class 3 as an investment

Shark_Cage

Shark_Cage

NES Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
6,625
Likes
12,556
Location
Reading, MA
Feedback: 5 / 0 / 0
Hi,
Sorry if this is a dupe.
Just submitted my C&R app today. I'm considering getting a Green Card and purchasing for investment purposes. Everything I have seen online about using class 3 weapons as an investment is anecdotal. Does anyone have a link to a sight with more hard facts (e.g. Historical rates of return)?

I live in a red town and I will need to present the COP detail.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Last edited:
You won't find a website with that info because very few would recommend it as an investment. Buy machineguns because you like machineguns, not because you plan on making money off them as an investment. Sure if everything stays exactly as it has been the last decade or so, you might make some money down the road when you sell your toys, but there are so many variables I wouldn't an MG solely as an investment...
 
they aren't "class 3", they are "title 2" firearms.

buying now and saying it's an investment? yeah in a decade or so maybe. the time to have done that would have been in 1986.

honestly if they won't even issue you a unrestricted LTC you think you're gonna walk in and make nice with the CLEO and he's gonna be like LOL MG NO PROB DUDE. doubt it's gonna happen. go get yourself a trust and flip the guy the bird and just buy/build whatever they let the servants possess NFA-wise.
 
Jim, regardless if you get a trust in the future to collect MGs, you'll still need to get your C&R (prerequisite in MA for MG license in most towns as "proof") FFL03, and apply with your local PD or licensing LT. to get your MG license first.
 
Values on transferable pre-86 full-auto are more volatile than you'd expect.

The real issue, as mentioned before is risk. A legislative change either opening up the registry to new items (when pigs fly) or removing transferability of existing (more likely) would drop the value of your investment to near zero.
 
I can't imagine a change in the machine gun legislation, so i think it's a damn good investment, along with a boat load of fun. Prices will only rise as time goes on.
 
Kevin_NH said:
Values on transferable pre-86 full-auto are more volatile than you'd expect.

The real issue, as mentioned before is risk. A legislative change either opening up the registry to new items (when pigs fly) or removing transferability of existing (more likely) would drop the value of your investment to near zero.
Click to expand...

I don't think either is likely. And if pre-86 transfers get banned we likely have bigger problems to deal with.

-Mike

- - - Updated - - -

atilla said:
they aren't "class 3", they are "title 2" firearms.

buying now and saying it's an investment? yeah in a decade or so maybe. the time to have done that would have been in 1986.

honestly if they won't even issue you a unrestricted LTC you think you're gonna walk in and make nice with the CLEO and he's gonna be like LOL MG NO PROB DUDE. doubt it's gonna happen. go get yourself a trust and flip the guy the bird and just buy/build whatever they let the servants possess NFA-wise.
Click to expand...

In MA he'd still need to beg to the CLEO to get an MG license if he wants an MG, trust or no trust.

-Mike
 
I suspect the real reason he is asking about "investment" is so that he can present a case that is one of the reasons that he is indeed a bona fide collector.

There is a CMR that established than an 03 FFL is a bona fide collector, however, PDs are free to accept other evidence of "collector status". And, even with an 03, some departments flat out deny MG license applications.
 
drgrant said:
In MA he'd still need to beg to the CLEO to get an MG license if he wants an MG, trust or no trust.

-Mike
Click to expand...

that's what the end of the sentence was, whatever the servants can possess. [laugh]

it's such a royal pain, i feel for the dude as i started my NFA stuff in MA. didn't even bother with the green card.
 
I'd have to sell off a significant amount of my collection and also organs to be able to afford the MG that I'd want (ie. a registered M16 lower, or a DIAS - ~$20k+?), so I just don't see it happening for me.
 
I have been looking to buy a Thompson ever since I got my green card 4 years ago. I haven't been able to find one worth owning for less than 18K. But I have been following the market and the prices haven't changed much in the last 4 years.
I have been looking strictly at Thompsons, so I don't know if the prices on other transferables have changed much.
 
There are an estimated 330,000 transferable MG's in the U.S. which represents approx one tenth of 1% of all firearms in the country. With such a restricted supply, it's simple economics. If the demand continues to increase as it has, then prices will continue to escalate. $30k may seem like a steep price for a HK mp5k but for the wealthy clientele that can afford to play in today's MG world, I seriously doubt $45k in 5 years will scare anyone away. Macs have doubled in the last 7 years and even at today's prices of approx $5k, I'm sure they'll double in another 5 years from now.

I just got my green card and already bought a few toys. Well I paid for them, I have to wait about 9 months before I can have fun with them. It's kind of like buying antique cars, it's a fun hobby cause you can use your investment unlike stocks, bonds or precious metals.
 
