being granted less frequently than they had been historically. In any case I think the trip is getting scrubbed due to schedules and weather, so no issue.

In my experience the responses to online requests has always been surprisingly fast. No complaints there at all.

 

[June4th]

I've been a member for almost 17 years and the rules on guests hasn't really changed, but the enforcement has. The club president is adamant that disobeying this rule will be used to throw people out of the club.

It is unfortunate. Previously, I've taken 2-3 first-time shooters to the club at a time, without anyone bothering me much but the enforcement has definitely gotten much stricter in recent years. I never abused the system by bringing the same people repetitively. I always believed the macro-economics is that more shooters=stronger pro-RKBA support, and the micro-economics is more shooters=more members potentially for BRP.

I've heard other clubs have an informal policy, that 'if club members start to know your guests on a first name basis, it's time for them to pay the dues'. I don't know if BRP's good grace was ruined by a few bad apples, but I felt getting chewed out by a few raged RSO's because I brought two guests without a permission slip was a bit excessive.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It is unfortunate. Previously, I've taken 2-3 first-time shooters to the club at a time, without anyone bothering me much but the enforcement has definitely gotten much stricter in recent years. I never abused the system by bringing the same people repetitively. I always believed the macro-economics is that more shooters=stronger pro-RKBA support, and the micro-economics is more shooters=more members potentially for BRP.

I've heard other clubs have an informal policy, that 'if club members start to know your guests on a first name basis, it's time for them to pay the dues'. I don't know if BRP's good grace was ruined by a few bad apples, but I felt getting chewed out by a few raged RSO's because I brought two guests without a permission slip was a bit excessive.

The president apparently thinks that some were abusing the privilege. I also heard rumor of some people bringing lots of guests during later evening hours and also causing some damage in the indoor range. These events seem to be the motivating factors for the new push on enforcement of the policy.

If your Son is one of them, you are thus only bringing one guest (under the policy) as family members don't count against that restriction (only the one position and direct supervision applies to family).

There are less than a handful of ROs that use the iron fist approach to the rules. The rest of us use common sense.

 

[qqac]

The president apparently thinks that some were abusing the privilege. I also heard rumor of some people bringing lots of guests during later evening hours and also causing some damage in the indoor range. These events seem to be the motivating factors for the new push on enforcement of the policy.

It's not mere rumor. I was at the new range late one night when another member brought a small group of apparently inexperienced friends to shoot and failed to supervise them. The member went out of the range with some of the friends and left one of them shooting away on the line. She experienced a jam and, with a bemused grin on her face, muzzle swept me as she was trying to figure out what to do. (No, she was not hot enough to excuse getting shot by her.) I promptly exited the range and had a word with the other member before leaving. It's bad when a member is the one who has to leave and can't use the range for his own safety.

 

[not new guy]

(No, she was not hot enough to excuse getting shot by her.)

I have yet to run into one of those at BRP.

 

[cthorne98]

Did I read somewhere that there are steel targets on the long distance pistol range now? Has anyone tried those out? Do we know what distance they're at - pretty sure I remember reading that they can't be moved. Hope it's not at the far end of the capacity of the range

The steel targets are great - lots of fun. They are about 59 feet . I would be nice if a couple were on the rifle range as well. They are on chains so I dont think they can be moved. There are also some cans of orange paint to touch them up - they were white for a while and now they are orange. I have 4-5 cans of yellow I'm going to drop off this weekend. Touch them up and have at it.

 

[Serapis]

It is unfortunate. Previously, I've taken 2-3 first-time shooters to the club at a time, without anyone bothering me much but the enforcement has definitely gotten much stricter in recent years. I never abused the system by bringing the same people repetitively. I always believed the macro-economics is that more shooters=stronger pro-RKBA support, and the micro-economics is more shooters=more members potentially for BRP.

I've heard other clubs have an informal policy, that 'if club members start to know your guests on a first name basis, it's time for them to pay the dues'. I don't know if BRP's good grace was ruined by a few bad apples, but I felt getting chewed out by a few raged RSO's because I brought two guests without a permission slip was a bit excessive.

