Chicago lays out handgun legal strategy

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The gun gods must be smiling as Fenty and Daley keep on hammering more nails into the gun control coffin... [smile]

Chicago lays out handgun legal strategy
BY JENNIFER SLOSAR
July 25, 2008 | 5:01 PM
The City of Chicago is planning to defend its handgun ban with a highly technical legal argument that some law scholars say isn't likely to fly.

Mara Georges, the city's chief lawyer, appeared before aldermen yesterday pledging to "vigorously" defend Chicago's 1982 handgun prohibition.

The city is currently facing two suits in district court challenging that ban in the aftermath of a June 26 Supreme Court decision that threw out a handgun ban in Washington, D.C.

In that case, the court ruled for the first time that the Second Amendment provides a right for individuals to bear arms.

Georges says the city is likely to argue that the court's decision applies only in Washington, a federal territory, and not to the states.

"The opinion does not say that the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms applies to states or municipalities," says Georges.

Some experts say that argument will face tough scrutiny in court.

"If I were making policy recommendations to the City of Chicago, it would be back off this real fast, and just get rid of it before it gets into court," says Harry Wilson, a political science professor at Roanoke College in Virginia, and author of Guns, Gun Control and Elections.

Wilson says if the city followed that path, officials could replace the current comprehensive ban with limited gun restrictions that would pass muster in court.

"There are lots of less extreme restrictions on ownership and possession that would be upheld," he says.

University of Chicago law professor Geoffrey Stone also says the city's argument may run into trouble.

"It's more likely than not that the Court will end up saying that the Second Amendment governs the states," he says.

When the Bill of Rights was first created, the intention was to provide people with rights only against the federal government, Stone says.

Over the years, those protections have been extended to the states under a legal theory known as the doctrine of incorporation.

Georges says the city is on strong legal ground in defending its ban, citing three Supreme Court decisions holding that the Second Amendment is not incorporated.

Stone says there are plausible reasons why the court might not extend Second Amendment rights to states and cities.

It's possible, he says that the court might not find the right to bear arms equal in importance to the right to freedom of religion or the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures.

However, most of the rights found in the first ten amendments have been extended to states and cities.

Georges allows that the same could eventually happen with the right to bear arms.

"I anticipate that at some time this could have an impact on our gun control laws," says Georges. "But that would not be, at least in my legal opinion, for a while."

Meanwhile, she says, the city is prepared to take its case all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary.

"We would like to be the test case to be able to present our argument," she says.

Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association, says he expects the city's strategy to fall short.

"The Supreme Court does say it [gun ownership] is an individual right," says Pearson. "Regardless of whether that individual is in an area governed by the federal government or a municipality, it is still an individual right."



http://www.chitowndailynews.org/Chicago_news/Chicago_lays_out_handgun_legal_strategy,15284
 
Georges says the city is on strong legal ground in defending its ban, citing three Supreme Court decisions holding that the Second Amendment is not incorporated.
Huh? Anyone know which ones she is referring to?
 
Huh? Anyone know which ones she is referring to?

Yep, they used to say the amendments didn't apply to the states. The thing is, there are also contemporary cases with those she refers to that state the 1stA isn't incorporated. The entire doctrine of incorporation developed in the late 1800s/early 1900s, and the question on the 2nd's incorporation has not come up before the Supreme Court.

However, it's also clear that the 7th Circuit - where the Chicago case will get appealed - considered the 2nd to be incorporated as a matter of course not worthy of discussion, when it upheld Morton Grove's gun ban. Now that the content of the 2nd has been stated by the Court, the 7th Circuit will have to use that content - but on the question of applicability, they already acted as if it were applicable as a matter of course. We'll see how the city words its arguments to overcome that little bit of stare decisis.
 
Are you kidding me?

LOL
Heh. You have to have lived there to begin to comprehend the complete separation from reality of many Cook Co. politicians. Chicago is entirely serious. And before you ask, no they don't see themselves as the clowns they are. One of the other towns sued - Wilmette - has repealed its ban, knowing it's now simply, clearly illegal. Evanston says it is going to revise theirs to be consistent with the ruling (we'll see).