Folks look at my guns laid out on the table and think that I'm wealthy. Not so. Thompson--$500 post sample. Grease Gun--$200 post sample. Mack 10 transferable--$500 new. (back then). Reising transferable--$400. Reising from reg. receiver and parts kit--$300. Suppressed Ruger .22 pistol--$500 long time ago. Suppressed shotgun--home built. Altogether, less than one nice AR. Jack.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
I suspect the real reason he is asking about "investment" is so that he can present a case that is one of the reasons that he is indeed a bona fide collector.

There is a CMR that established than an 03 FFL is a bona fide collector, however, PDs are free to accept other evidence of "collector status". And, even with an 03, some departments flat out deny MG license applications.
Click to expand...
+1...Spot on Rob!
 
one-eyed Jack said:
Folks look at my guns laid out on the table and think that I'm wealthy. Not so. Thompson--$500 post sample. Grease Gun--$200 post sample. Mack 10 transferable--$500 new. (back then). Reising transferable--$400. Reising from reg. receiver and parts kit--$300. Suppressed Ruger .22 pistol--$500 long time ago. Suppressed shotgun--home built. Altogether, less than one nice AR. Jack.
Click to expand...

What does it cost to maintain a 07 and sot? Do you need to maintain a "business" here in mass to be able to hold the 07 and SOT?
 
mac1911 said:
What does it cost to maintain a 07 and sot? Do you need to maintain a "business" here in mass to be able to hold the 07 and SOT?
Click to expand...
The 07 is $150 for three year renewals. Forget what the first one is. SOT is $500 per year. If you want to do business in Mass you need a place of business outside of a "residence". Depending on where you are, maybe you can operate a "home occupation" without doing business in Mass. Others have managed to obtain a separate address for their detached garage or woodshed. Of course renting a small, cheap space in the correct zone will work. You will still need the "Green Card" from the town you live in for MGs. In my experience, the ATF is very easy to work with (believe it or not) compared to the state and towns. Give it a try. Jack.
 
Last edited:
one-eyed Jack said:
The 07 is $150 for three year renewals. Forget what the first one is. SOT is $500 per year. If you want to do business in Mass you need a place of business outside of a "residence". Depending on where you are, maybe you can operate a "home occupation" without doing business in Mass. Others have managed to obtain a separate address for their detached garage or woodshed. Of course renting a small, cheap space in the correct zone will work. You will still need the "Green Card" from the town you live in for MGs. In my experience, the ATF is very easy to work with (believe it or not) compared to the state and towns. Give it a try. Jack.
Click to expand...

Thats why i was wondering about the sot? I got a green light from the ATF on my FFL dealers( 2005) application but they contacted me about the "state laws"
informed me about the changes as being a seperate business.... i gave up at that point. I have no way of seperating anything at my home address.
I am slowly moving forward trying to figure something out. I been trying to get a friend of mine to talk with his uncle who owns a tackle shop. They used to have a FFL dealers license back in early 2000s. Im getting there, C&R, Green card, slowly learning some gunsmithing...
 
I know one guy who used investment as a reason for a green card. He was successful in obtaining the only green card in Brookline MA. I also know of several people who have become millionaires dealing in automatic weapons, but they started buying a long time ago.
 
mac1911 said:
Thats why i was wondering about the sot? I got a green light from the ATF on my FFL dealers( 2005) application but they contacted me about the "state laws"
informed me about the changes as being a seperate business.... i gave up at that point. I have no way of seperating anything at my home address.
I am slowly moving forward trying to figure something out. I been trying to get a friend of mine to talk with his uncle who owns a tackle shop. They used to have a FFL dealers license back in early 2000s. Im getting there, C&R, Green card, slowly learning some gunsmithing...
Click to expand...
Forget about the 01. Get the 07. It opens more doors and you will still have all the dealer privileges. After you have the FFL you can pay the SOT. You don't need to "apply", you just buy it for $500 per year, July to July. You will be meeting with an ATF investigator at your place of business. The investigators, ones that i've had contact with, Lisa, Christine and Thierry, out of the Boston office are very professional, thorough and helpful. If you have your ducks in a row, you will be OK. Good luck. Just do it! Jack.
 

Similar threads

Preban SBR lower - Sell as a Form 4 or a Title 1?
Replies
2
Views
492
AMV
A
Purchasing Suppressors In NH As A New Resident
Replies
11
Views
875
steve8140
steve8140
3 months later
Replies
1
Views
586
Gillham
Gillham
Machine Guns as a legit investment?
2
Replies
40
Views
3K
morganaterms
M
Suppressor options for .300 Blackout SBR
Replies
24
Views
2K
JRT
JRT
Back
Top Bottom