Safety is everyone's responsibility. You should have said something to her.



Sent from my mobile phone from behind enemy lines.

 

[qqac]

Safety is everyone's responsibility. You should have said something to her.



Sent from my mobile phone from behind enemy lines.

Yes and no. If you start with telling her one point of safety, where do you stop? I was not there to give her a full course of instruction, nor to supervise her. Plus, why would she listen to me, a complete stranger? How would she know I have any clue myself? And what if she accidentally shot herself or me while I was saying something to her? No, I met my safety responsibility by telling her friend, the sponsoring member who took her there, and by telling the exec bd., and leaving the area of risk.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Just received an Email.

Middle (steel) and Short Pistol Ranges will be closed today for some repair work.

Everything else is open and all should be open again tomorrow.

 

[Scarab440]

Just received an Email.

Middle (steel) and Short Pistol Ranges will be closed today for some repair work.

Everything else is open and all should be open again tomorrow.

I know this is old.. but I have to say the steel range is really fun to shoot at!

 

[Aaron[MA]]

I know this is old.. but I have to say the steel range is really fun to shoot at!

Yes! I used it for the first time about a week ago. Figured I'd try it then move down to the far (short dist) pistol range. Wound up using all the ammo I brought on the steel plates. Good stuff

 

[cthorne98]

Adding some at the rifle range would be awesome- the pistol range is fun and the plinking range is also good if you haven't tried it yet

 

[not new guy]

You should have read the signs.

I've been a member for almost 17 years and the rules on guests hasn't really changed, but the enforcement has. The club president is adamant that disobeying this rule will be used to throw people out of the club. I will tell you that not every RO is adamant at demanding proof. Permission is granted on a single use only. It is easy to get from the CRO by Email (bring it with you if an RO asks to see it). If you don't have it we are told to send you home. I have yet to be a hardass about it but personally have decided NOT to bring guests to this club (my other club is a lot less restrictive on this).

WRT an online request, the webmaster gets all those Emails and is a volunteer with other things going on in his life too. So he might not get to it for a day or so and when he does he sends your request off to someone else who may also not respond immediately. Going direct to the CRO is the best and fastest way to get what you need. Planning in advance helps, but isn't always possible. Also the CRO is <almost> always at the club every afternoon so you can see him in person if needed.


http://www.brp.org/BRPCRules/tabid/1769/Default.aspx#Guest_Policy


[If it isn't obvious, I also don't like the strictness of this policy, but I don't get to create club policy.]

So I never did hear back from anybody at BRP. I ended up going to the range by myself on a Friday afternoon and the outdoor ranges were closed anyway, so it's just as well since the guests were only interested in shooting outside.

This is the sign I was talking about, and the reason why I was asking if there had been any recent changes. The "No Exceptions" part is what caught my eye. Does the phrase mean that no exceptions will be granted, or is it just an attempt to emphasize how strongly they feel (while accidentally giving the impression that they don't grant any exceptions)?



I assume it's just for emphasis since it contradicts what's posted in the bylaws/rules.

Exceptions can be made with prior permission of the chief range officer, assistant chief range officers or a member of the executive board.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The sign was the president's idea. Exceptions are made by the CRO, that's who to address (directly to his Email).

 

[not new guy]

Thanks (again) Len.

 

[bsaks]

What is the guest policy as it relates to significant others? My gf lives with me and we have a domestic partnership. Would we need two memberships if she wanted to come occasionally?

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[MAGG]

cannot remember but I think you are allowed one guest a month possibly but I do not know if that excludes significant others..LenS will be along shortly I am sure with the correct answer as I realize I added nothing to your question .

 

[Len-2A Training]

cannot remember but I think you are allowed one guest a month possibly but I do not know if that excludes significant others..LenS will be along shortly I am sure with the correct answer as I realize I added nothing to your question .

I'm not sure that my answer is correct, but I'll try.

