Colorado House Democrats Pass Bill Banning AR-15s and 9mm Pistols with Threaded Barrels

Broc said:
She didn't.

She wrote an interpretation.

Can we please stop talking about that stupid sh*t as if it was a law?
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yup, as soon as i can go to a gun shop and buy a "mass compliant" AK off the shelf

oh? what's that? no dealer in the state will touch an AR or AK (for we non-LEO types) after Maura's "interpretation?" gee... seems like her non-law had the desired effect.
 
Broc said:
but isn't MA trying to ban sales of semi auto rifles as well?
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Dont they ban the ownership of specifics, and ffls can still sell out of state or to police? Then we have the list of allowed handguns for sale here as well I guess

That was my understanding
 
inerlogic said:
yup, as soon as i can go to a gun shop and buy a "mass compliant" AK off the shelf

oh? what's that? no dealer in the state will touch an AR or AK (for we non-LEO types) after Maura's "interpretation?" gee... seems like her non-law had the desired effect.
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AKs were already banned before Maura’s BS. Dealers were just ignorant and decided that Maura had to make them stop when in reality, they were breaking the law for years.
 
inerlogic said:
yup, as soon as i can go to a gun shop and buy a "mass compliant" AK off the shelf

oh? what's that? no dealer in the state will touch an AR or AK (for we non-LEO types) after Maura's "interpretation?" gee... seems like her non-law had the desired effect.
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No dealer will touch an AR for non LEO? Is that a joke?
 
Dench said:
It's predominantly Democrat. The house is 46d to 19r. Their senate is 35d to 12r.
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So there were 3 abstentions. How many of the ones voting against it were Dems who had permission to in order to protect their seat if it's in a tight race? Did any Dem vote against because of actual convictions?
 
Blackmore said:
So there were 3 abstentions. How many of the ones voting against it were Dems who had permission to in order to protect their seat if it's in a tight race? Did any Dem vote against because of actual convictions?
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I have no clue what they are doing over there. It's hard enough to keep track of FL and MA!

[rofl]
 
inerlogic said:
yup, as soon as i can go to a gun shop and buy a "mass compliant" AK off the shelf

oh? what's that? no dealer in the state will touch an AR or AK (for we non-LEO types) after Maura's "interpretation?" gee... seems like her non-law had the desired effect.
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You have been here since 2008.
 
Joeldiaz said:
AKs were already banned before Maura’s BS. Dealers were just ignorant and decided that Maura had to make them stop when in reality, they were breaking the law for years.
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Which is why I bought my zastava pap brand new and transferred it thru 4 seasons back in 2011?

Maura didn't ban anything. Her edict was just a scare tactic geared towards MA chicken little gun shops who pee themselves as much as your regular NES member.
 
Da_lucche said:
Which is why I bought my zastava pap brand new and transferred it thru 4 seasons back in 2011?
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Yes, because the actual AWB (not Maura’s edict) bans all models of AKs. The fact that many dealers were unaware of that doesn’t change the law.
Da_lucche said:
Maura didn't ban anything. Her edict was just a scare tactic geared towards MA chicken little gun shops who pee themselves as much as your regular NES member.
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Agreed, which is why I said Maura’s edict didn’t ban anything.
 
Da_lucche said:
Which is why I bought my zastava pap brand new and transferred it thru 4 seasons back in 2011?

Maura didn't ban anything. Her edict was just a scare tactic geared towards MA chicken little gun shops who pee themselves as much as your regular NES member.
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Exactly! I called Carl out at the deli ticket emporium when it happened and he went full retart on me and even called me out in his weekly newsletter. I had the last laugh though when the Mill started selling. Sent him a follow up email and I got crickets from him. Don’t think I’m welcome there anymore.
 
DW357 said:
You sir need to get out more. Jesus Christ. I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’ve never visited the mill or know what the mill is

Do you only shop at Four Seasons or something?
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i've bought 4 glocks at the mill in the last 3 weeks and talked to several dealers up there. so, guess you don't know as much as you think you do.

If you know someone at the mill who'll sell me a post ban AK, PM me
 
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Joeldiaz said:
Yes, because the actual AWB (not Maura’s edict) bans all models of AKs. The fact that many dealers were unaware of that doesn’t change the law.