Chicago, however, will drive their clown car right over the cliff waving, smiling and honking all the way down.

Keep in mind that the REASON the NRA has filed this round of lawsuits is to get a Supreme Court ruling on incorporation - the very issue Chicago is raising. The Chicago case is almost identical to the DC case, except it's a state, not a federal district. That is the entire point of the case so it is NO surprise that the city's defense rests almost exclusively on that issue. It's also no surprise that Chicago will blaze ahead defiantly right into a total loser court battle. It's very unlikely that the NRA is going to lose this one. Again, that's the point.
 
You'd think the City of Chicago would be too busy fighting crime to challenge the SCOTUS. Maybe they've grown attached to the nickname "Beirut by the lake". (with apologies to Beirut, Lebanon)
 
highly technical legal argument

bullshit.jpg
 
It is my impression that Gura wants the Chicago gun case to clear up the issue of incorporation. So it appears to me that the City of Chicago is doing just what Gura wants them to do. It will take a few years to see how this plays out, but I think that Chicago will lose.

However, once they lose, they will, like DC, drag their feet and implement new, restrictive regulations that will need to be litigated.
 
It's also no surprise that Chicago will blaze ahead defiantly right into a total loser court battle. It's very unlikely that the NRA is going to lose this one. Again, that's the point.
Just as well that the city's case is a turkey, better chances of 2A being incorporated on a slam-dunk case like this than one with a more feasible argument.

Dragging their feet post-decision or not, once they lose the cascade of pro-2A decisions will just pick up momentum. It's starting to happen, good to have this in motion before our next Administration steps in to foul things up.
 
It is my impression that Gura wants the Chicago gun case to clear up the issue of incorporation. So it appears to me that the City of Chicago is doing just what Gura wants them to do. It will take a few years to see how this plays out, but I think that Chicago will lose.

However, once they lose, they will, like DC, drag their feet and implement new, restrictive regulations that will need to be litigated.

That could be where Fenty helps us out.

I would expect that the monkey business taking place in DC will be settled by the courts long before the Chicago case reaches the SCOTUS, and that Fernty/DC will be made an example of (not that Daley will pay it any heed).

The other ray of sunshine is that any future court decisions will take into consideration Fentys twisting of the law, and that the justices will be more precise and clear about what is allowed and what is not.
 
Well, as it stands now, based on the recent SCOTUS decision, Chicago chances are slim.
However, with upcoming elections and the possibility of a Democratic administration of anti 2nd Amend folks, the the landscape of SCOTUS may change before the case gets there.
If it does, then Chicago may have a chance and we are back where we started.
Another reason to vote for McCain.
 
This could be where it is made clear if the 2A applies to the states. That could be a good thing. But if obama gets elected and appoints a liberal to the Supreme Court, it could be a very very bad thing.
 
Well, as it stands now, based on the recent SCOTUS decision, Chicago chances are slim.
However, with upcoming elections and the possibility of a Democratic administration of anti 2nd Amend folks, the the landscape of SCOTUS may change before the case gets there.
If it does, then Chicago may have a chance and we are back where we started.
Another reason to vote for McCain.

Actually, the 2 justices rumored to be retiring are 2 of the liberals. So if that happens its a wash. But if we can get McCaine in there is a good chance of replacing 2 Liberals with 2 Moderates or Conservatives.
 
Chicago will give us what DC did not: Incorporation of the Second Amendment (and Heller v. DC) to the states.

I didn't think any mayor would be more stupid than Adrian Fenty, but Dick Daley proved me wrong.
 
I believe that these ass clowns, including our own ass clowns in Loserchusetts, should be approaching gun owners and proposing legislation that is palatable to everyone. If they continue to buck the SCOTUS decision, a federal court somewhere is going to tell them what to do, and like it.
 
Great use of the tax dollars in Chicago. This is like something out of bizarro world. Take the residents money in form of taxes and in turn use that money to fight the higher courts trying to keep those same residents from being free. F-ing idiots.

When is this country going to stop electing these people??? By the time we do it will be too late....
 
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