I KNOW that spouse, children, Family that lives with you are exempt from the restriction wrt 1/month. Unmarried SOs, even if you live together are a gray area and I know do NOT qualify for spouse membership (I asked for someone else a number of years ago). That said, I doubt that any RO is going to ask for a marriage certificate!

All said, they have to sign in as guests & wear a guest badge (even if married to the SO) AND only one of you can shoot at a time, using only 1 lane. Those rules don't change due to familial status.

 

[Gillham]

First time trying out the steel. Makes me want a 45 so I can really hear freedom ring. 9mm barely makes a ding, the SR22...well, if you don't see any dust, ya hit it..
Thanks BRP!


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[Len-2A Training]

First time trying out the steel. Makes me want a 45 so I can really hear freedom ring. 9mm barely makes a ding, the SR22...well, if you don't see any dust, ya hit it..
Thanks BRP!

You weren't the person with the VP9 I was talking with this morning are you?

 

[Gillham]

You weren't the person with the VP9 I was talking with this morning are you?

Nope - not me. I was there for only a half hour or so.. Maybe got there at 1700? Then I went inside and shot the 10/22 at the new clubhouse.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Nope - not me. I was there for only a half hour or so.. Maybe got there at 1700? Then I went inside and shot the 10/22 at the new clubhouse.

I was RO and left at 12:30 when the other 1/2 of my team arrived.

 

[cthorne98]

I sent an e-mail and was told family was included in the 1 guest am Not sure if that has changed but I used to take both my boys down to shoot at the same time but no longer do that. Its a shame Family isn't excluded from the rule. I don't take ether now since having to choose one over the other. The rule is the rule and I follow it - although I see plenty of groups at the club in the last several weeks doing training etc... last week there was 8 people in with one member taking their BPC and just hanging out in the old club house. Although I didn't notice them all signed in as guest. I guess it all depends who follows the rules and who doesn't.

 

[Len-2A Training]

AFAIK, that is not true. Send an Email to the Chief Range Officer ONLY. Joe will know the correct answer to this. I never hassle family members, but only one person can shoot at a time and you are only supposed to use one shooting position. But if it isn't crowded, I don't enforce that.

As an Instructor we were told to have all guest sign in, that includes our students and family members. One instructor today had his students show up and they didn't sign in, I saw that, but enforcing that in the classroom is not part of my job.

 

[Gillham]

AFAIK, that is not true. Send an Email to the Chief Range Officer ONLY. Joe will know the correct answer to this. I never hassle family members, but only one person can shoot at a time and you are only supposed to use one shooting position. But if it isn't crowded, I don't enforce that.

As an Instructor we were told to have all guest sign in, that includes our students and family members. One instructor today had his students show up and they didn't sign in, I saw that, but enforcing that in the classroom is not part of my job.

How much do the RO's enforce the 33 ft yellow like rule at the indoor range (if ever)? It was me and another member and his guest. They were shooting considerably closer than the yellow line.

I understand why the line exists, and I'm guilty of stopping just short of the yellow line by a few feet - but these guys were at least 10 ft away.

I didn't feel comfortable enforcing it since it wasn't a safety concern and their rounds were making it to the backstop.


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[Len-2A Training]

We don't spend much time patrolling the indoor ranges. I will oftentimes do a walk-thru of both indoor ranges but for-instance I didn't do that today.

I have spoken to people about that before.

On the other hand, NRA suggests 15' to start off a new shooter (it's in the Instructor's book for NRA BP) to get them on paper. A long time ago I spoke with the CRO about it and he said it is OK for instructors to do this with students until they are competent at hitting the paper. That said, he has not told that to all the ROs. More recently the president has "mandated" that nobody shoot closer than the lines marked out on the ranges, no exceptions. To make matters worse, the new range lighting keeps the targets in the dark unless you are at 33' or 50' (plus 75' in the new range) so it would make it difficult for the student or instructor to see the holes in the paper at other distances anyway.

I just don't teach at BR&P, the setup is unfair for the students!