Calif. to Mass. -- Gun Purchase and LTC strategy

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JT1

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Hi all,

I may be leaving Calif. for a job in Boston proper. If so, I would likely first have temporary accommodations in Boston proper. Then, I would possibly be living with relatives in a Green or Red town. Longer term (e.g. 6 months), I would expect to move to my own home in a gun-friendly Mass. town or even N.H.

I've been planning on buying a gun that I believe is not for sale in Mass.: H&K USPc 9mm. So, if I buy the gun here in Calif., I understand I can bring it with me, but I need to obtain an LTC within a set period of time.

Not surprisingly, what I want is an LTC that is good for All Lawful Purposes.

My questions:

1) Is getting the H&K now a good idea in light of the fact that I may be forced to apply for my initial LTC in Boston proper? Assuming I do and only receive an LTC restricted to hunting/target, would that prevent me from immediately upgrading to one for All Lawful Purposes once I move to my permanent housing in a Green Town? (Yes, I want the H&K, but getting an LTC for ALP is the priority since I am willing to "settle" for, say, a Sig on the lists.)

2) Also, assuming I bring the H&K and crash in with my Green-town relatives, what hurdles do I face establishing residency there? Mind, I will not have a Mass. DL, nor will I have the usual lease, utility bills and whatnot. I can apply for those and probably get other indicators of my residency, but I'm not sure if I can do so in a timely manner that the LTCs appear to require for those bringing a gun into the state. In any case, my intention is to get my own place as soon as possible.

Thanks for your help! Sorry for the convoluted questions, but Mass. gun laws make my head hurt! CA is worse for CCW, but the laws are less complicated.
 
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JT1 said:
I may be leaving Calif. for a job in Boston proper. If so, I would likely first have temporary accommodations in Boston proper. Then, I would possibly be living with relatives in a Green or Red county. Longer term (e.g. 6 months), I would expect to move to my own home in a gun-friendly Mass. county or even N.H.
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In MA, LTCs are issued by towns and cities, not by counties.

I've been planning on buying a gun that I believe is not for sale in Mass.: H&K USPc 9mm. So, if I buy the gun here in Calif., I understand I can bring it with me, but I need to obtain an LTC within a set period of time.
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Yes, you can bring it with you. Note, however, that you will need to use either 10-round magazines or pre-ban large capacity magazines constructed prior to Sept 14(?), 1994. I believe the HK USPc was introduced in 1996, so I believe there are no pre-ban magazines for it.

Not surprisingly, what I want is an LTC that is good for All Lawful Purposes.
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Very unlikely that you would get one in Boston. You will get a restricted LTC-A.

1) Is getting the H&K now a good idea in light of the fact that I may be forced to apply for my initial LTC in Boston proper? Assuming I do and only receive an LTC restricted to hunting/target, would that prevent me from immediately upgrading to one for All Lawful Purposes once I move to my permanent housing in a Green County? (Yes, I want the H&K, but getting an LTC for ALP is the priority since I am willing to "settle" for, say, a Sig on the lists.)
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Get the HK and all other pistols not currently sold in MA that you can afford. Some towns will let you upgrade an LTC. Some won't. Best solution would be to move to a green town at the start.
 
You mentioned that moving to NH may be a possibility. If you can get a place in NH that is close enough to where you'd be working, I'd say do it. Avoid MA completely if you can.
 
Better to wait and apply for the license once you're in a Green town. Once you've been issued a restricted license, you'll find that even some green towns will resist you trying to renew early for an unrestricted.
 
Thanks for the replies.

So it sounds like I have to weigh the certainty of being able to buy the desired gun here in CA vs. the uncertainty of being boxed into applying for the LTC before I can ensure that I'll be in a Green Zone that issues the LTCs in the ALP variant.

It's distressing to hear that towns and cities might be reluctant to allow an LTC upgrade before expiration of the original one issued, especially since it's likely that my first stop would be in Boston proper.

