Budget Bill and Pepper Spray

ntomsw said:
Who gives a shit.

Buy it in a free state and bring it in. I am so sick of the pussy footing around in this country.

My father does not have guns and never will, but I told him to buy some pepper spray at the very least. Too many scum bags out there. Try and protect yourself somehow. He did, and he lives in MA.

**** Massachusetts.
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This.
Amen.
+1
 
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JJ4 said:
I distinctly remember Naughton at the AIC hearing last August telling the crowd to stop bringing up pepper spray because we're going to do it, it's going to get fixed.
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Yup. Same thing I remember him saying at that hearing. That was almost a YEAR AGO!
 
Just another joke of a law in Massachusetts, I dont wish harm on anyone but the reality of the situation is that these people that make these asinine laws would change their tune if they or a loved one became a victim. That being said I 100% do believe pepper spray is a false sense of security for any woman who feels safe by carrying it, unless you have ever deployed it you dont realize how difficult it really is to succesfully deploy it, and in a close quarters quick reaction scenario it would be next to impossible to do so against a motivated attacker.
 
Squib308 said:
The fact that there are ANY laws pertaining to pepper spray indicates this state is FUBARed.

might as well have laws on mustard, can openers and condoms.
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Honestly, if I didn't believe that this inept policy leads to more young women raped and possibly murdered, I would say that the fact that pepper spray requires the same permit as to own a shotgun is a good thing, b/c, hey, why not by a shotgun or rifle?! This would make more gun owners and highlight what cluster fark MA is with respect to all laws. EVEN IN CA YOU CAN BUY THIS SHIT OVER THE COUNTER AT A DRUG STORE!!

This shit is an embarrassment to even the Dems and makes MA even more of a laughing stock on the national stage.
 
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Just you wait...some asshat JBT will see an OC can in some woman's purse while she is looking for her license or on her keychain and lock her up. Then he be all high fiving his buds for the righteous felony collar....only here. Turn a blind eye LE because our legislature cares only for feeding their corruption and lining their pockets, not about doing their job. You have no idea how much this sickens me. "Done deal" my a$$.
 
VTHunter said:
Just like the folks who drive past the MADOT signs warning of 'fines and imprisonment' for possession of fireworks as they drive out of state to buy them, those in possession of pepper spray will not likely be charged. It's just another example of an unenforceable law. Try charging a woman (unlicensed) for using mace when she's being attacked and it will be a PR fiasco...
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Tell that to the college female student who got expelled a few years ago.
 
Mass doesn't care about it's citizens, the only thing this state cares about is control and the high up .gov type POS. The really sad part is half the people in this state don't care about there rights or who they vote in and are clueless on what is going on. They only look for the the D next to the name.
 
SHOCKNAWE said:
Just another joke of a law in Massachusetts, I dont wish harm on anyone but the reality of the situation is that these people that make these asinine laws would change their tune if they or a loved one became a victim. That being said I 100% do believe pepper spray is a false sense of security for any woman who feels safe by carrying it, unless you have ever deployed it you dont realize how difficult it really is to succesfully deploy it, and in a close quarters quick reaction scenario it would be next to impossible to do so against a motivated attacker.
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All maybe true, but......Still better than fingernails and/or a ridiculous "rape whistle" if your wife/daughter/mom is being attacked. Any "weapon" is better than no weapon.
Side note: My 17 year old daughter carries spray, but she also knows (thanks to "Daddy" LOL) that no matter what the situation, if there is any perceived threat, your FIRST thought must be (and with her, is!!) "weapon"! The Pepper Spray is just one choice, one option, one alternative, whatever.

I recently did a "practice scenario" with her. She actually loves doing them and realizes that practice and "aforethought" is critical in any "situation". The one thing I'm most proud of is her "awareness", situational awareness, observation skills, etc. Know a possible threat before it even becomes a threat, etc.

Last week we were sitting at the kitchen table eating lunch, discussing national events stuff (She DESPISES the Kenyan-in-Chief as much as Mom and Dad do [wink] ). She got up to refill her paper cup with water, and when she got up I purposely removed anything else from the end of the table we were at except my paper plate and half sandwich and the only other thing on the table was a CD (my wife's Justin Timberlake hits CD, but save the jokes cuz I''ve already used them all LOL). Her pepper spray was beside her purse, 30 feet (i.e. "too far") away.

When my kid sat back down, we began discussing life/situations etc again. As the conversation went on, I said "So, right now, if I'm not here and someone just tried to grab you, and I mean right now, this exact second, what would you think first?"

