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Can I Carry a Black Powder Revolver?

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The recoil is extremely manageable. After having fun and exploring how much power you could put into it. I decided to take it out and put it to some real use. If you are using it for closer range hunting then you're probably not going to go over 60 grains and ½ oz of shot. At least not for varmint hunting. And I figure 80 would be pretty good if you're using round ball at close range as well. Brought it along to the woods and got a few squirrels. My woods are thick and I often end up too close to several of them to harvest with my shotgun. By the time they get to a desired distance I'm shooting thru tons of brush. So this really came in handy!
 
I just realized this entire thread is a dupe from 11 years ago. A little due diligence please!

www.northeastshooters.com

Lawful 19th Century Guns?

Another thread here talked about guns manufactured prior to 1900AD not requiring transfer forms because MGL C140S121 excludes guns mfg prior to 1900 (quoted below). An LTC is issued under C140S131 and so it seems, would not be a requirement to transfer, possess or even carry such a gun. Even...
www.northeastshooters.com www.northeastshooters.com
 
jdubois said:
The relevant part of the federal definition is "any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898" and the relevant part of the MA definition is as quoted above, "any firearm, rifle or shotgun manufactured in or prior to the year 1899" So the two disagree by one year. I've never heard of one that references a specific date; which definition are you referencing?
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This part ^^^ (quoting the other thread, and mentioned earlier in this one) is something I've never understood. Maybe it was a typo in the bill that the legislature sent to the governor.
 
JNewell said:
This part ^^^ (quoting the other thread, and mentioned earlier in this one) is something I've never understood. Maybe it was a typo in the bill that the legislature sent to the governor.
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The Mass statute dates to 1911 and was re-worked six times before GCA 68 and the Federal definition, not including a 1968 change to the Mass statute.

I don't know when Mass defined an antique as in or before 1899, but it probably has to do with 1900 being an easy to understand bright line. The 1898 versus 1899 issue is also probably so statistically insignificant as to not make a difference. Someone would have to have something rare, like a 1st year of production G98 or a prototype FN1899 (which became the FN1900) for this to actually make a difference. Real, modern concealable handguns, what gun control historically is about, became a thing with the FN1900. Try concealing a Borchardt or a C96.

namedpipes said:
I retract my "no solution" comment. Pepper Spray is an excellent solution for the OP and far less likely to get in hot water.
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+1.
 
McL0v1nfunk said:
Not 21 yet, only have my FID. I carry a shotgun in the trunk, but obviously can't do very much with that in an emergency. My only option as far as handguns go would be my 1851 Pietta. Say I loaded it with 6 shots; could I carry this in a holster, while driving? Or would I need to store it in the trunk if it was loaded?
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Be aware of black powder revolver crossfire......
 
C. Stockwell said:
The Mass statute dates to 1911 and was re-worked six times before GCA 68 and the Federal definition, not including a 1968 change to the Mass statute.

I don't know when Mass defined an antique as in or before 1899, but it probably has to do with 1900 being an easy to understand bright line. The 1898 versus 1899 issue is also probably so statistically insignificant as to not make a difference. Someone would have to have something rare, like a 1st year of production G98 or a prototype FN1899 (which became the FN1900) for this to actually make a difference. Real, modern concealable handguns, what gun control historically is about, became a thing with the FN1900. Try concealing a Borchardt or a C96.



+1.
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Thanks for that.
 
Mountain said:
Did someone say 'blackpowder pistol'?
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600px-POTC3_23.jpg


If you are going to carry a blackpowder pistol...
... you'd better make it a brace of Dragoons...

f7cc932a77191bc24d7ee3a738af0fcc.jpg
 
Aren't those subject to OSHA pemitting? If you drop one on your foot without steel toed boots, you'd crush your foot for sure.
 
SHOTGUNnation said:
Thats an INSANE amount of power. I had some surprisingly devastating results when comparing 12 gauge roundball with .45 acp.

Shooting Review and penetration testing of the AGC American Gun Craft Diablo - a 12 gauge Double Barrel Black Powder Side by Side Pistol.


View: https://youtu.be/zs0eVqO2qkE
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I once shot a 1 gauge black powder shotgun. (1 is not a typo)

Once.

Just mentioning it brings this big, silly smile to my face, even years later.
 
New Video uploaded! <2:01>
🐿🎯
I was able to add a couple of extra squirrels to the pot this week thanks to the Diablo.
Sometimes the little guys get up close and personal in all this brush. Too close to harvest without ruining the muscle. I got a little footage hunting with this 12 gauge Double Barrel BlackPowder Pistol if you're interested.


View: https://youtu.be/tTCdwF4cohk
 
Noticed the original post. I looked into this several yrs ago and came to the conclusion, legal to buy, legal to own, not legal to load & shoot without an FID or better. Carrying it loaded or in your trunk would/could be treated by law enforcement like any loaded revolver.
 
Jimeast said:
Noticed the original post. I looked into this several yrs ago and came to the conclusion, legal to buy, legal to own, not legal to load & shoot without an FID or better. Carrying it loaded or in your trunk would/could be treated by law enforcement like any loaded revolver.
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Cite, please?
 
Jimeast said:
Noticed the original post. I looked into this several yrs ago and came to the conclusion, legal to buy, legal to own, not legal to load & shoot without an FID or better. Carrying it loaded or in your trunk would/could be treated by law enforcement like any loaded revolver.
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I believe it's purchase of powder that requires an FID, or that may just be the shops. But possession and use are OK. So buy in NH and go shooting.
 