What's making this harder is that the local range/shop, the one that's a 10-minute drive from me, has the exact gun I'm looking for!

I agree the best thing is to go green immediately (or settle in N.H. immediately), but logistically, things are pointing to a temporary stay in Boston upon first arriving. Anyhow, the CCW is more important than the brand / model of gun, although I've been eyeballing this H&K for a bit!
 
What about applying for your non-resident first...and then once you end up in a green town you can apply then. I wouldn't apply to be neutered off the bat and then try and get it un-done by a green town. You may end up having to wait for your license expires.
 
JT1 said:
Thanks for the replies.

So it sounds like I have to weigh the certainty of being able to buy the desired gun here in CA vs. the uncertainty of being boxed into applying for the LTC before I can ensure that I'll be in a Green Zone that issues the LTCs in the ALP variant.

It's distressing to hear that towns and cities might be reluctant to allow an LTC upgrade before expiration of the original one issued, especially since it's likely that my first stop would be in Boston proper.

What's making this harder is that the local range/shop, the one that's a 10-minute drive from me, has the exact gun I'm looking for!

I agree the best thing is to go green immediately (or settle in N.H. immediately), but logistically, things are pointing to a temporary stay in Boston upon first arriving. Anyhow, the CCW is more important than the brand / model of gun, although I've been eyeballing this H&K for a bit!
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Buy a HK P30!!! Buy a few of them... [wink]
 
What town will you be working in?

This will help determine if NH is a good idea or not and what town you should reside in. Also, there are a lot of real estate oppurtunities around here, so you may even find your own place pretty quickly.

Even if you relocate to a temporary "family's house" this I believe would be your legal town of residence. So choose wisely with input from people here.
 
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If you can come to MA and get the Class out of the way before you move here...it will save some time off your application time.

You have 60 days to get your permit if you move into MA with your guns...and it could take that long just for the application process depending on the town you're in. So wasting another two weeks trying to get the class out of the way will just add on time...

Just wanted to throw that out there since no one brought it up.
 
I will drill down deeper into the Mass laws when I get a chance. I wasn't under the impression that I could just "store" the gun with an LTC'd Mass resident or leave it in storage in N.H., etc., and then just get it back once I sort out my own LTC.

I thought one had to have this all squared away within a certain timeframe of moving in state or the gun wouldn't be considered part of my move. Also, if getting a non-resident permit first buys me time, then I'll look into that too.

If this job comes through, I would be working in downtown Boston. I realize I'm probably looking at a sucky commute, especially since we hope to go out far enough in Mass (or N.H.) to get the space we've been dreaming of. (We've done our time in small flats in big cities.) One reason N.H. may be doable is it's possible we'll have access to a place to stay in Boston proper on bad weather days, bad work days, etc.
 
JT1 said:
I will drill down deeper into the Mass laws when I get a chance. I wasn't under the impression that I could just "store" the gun with an LTC'd Mass resident or leave it in storage in N.H., etc., and then just get it back once I sort out my own LTC.
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Federal law allows you to lend a gun to someone else. That someone else can live in another state. That lending can go on for an extended period of time. I am not aware of anything in MA law that would prevent that.

But IANAL. I suggest that you contact a MA firearms attorney such as Cross-X here on the forums, Jesse Cohen, or Keith Langer. Any of them could give you an authoritative opinion on this very quickly.
 
M1911 said:
Federal law allows you to lend a gun to someone else. That someone else can live in another state. That lending can go on for an extended period of time. I am not aware of anything in MA law that would prevent that.
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REALLY!???? [grin] This has my attention now...
 
Buy the HK, buy several, buy Kimbers and Taurus' and anything else you want that we can't get here! Then move to MA and bring the booty with you. MA allows you to sell 4 firearms a year without the use of a dealer so sell a few to fund your habit! As mentioned earlier do not bring in Hi Cap mags unless they are pre-ban. Even possessing hi cap mags that are post ban is illegal here. If you own them...sell them before you move here or store them in another state until to settle in a free state or can sell and ship them from that state!