Her answer: "Weapon". (as Daddy has preached over and over)
I asked: "But...what?"
And immediately, and I mean literally in a split second, she gazed at the table, saw the CD and said "I'd break that in half and use the jagged edges as a knife and try for his face, then try to make my way over to the kitchen cabinet counter (about 5 feet from her chair) cuz I know there's some oven cleaner and some bug spray in there".

My overall point? Weapon of any kind better than Deval's or (Marty Walsh's) whistle.

My overall OVERALL point? How proud I am that my kid "gets it" and still listens to Dad, her "best friend". God I love my daughters (her AND her 26 year old sister, the one who carries a G26 or SW442 everywhere she goes....just like....OK, proud Dad, enough with the bragging!!)

Pepper spray, bug spray, windex, whatever. "Weapon" is better than "no weapon".

(PS: +1 to your post)
 
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Chevy 2 65 said:
Mass doesn't care about it's citizens, the only thing this state cares about is control and the high up .gov type POS. The really sad part is half the people in this state don't care about there rights or who they vote in and are clueless on what is going on. They only look for the the D next to the name.
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More MA voters are Independents than Dems by far: 51% to 36%. There is opportunity for the right candidate. But as long as the Republican party is under control of Christian fundamentalists, their candidates will have an uphill battle in New England.

Back to the purported topic, what exactly is the status of this change given GOAL's post?

5/21/14 Update: Yesterday the Senate released their version of the pepper spray bill. It is unnecessarily convoluted and confusing.

While we are grateful to be moving forward in a positive direction, we are disappointed that a simple trip from point A to point B has become a route full of obstructions, detours and re-writes.

The good news is that the Senate bill, passed yesterday changes pepper spray/mace so that it is no longer classified as ammunition.

The bad news is that it needlessly creates a new category, "defensive sprays" (will they include wasp/hornet spray in the same category?) This gives universities etc... the ability to ban it categorically and needlessly. The bill also includes needless language making the sale of pepper spray/mace illegal, unless it is via a licensed firearms/ammunition dealer.

GOAL would like to remind everyone that pepper spray/mace can be legally purchased and possessed without any special license or permit in EVERY state in the country except Massachusetts. Pepper spray/mace should be sold the same way as any common insect repellent, making it any more difficult than that is needless nanny-state intervention.

We hope the legislature takes note and fixes this legislation before sending it to the governors desk.
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The "status" is that ONCE AGAIN the scumsucking, yellow, condescending, moonbat, liberal WINGNUT cowards under the Golden Dome that call themselves Reps and Senators and Governor, probably thought about it again (in yet another hush-hush backroom wink-wink "deal" like the ones that the fat cowardly swine DeLeo routinely brokers) , said to themselves "Well, I'm in charge here", removed it from the budget bill (where it never should have been to begin with, but they knew it would "fly under the radar" more easily there (cuz most voters get bored with "budget" bills as if they were watching the financial news TV channel by mistake, quickly changing channels on the remote).. and instead gave the entire state - especially vulnerable women - a "rape whistle", and a picture/copy of their creed which they REALLY live by:
qybanezu.jpg
 
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garandman said:
But as long as the Republican party is under control of Christian fundamentalists,
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This fundamentalist control of the Republican party is costing it a huge amount of credibility, and is why I hold my nose when voting for Republicans. I overlook this aspect of the R's only because I am a single issue voter.
 
Reptile said:
I tried to google it.

What school?
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Now I'm struggling to find it. The story I remembered was a female student at maybe Harvard? Or BU? had mace on her keychain. Swiped the key fob to enter her dorm in front of a campus cop. Result was her being arrested. (And should have been expelled based on their policy at the time.)

Looking it up now.. and... my google and NES fu is failing me.

I know Lens is aware of a few cases of prosecution, but I don't know if those ended up in expulsion.

I also know personally of an incident with an MIT graduate student from out of state. (No NR LTC, no ability to get an FID.) who was detained, but released. I think she got lucky, and I recall the incident was at some other schools event.

At least WHOI provides in writing permission for anyone affiliated with the school to carry pepper spray. (It's in writing on the "Violence Policy".) However, there was some confusion as to whether that extended to MIT.
 
Reptile said:
I tried to google it.

What school?
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Good luck. Charges like these are the first to be dropped in favor of more solid violations. To think and act like this is unenforceable is ridiculous. Comparing it to fireworks is even more so.

Think about it. An officer in the process of jacking someone up on charges is going to pass over this?

"What it this? Breath freshener? Travel size hair spray? Ok then..."

Trust me this only happens in the movies. Or if your really, really lucky...[wink]
 
fshalor said:
Now I'm struggling to find it. The story I remembered was a female student at maybe Harvard? Or BU? had mace on her keychain. Swiped the key fob to enter her dorm in front of a campus cop. Result was her being arrested. (And should have been expelled based on their policy at the time.)

