Calif. to Mass. -- Gun Purchase and LTC strategy

[calsdad]

In the meantime, what's the best way for me to understand what's actually available for purchase in Mass?

If I've read correctly, such guns must be on the published EOPs list and on the unpublished AG's list. And the only real way to determine which are on both lists is to see what the local shops are selling?

So, are there some local Mass gun shop websites that would give good visibility into what's available? I found the Four Seasons site in Woburn for example. Any recommendations for other sites?

I'm starting my handgun collection from scratch for reasons outlined in my "introduce yourself" email. So I'm not forced to bring anything with me...it's more a matter of pent up demand for certain brands/models versus the pain of dealing with an LTC application under a deadline. As one poster said, I don't want to neuter my LTC application unnecessarily...

Ha, ha...also, I would love to engage in some handgun arbitrage by buying MA-unobtainable models low in CA and selling high in MA. Unfortunately, CA limits purchases to one a month!

Since CA limits purchases to one a month - you had better get crackin..


MA still basically has the Federal AWB in effect. So as previous posters have said - post ban (1994) high cap mags in both pistols and rifles are verboten.

The AWB means that rifles with flash hiders, bayonet lug, and adjustable stocks are verboten - unless they are pre-ban. There is no "bring it in with me" provision.

For pistols there are two lists of what is legal. There is MA law legal list of all the pistols that are legal for MA residents to own under the AWB. This list is available online and there are numerous threads here on NES referencing it ( I am being lazy or I would find it for you.) . Essentially any pistol on this list is legal for you to own in MA, but.....

there is a caveat.

There is another list - the AG's approved gun roster which limits what you as a civilian can purchase from a dealer. It does not limit what law enforcement can purchase and it does not limit you as a MA citizen from owning or purchasing pistols not on the list in a face to face transaction. Glocks for instance are not on the AG list in any form. But we can buy pre-ban Glocks (because they are on the MA state approved list) and we can buy 3rd Gen Glocks from law enforcement officers in face to face transactions. I have 4 3rd Gen Glocks I have purchased from LEO's.

As a MA citizen you can sell 4 firearms per year in face to face transactions. If you had a bunch of non-AG approved firearms you wanted to sell in MA you COULD go thru a dealer - but they would only be able to sell them to a LEO.

If I was you I and I wanted to make some money I would figure out what pistols are in high demand in MA - but are not on the AG list. HK's might be one. Those FN pistols with the 5.7x28 calibre round are going for big bucks in the classifieds here on NES. Recently Glock 30's have been put up for $900.00

All of the above is what you can do legally. I have heard tales of people selling far more than 4 firearms per year in face to face transactions - and tales of dealers who will either sell or transfer pretty much anything you want. MA law is screwed up - and so is the enforcement.


Look in the MA law section of this site and you should be able to find links to the latest AG approved list and the MA approved roster. Maybe somebody helpful will come along and post them here.

 

[Cherokee_Outlaw]

Way back when I moved back from CT to MA, MA had some pretty strict rules on what constituted residency . . . in their favor of course.

If you took a job in MA and weren't commuting from out of state to that job, they considered you a resident from the get-go as I recall (memory could be a bit fuzzy, this was in 1974). They wanted you to have MA (higher $$) insurance on your car, tags, DL, etc. immediately.

Yup.. MA "wants" you to have a lot of stuff.. they even "want" NH stores to collect sales tax.

He was pulled over a few times.. no issues what so ever. Heck if it wasn't for him buying a car back in 2006 he would still have his out of state lic.

 

[JT1]

Thanks guys. Yes, I'm beginning to realize how convoluted the Mass. laws are. That said, I'm trying to look at it as glass-half-full: At least, CCW will be a possibility if I pick the right Green zone. In CA, it's largely impossible if you're in proximity to metro areas.

Meanwhile, I'm going to begin strategizing on what to do with my evil pocket knife, the one with a 2.75" blade and assault-style inlays...

 

[Cherokee_Outlaw]

Thanks guys. Yes, I'm beginning to realize how convoluted the Mass. laws are. That said, I'm trying to look at it as glass-half-full: At least, CCW will be a possibility if I pick the right Green zone. In CA, it's largely impossible if you're in proximity to metro areas.

Meanwhile, I'm going to begin strategizing on what to do with my evil pocket knife, the one with a 2.75" blade and assault-style inlays...

I do have to say this about Mass.. It pains me to say this so bare with me..... *deep breaths*

Once/IF you get a LTC-A ALP.. they trust you to carry just about anywhere. Excluding Schools/Federal Court Houses.. You can carry in Bars, Restaurants with Bars etc.

Places like Oklahoma/Texas are pretty relaxed in giving out LTC but it comes with a book of where you can and cannot. Lunch at a TGIF in Houston? NOPE...

So buy your dream guns NOW... grab your LTC-A ALP and your be ok.

 

[Len-2A Training]

For pistols there are two lists of what is legal. There is MA law legal list of all the pistols that are legal for MA residents to own under the AWB. This list is available online and there are numerous threads here on NES referencing it ( I am being lazy or I would find it for you.) . Essentially any pistol on this list is legal for you to own in MA, but.....

there is a caveat.

There is another list - the AG's approved gun roster which limits what you as a civilian can purchase from a dealer.

If you had a bunch of non-AG approved firearms you wanted to sell in MA you COULD go thru a dealer - but they would only be able to sell them to a LEO.

If I was you I and I wanted to make some money I would figure out what pistols are in high demand in MA - but are not on the AG list.

I know that you are trying to be helpful, but I'm afraid that the mis-information here is going to confuse more than help!