Good luck!
 
In the meantime, what's the best way for me to understand what's actually available for purchase in Mass?

If I've read correctly, such guns must be on the published EOPs list and on the unpublished AG's list. And the only real way to determine which are on both lists is to see what the local shops are selling?

So, are there some local Mass gun shop websites that would give good visibility into what's available? I found the Four Seasons site in Woburn for example. Any recommendations for other sites?

I'm starting my handgun collection from scratch for reasons outlined in my "introduce yourself" email. So I'm not forced to bring anything with me...it's more a matter of pent up demand for certain brands/models versus the pain of dealing with an LTC application under a deadline. As one poster said, I don't want to neuter my LTC application unnecessarily...

Ha, ha...also, I'm sure people would love me to engage in some handgun arbitrage by buying MA-unobtainable models low in CA and selling high in MA. You know, to make your market more efficient. Unfortunately, CA limits purchases to one a month and I'm keeping the first one (or two or three...)!
 
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not sure if it has been mentioned here yet, but if you can;

get your NON-Residence license before hand if you can.

IIRC - these are not restricted. (please correct me if I am wrong)

it does cost a bit more money in the long run, but may save you some hassle while you are in trasition from state to state. that way you will not need to be concerned about carrying in MA before you have your chance to get your residence license after you become a perm res.

just a though.

gl
 
Pretty sure that your NR LTC would become invalid the day that you actually move to MA! Not sure where you could get a TRUE answer to that question. [I do know that a Resident LTC becomes invalid the day you move out of MA, that's a fact that I've learned from Ron Glidden and EOPS. Not sure that the reverse question has been posed yet.]

And for the OP, there is NO conversion mechanism to convert a NR LTC to a Resident LTC. Every application is a "whole new process", even renewals are treated pretty much the same as a new application (just don't need new training cert or prints).
 
LenS said:
Pretty sure that your NR LTC would become invalid the day that you actually move to MA! Not sure where you could get a TRUE answer to that question. [I do know that a Resident LTC becomes invalid the day you move out of MA, that's a fact that I've learned from Ron Glidden and EOPS. Not sure that the reverse question has been posed yet.]

And for the OP, there is NO conversion mechanism to convert a NR LTC to a Resident LTC. Every application is a "whole new process", even renewals are treated pretty much the same as a new application (just don't need new training cert or prints).
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That is my understanding as well.
 
but if he is just staying here temporarily until he establishes NH residency, could he claim he is a CA resident here temporarily while he finds a permanent NH residence?

In other words get a NR LTC, maintain CA residency until he makes a permanent home, hopefully in NH. There is a lawyer question I guess.

My best advice for you if you are going to be working in the city of Boston itself, or a northern suburb is to reside in NH. If your gun rights mean anything to you at all NH is the place. If you think CA is bad, wait till you see MA.

I bet half the people on this board would be in NH in a second if they could.
 
Glockaholic said:
but if he is just staying here temporarily until he establishes NH residency, could he claim he is a CA resident here temporarily while he finds a permanent NH residence?

In other words get a NR LTC, maintain CA residency until he makes a permanent home, hopefully in NH. There is a lawyer question I guess.
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If he has moved all his stuff from CA to MA and no longer has a CA residence, I think it might be hard for him to claim CA residency.
 
M1911 said:
If he has moved all his stuff from CA to MA and no longer has a CA residence, I think it might be hard for him to claim CA residency.
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Not unless he got his DL. I know someone that moved here from out of state back in 2001. In 2006 he became a "Resident" of Mass..
 
Way back when I moved back from CT to MA, MA had some pretty strict rules on what constituted residency . . . in their favor of course.

If you took a job in MA and weren't commuting from out of state to that job, they considered you a resident from the get-go as I recall (memory could be a bit fuzzy, this was in 1974). They wanted you to have MA (higher $$) insurance on your car, tags, DL, etc. immediately.
 

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