Looking it up now.. and... my google and NES fu is failing me.

I know Lens is aware of a few cases of prosecution, but I don't know if those ended up in expulsion.

I also know personally of an incident with an MIT graduate student from out of state. (No NR LTC, no ability to get an FID.) who was detained, but released. I think she got lucky, and I recall the incident was at some other schools event.

At least WHOI provides in writing permission for anyone affiliated with the school to carry pepper spray. (It's in writing on the "Violence Policy".) However, there was some confusion as to whether that extended to MIT.
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Putting my response in proper perspective:

- I worked PT as an Aux PO at a major Ivy League college in the Boston area for 7 or 8 years. Primarily worked in the dorms on Friday & Saturday nights checking students/guests into the dorm.
- Students had to show their college ID upon entering the building and there were 3 or 4 officers present in the lobby all the time.
- A very good friend was a FT PO at this college, he was the Det. Lt. in charge of Detectives and also the Prosecutor for college. He retired a few years ago after a 30+ year career there. They run a very professional PD, much better and more training than most municipal PDs (budget is never an issue - they get a ton of money from TV/radio rights for their sports teams).

A young lady had OC on her keychain along with her college ID when she entered one of the dorms. A number of us (officers) saw that. Somehow the FT Lt found out about it and I was grilled for "who is she, what room does she live in, etc.?" He made it clear that if he got the answers he was seeking she would be arrested/prosecuted and expelled from the college. I had a sudden case of amnesia . . . he wasn't happy with me but I couldn't help him jack up this young lady. My Det. Lt. friend (different person) has told me that he'd prosecuted many such cases over the years and won them (likely plea-bargained as most criminal cases are). However, when you are paying $30-50K/year for an education, your entire future relies on getting that diploma from a good school . . . the risk is HUGE! I will tell you that even if the charges are dropped, the administrative penalties (expulsion) is real. And applying to another college when you've been expelled from your previous prestigious college is not likely to get you a seat in any other good school!!

Even if the law changes and if C. 269 S. 10 is modified to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that OC is not ammunition or forbidden on school property . . . I do NOT expect the colleges (or high schools) in MA to change their administrative policies (which are used for internal disciplinary purposes)! To change this is going to be like "taking every hill" in a war, one battle at a time at each school across the Commiewealth!!!!
 
It's kind of difficult to lean on the schools to drop this stupid ban as long as the state is treating it on a level with, OMG gunz and ammo.
Being able to approach the school and saying "Look, even the state realized it was a dumb law" might help.
But seeing as this is MA. they F*cked it up like everything else they touch.
 
The college staffs seem to be enforcing this but many Boston PD officers are of the opinion that the law is retarded, and ignore it. They have daughters too.

Amy lord was abducted and killed on 7/24/13 so there is going to be renewed focus on this as the anniversary approaches.
 
garandman said:
The college staffs seem to be enforcing this but many Boston PD officers are of the opinion that the law is retarded, and ignore it. They have daughters too.

Amy lord was abducted and killed on 7/24/13 so there is going to be renewed focus on this as the anniversary approaches.
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I think that you will find most muni cops are not fast to jack a woman up on this. Campus cops on the other hand are much more likely to act differently.

Having been the former for 17 years and the latter for 7-8 years, I do see and understand the difference in thought process of both types of cops.
 
71montess said:
Except for LenS of coarse.;)
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Luckily for me I did not have to do normal campus cop duties. Our job in the dorms was pretty much that of "house mother" checking IDs and the uniforms gave a fake police presence. Since we had no police powers and nothing that could be used as an offensive or defensive weapon, it was just easy money (but the hours sucked) and neither look for trouble or give any of the students any grief. The one shift I did with a partner (newbie to us) that wanted to "bust heads" (he'd been an MP), I told the FT Lt. to NEVER partner me up with him again . . . he didn't last long anyway.
 
LenS said:
I think that you will find most muni cops are not fast to jack a woman up on this.
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Muni police leaders may be a different story.

If it seems like I'm being coy, I am. I have a story in this area that should have had battered women's organizations take to the streets in protest.
 
OfficerObie59 said:
Muni police leaders may be a different story.

If it seems like I'm being coy, I am. I have a story in this area that should have had battered women's organizations take to the streets in protest.
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There is a saying in LE circles that to become chief you first need to undergo a lobotomy. Having worked for 3 muni and 1 campus (IIRC he was retired MSP) chief I can readily concur with that assessment!
 
Campus cops are beholding to different overlords than muni cops and are part law enforement; part enforcer of school policy.
 

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