In the linked GOAL page, it seems clear that a black powder revolver is exempt from someone needing an LTC to carry, but it seems like a can of worms when carrying one that's loaded without an LTC.

GOAL - Primitve Arms

goal.org goal.org

Also, Gun ownership in Massachusetts

There is a section that indicates black powder rifles, shotguns must be unloaded during transfer, even though not required to be in a locked case.

I suspect a dedicated DA could find a number of crimes to charge someone with if they were carrying (or transporting) a loaded black powder revolver. The charges may not survive a court case.

These links may already be shown in the three pages of comments, but it's the info I would cite in offer of feedback on this topic.
 
42! said:
I believe it's purchase of powder that requires an FID, or that may just be the shops. But possession and use are OK. So buy in NH and go shooting.
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As far as my research shows, you are correct, but a MA AGs with the desire to make a names for themselves started going after out of state businesses years ago that sold into MA without doing proper due diligence (according to MA laws I suspect) on the customer. Not sure if that's still in vogue, but it must have made a lot of out of state businesses more conservative about doing business in MA. 3 yrs ago when I started reloading, some shops (small or large) would not mail order me supplies. Today it seems different, most large or small shops with proof of LTC, will sell mail order and ship to MA.
 
Scrivener weighed in on this a long while back.

IIRC he said legal to own but to carry for protection as one would a modern handgun, you'd need an LTC. I don't think he cited a specific law in the comment I recall. (Re-stumbled across it a few weeks ago)

Not sure if his concern was strict legality or it simply want worth the grinder the legal system will put you through if a random police officer decides you're resisting.
 
namedpipes said:
Scrivener weighed in on this a long while back.

IIRC he said legal to own but to carry for protection as one would a modern handgun, you'd need an LTC. I don't think he cited a specific law in the comment I recall. (Re-stumbled across it a few weeks ago)

Not sure if his concern was strict legality or it simply want worth the grinder the legal system will put you through if a random police officer decides you're resisting.
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This WAS true and was overturned a number of years ago. I know one case regarding this was the Bibby case . . . unsure if that is the one that said LTC required or the one that overturned that ruling.
 
Len-2A Training said:
This WAS true and was overturned a number of years ago. I know one case regarding this was the Bibby case . . . unsure if that is the one that said LTC required or the one that overturned that ruling.
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Interesting. (Academically speaking, I mean - I do think it would be a bad idea to try carrying ANYTHING here without an LTC)

The comment was obviously from several years ago.
 
namedpipes said:
Interesting. (Academically speaking, I mean - I do think it would be a bad idea to try carrying ANYTHING here without an LTC)

The comment was obviously from several years ago.
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I agree that probably 90% of cops will arrest and let the courts (perhaps) sort it out.
 
Len-2A Training said:
I agree that probably 90% of cops will arrest and let the courts (perhaps) sort it out.
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My son (Over 18, FID, Club Member) was at the range, with a BP Revolver, and on the next lane was a cop (Club Member). Cop did not realize that BP revolver was not a "Firearm.' After a bit of talking, and a peek at the MGLs on his phone, cop agreed that all was cool. It was so cool they swapped toys for a bit! [laugh]

It is a confusing area. I spoke with an EPO, and had this (not quite verbatim) discussion

MisterHappy: "OK, It's unlawful to carry a firearm while hunting deer?"
EPO: "That is correct."
MH: "Under both Federal and State law, a Can and Ball revolver, say an 1860 Army Repro, is not firearm"
EPO: {seeing where this is going], "That is correct."
MH: "Therefore, it is not unlawful to carry a cap and ball revolver while hunting, in addition to the lawful-for-the season implement.
EPO: "Um....is is loaded or unloaded?" [I don't see the relevance, but I didn't want to be too much of a d!ck]
MH: "We'll say that it's uncapped." (unloaded per MGLs)
EPO: "There's no law against that."

Bear in mind, there are specific requirements for what can be used for hunting deer, in the hunting regs, based on the season. There is a prohibition against carrying firearms. But AFAIK, there is no restriction about what else you may carry. Perhaps you'll encounter a different EPO, but the above conversation took place ~2 years ago, and, while IANAL, I see no MGL or hunting reg that is being broken.
 
Jimeast said:
In the linked GOAL page, it seems clear that a black powder revolver is exempt from someone needing an LTC to carry, but it seems like a can of worms when carrying one that's loaded without an LTC.

GOAL - Primitve Arms

goal.org goal.org

Also, Gun ownership in Massachusetts

There is a section that indicates black powder rifles, shotguns must be unloaded during transfer, even though not required to be in a locked case.

I suspect a dedicated DA could find a number of crimes to charge someone with if they were carrying (or transporting) a loaded black powder revolver. The charges may not survive a court case.

These links may already be shown in the three pages of comments, but it's the info I would cite in offer of feedback on this topic.
Click to expand...

Locked case/container is required only for large-cap long guns for transport (I presume that's what you meant by "transfer"). Non-large cap long guns only have to be unloaded - no case required for Transport. Once you get out, though, it's storage, and you need either a locked case/container or trigger lock.

Oh, and you should cite MGLs, not GOAL's page, which is not law, IMO. And, to be unloaded, per MGLs, a BP arm has to have no powder in the pan, or cap or primer. It can still have a charge in the barrel/chamber(s).


All of that being said, Len's point about "most cops" is likely correct.

There's a reason I coined the term Massprudent.
 

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