Agreed, which is why I said Maura’s edict didn’t ban anything.
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No the MA AWB specially banned "Avtomat Kalashnikov" and "Colt CAR15" rifles, among others, by NAME. Because of this, the ban did not pertain to any of the copies or duplicates of those baseline platforms...hence why people were still buying AK "variants" and Colt CAR 15 "variants" long after the AWB and long before Maura's edict - in which hers specifically and purposely went after those "copies" and "duplicates" of the originals named in the MA AWB.

Four Seasons did not mistakely transfer me a Zastava PAP because they "didn't know". It was transferred to me because since it was not an actual "Avtomat Kalashnikov" rifle - only a variant of the original platform - it was and still is totally legal to do so.
 
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Da_lucche said:
No the MA AWB specially banned "Avtomat Kalashnikov" and "Colt CAR15" rifles, among others, by NAME. Because of this, the ban did not pertain to any of the copies or duplicates of those baseline platforms...hence why people were still buying AK "variants" and Colt CAR 15 "variants" long after the AWB and long before Maura's edict - in which hers specifically and purposely went after those "copies" and "duplicates" of the originals named in the MA AWB.

Four Seasons did not mistakely transfer me a Zastava PAP because they "didn't know". It was transferred to me because since it was not an actual "Avtomat Kalashnikov" rifle - only a variant of the original platform - it was and still is totally legal to do so.
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Have you even read the MA AWB? It says:


''Assault weapon'', shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70); (iv) Colt AR–15;

As you can see, it enumerates ALL AK models as assault weapons, whereas only Colt ARs are banned. That’s why you can have non-Colt AR-15s that aren’t copies or duplicates, but the same is not true for AKs.
 
Joeldiaz said:
Have you even read the MA AWB? It says:


''Assault weapon'', shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70); (iv) Colt AR–15;

As you can see, it enumerates ALL AK models as assault weapons, whereas only Colt ARs are banned. That’s why you can have non-Colt AR-15s that aren’t copies or duplicates, but the same is not true for AKs.
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No when it says "all models", the bill is enumerating all models or variants specifically attached to the original Avtomat Kalashnikov (Type 1, Type 2, Type 3, AKS, AKM, etc etc), not every AK variant or copy produced by a separate entity (Cugir, Zastava, Arsenal, Norinco, etc)
 
Maybe we should start passing laws against abortions that use scalpels or ultrasounds. You know, because no one NEEDS those things to have an abortion.
 
Joeldiaz said:
AKs were already banned before Maura’s BS. Dealers were just ignorant and decided that Maura had to make them stop when in reality, they were breaking the law for years.
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This is ridiculous. I know it’s been talked about here before. But it’s not true.

It wasn’t just MA dealers selling feature compliant AK variants. Feature compliant AKs had been for sale for the entire duration of the federal AWB. The MA ban references the federal ban’s text. The ATF did not restrict those AK sales and you know damn well they would have if they could have. They were all on top of writing very detailed rules on what muzzle devices and magazines were legal, and what you could do to pre-ban mags, etc. AKs were available and legal.
 
PappyM3 said:
This is ridiculous. I know it’s been talked about here before. But it’s not true.

It wasn’t just MA dealers selling feature compliant AK variants. Feature compliant AKs had been for sale for the entire duration of the federal AWB. The MA ban references the federal ban’s text. The ATF did not restrict those AK sales and you know damn well they would have if they could have. They were all on top of writing very detailed rules on what muzzle devices and magazines were legal, and what you could do to pre-ban mags, etc. AKs were available and legal.
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You're wrong, thanks for playing. AKs are a named rifle, and included in the text was (all models), the only reason ARs have been legal is the only named one was the Colt and didn't have the parenthesis after it. Just because a dealer does something and doesn't get prosecuted for it, does not make it legal. If I missed anything, I'm sure @CrackPot will jump in.
 
VTski4x4 said:
You're wrong, thanks for playing. AKs are a named rifle, and included in the text was (all models), the only reason ARs have been legal is the only named one was the Colt and didn't have the parenthesis after it. Just because a dealer does something and doesn't get prosecuted for it, does not make it legal. If I missed anything, I'm sure @CrackPot will jump in.
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I use the term “AK” loosely. There are tons of AK type rifles that aren’t technically AKs.

I’m not talking about dealers selling them in MA and not getting in trouble with MA. As those examples apparently aren’t good enough.

I’m talking federally.