- There are NOT two lists of what is LEGAL to OWN in MA! There is not even one list of what is legal to own in MA . . . thankfully. As long as a handgun/rifle does not fit the "AWB", you are free to own it in MA (and bring it with you when you move in). Post-ban hi-cap mags are verboten however (just to go full circle and avoid mis-understanding).

- There NEVER has been and likely never will be any AG List of guns! The Regs say that there should be such a list, but none has ever been created and since the AG's goal is to limit/eliminate as many guns from ownership as possible, they are never likely to issue an "approved list". There is no penalty for the gov'ts failure to abide by the rules/regs/laws . . . only penalties for subjects who disobey these things.

- Dealers can sell guns that aren't compliant with the AG Regs (or grandfathered) to buyers outside the state (transferred to FFLs elsewhere) freely, so they do have a larger market than strictly selling to MA LEOs. They can also sell guns not on the EOPS List (or grandfathered) outside the state via FFL transfer, MA LEOs can't legally buy guns that aren't on the EOPS List (or grandfathered).

I hope we haven't thoroughly confused the OP here.

 

[dreamer]

Commuting to Boston from southern NH is quite reasonable if you use the bus system. It's nothing like buses in California. The Boston Express bus I used to take was largely filled with financial types, though that may have been influenced by my hours.

With the current markets, you may even find someone to rent to you short term if you look around enough, and could hop straight from CA to NH and avoid MA residency completely.

It may have changed since 2003, but I found my move from CA to Taxachusetts to have a nearly identical draw from my income once I got used to the different ways each state had to reach into your pocket.

 

[JOHNNY P]

You will find that Mass is a lot like the former Soviet Union

 

[calsdad]

I know that you are trying to be helpful, but I'm afraid that the mis-information here is going to confuse more than help!

- There are NOT two lists of what is LEGAL to OWN in MA! There is not even one list of what is legal to own in MA . . . thankfully. As long as a handgun/rifle does not fit the "AWB", you are free to own it in MA (and bring it with you when you move in). Post-ban hi-cap mags are verboten however (just to go full circle and avoid mis-understanding).

- There NEVER has been and likely never will be any AG List of guns! The Regs say that there should be such a list, but none has ever been created and since the AG's goal is to limit/eliminate as many guns from ownership as possible, they are never likely to issue an "approved list". There is no penalty for the gov'ts failure to abide by the rules/regs/laws . . . only penalties for subjects who disobey these things.

- Dealers can sell guns that aren't compliant with the AG Regs (or grandfathered) to buyers outside the state (transferred to FFLs elsewhere) freely, so they do have a larger market than strictly selling to MA LEOs. They can also sell guns not on the EOPS List (or grandfathered) outside the state via FFL transfer, MA LEOs can't legally buy guns that aren't on the EOPS List (or grandfathered).

I hope we haven't thoroughly confused the OP here.

If you haven't confused him - you surely confused me. I was trying to give him an idea of the law the way I have understood it - if I was wrong, sorry for the confusion.

But you are making a good point - if unintentionally: nobody seems to be able to figure out what the freaking laws really are.

Would it be simpler to say there are guns you can bring into the state and sell or buy face to face - and there are guns that have to be vetted by the AG before they can be sold by dealers?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, that would be a fair assessment.

 

[llama]

So what is the "Commonwealth of Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety and Security" APPROVED FIREARMS ROSTER 01-2009? It says it is a list of 'makes and models.....having complied with the statuatory handgun testing provisions of M.G.L. c. 140; 143?
Is this list only of what can be sold by dealers in MA? Can one who is a 'resident' of MA. bring in, say, an EAA Witness .357 from out of state? If so, how does that work?

 

[M1911]

So what is the "Commonwealth of Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety and Security" APPROVED FIREARMS ROSTER 01-2009? It says it is a list of 'makes and models.....having complied with the statuatory handgun testing provisions of M.G.L. c. 140; 143?

Well, first of all, I suggest that you read the roster. If you actually take the time to do so, you'll see that the third paragraph reads:

Massachusetts licensed firearms dealers should note that the transfers of handguns are also subject to the Attorney General’s Handgun Sales Regulations, 940 CMR 16.00, et seq. Firearms on this Approved Firearms Roster do not necessarily comply with the requirements of the Attorney General’s Handgun Sales Regulations.

That's pretty clear. Being on the roster is necessary for a new handgun to be sold by a dealer, but it is not sufficient -- the handgun must also meet the AG's regulations.

Is this list only of what can be sold by dealers in MA?

Yes.

Can one who is a 'resident' of MA. bring in, say, an EAA Witness .357 from out of state? If so, how does that work?

What do you mean by "bring in?" A MA resident can purchase a handgun in a private sale from another MA resident. The AG's regulations and the EOPS roster do not apply to private sales.

A MA resident can purchase a handgun from an FFL in a different state, but that FFL must ship the handgun to a MA FFL, who would then transfer the handgun to the MA resident. But that transfer is subject to AG's regulations and the EOPS roster, so the handgun must comply. Since the EAA Witness is not on the roster, the MA dealer would not complete the transfer.

If you are asking can a resident of another state move into MA with a handgun that is not on the roster, the answer is yes. Simply move in. Bring your guns with you. You have a limited amount of time during which to apply for an LTC. There is no need to register your gun(s) in this scenario and nothing else to do. You can bring in your Witness. Note, however, that any magazines you bring into MA must comply win MA laws -- you can have pre or post-ban low capacity magazines (10 rounds or less) or pre-ban large capacity magazines (11 rounds or more, manufactured prior to 9/14/94). Post-ban large capacity magazines (11 rounds or more, manufactured on or after 9/14/94) are a felony.

 

[MassMark]

Is this the same JT1 from THR and the 642Club? If so, nice to see you again! If not, welcome to NES. Either way,