Please explain how feature compliant AK-type rifles were widely available from 1995-2004 with zero issues from the ATF, despite having the exact same AWB text. The ATF was VERY active in stipulating precisely what was legal and what wasn’t according to the text of the AWB (which is the exact same text as the MA ban).
 
PappyM3 said:
This is ridiculous. I know it’s been talked about here before. But it’s not true.

It wasn’t just MA dealers selling feature compliant AK variants. Feature compliant AKs had been for sale for the entire duration of the federal AWB. The MA ban references the federal ban’s text. The ATF did not restrict those AK sales and you know damn well they would have if they could have. They were all on top of writing very detailed rules on what muzzle devices and magazines were legal, and what you could do to pre-ban mags, etc. AKs were available and legal.
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First of all, why are you reply to my post from almost a month ago trying to start trouble?
PappyM3 said:
I use the term “AK” loosely. There are tons of AK type rifles that aren’t technically AKs.

I’m not talking about dealers selling them in MA and not getting in trouble with MA. As those examples apparently aren’t good enough.

I’m talking federally.

Please explain how feature compliant AK-type rifles were widely available from 1995-2004 with zero issues from the ATF, despite having the exact same AWB text. The ATF was VERY active in stipulating precisely what was legal and what wasn’t according to the text of the AWB (which is the exact same text as the MA ban).
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The MA AWB directly references the Federal AWB. Assault Weapon is defined as “shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994..." then it contains an incredibly tiny amount of language directly copied from the federal AWB, specifically the exclusions and the enumeration.

There’s one, and only one, very distinct and important difference between the federal AWB & the MA AWB. MA version says "Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models)". Federal version says "Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (AKs) (all models)"

What this means is you cannot make a feature compliant post-ban AK under the MA AWB, although it was fine federally as long as it was not a Norinco, Mitchell or Poly Tech. This distinction went into effect 1998 so there is a window between September 13th, 1994 & some date in 1998 where the federal AK rules were in effect.
 
Joeldiaz said:
First of all, why are you reply to my post from almost a month ago trying to start trouble?


The MA AWB directly references the Federal AWB. Assault Weapon is defined as “shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994..." then it contains an incredibly tiny amount of language directly copied from the federal AWB, specifically the exclusions and the enumeration.

There’s one, and only one, very distinct and important difference between the federal AWB & the MA AWB. MA version says "Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models)". Federal version says "Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (AKs) (all models)"

What this means is you cannot make a feature compliant post-ban AK under the MA AWB, although it was fine federally as long as it was not a Norinco, Mitchell or Poly Tech. This distinction went into effect 1998 so there is a window between September 13th, 1994 & some date in 1998 where the federal AK rules were in effect.
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1: Not starting trouble, just disagreeing

2: Replied to your month old post because it’s still relevant and this thread got bumped

3: Thank you for the detailed info and the reasoning why people say AK type rifles are banned in MA.

I can see where you’re coming from.

The problem, in my view, with this logic lies in the fact that it’s not just Colt AR-15s that are banned in terms of AR-15s. It’s also copies and duplicates. So, using the same logic you’re using with “Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models)”, we wouldn’t be able to have any ARs. They’d all be copies and duplicates.

Just the same as all the AK type rifles seem to be copied or duplicates to you. But they’re not. The “Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK)” is a very specific rifle, and one’s made in the USSR and Russia. And all its models are specific as well. So, the MA law bans the following: AK-47, AKM, AK-74, AK-103, and their copies and duplicates.

If we use the same meaning of copy and duplicate that has been used from 1994 to 2016, then Avtomat Kalashnikov copies and duplicates would be a very strict understanding, including only other manufacturer’s versions with all the same features as the Avtomat Kalashnikov.
 
Joeldiaz said:
First of all, why are you reply to my post from almost a month ago trying to start trouble?


The MA AWB directly references the Federal AWB. Assault Weapon is defined as “shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994..." then it contains an incredibly tiny amount of language directly copied from the federal AWB, specifically the exclusions and the enumeration.

There’s one, and only one, very distinct and important difference between the federal AWB & the MA AWB. MA version says "Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models)". Federal version says "Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (AKs) (all models)"

What this means is you cannot make a feature compliant post-ban AK under the MA AWB, although it was fine federally as long as it was not a Norinco, Mitchell or Poly Tech. This distinction went into effect 1998 so there is a window between September 13th, 1994 & some date in 1998 where the federal AK rules were in effect.
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you would have to entirely ignore the differences in variants of "ak" style rifles if that were the case.
 

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