I can't see how that would hurt. But I would keep it in two files. The basics in one. The rest in another. That way, if you need them, you have them. But if you don't, you're not spending a ton of time flipping through papers.
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Class B vs. Class A Clarifications (UPDATE 9/7/07, LTC Issued!)
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I can't see how that would hurt. But I would keep it in two files. The basics in one. The rest in another. That way, if you need them, you have them. But if you don't, you're not spending a ton of time flipping through papers.
It's pretty sad that this state's gun laws make the simple task of turning in a firearms application require the assistance of an attorney for those who haven't spent years following the laws.
I agree 100%. Coming from Vermont it just boggles the mind. I had initially planned to just go in and buy a shotgun for this past turkey season when I was not-so-kindly informed by the Dick's clerk that I couldn't even handle firearms without a license. I laughed thinking that he was pulling my leg, but he didn't smile back. I was amazed.
I've been calling around and have decided not to retain legal council. I don't think I'm going to need it. I haven't been issued so much as a speeding ticket in all my 32 years on this planet. I'll go with as much documentation as I can pull together and hope it's enough. My firearms instructor walked me through filling out the form, so I should be good on that front.
Thanks to all of you for your advice. Wish me luck. I'll keep you all posted on what happens. Hopefully I'll be shooting with you in a few weeks.
Thanks,
Tom
pdm
NES Member
Technically, you can handle a firearm without a license. you just have to do it under the supervision of a license holder. Dick's, however, can have a business rule that doesn't even allow that for liability reasons.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
WRONG. That store clerk doesn't know what he's talking about. While most stores DO have that annoying policy, there is NOTHING in the MGLs that prevent him from showing it to you... merely from selling it.
Tom, best of luck to you. If you want to bring all the extra paperwork (which I really don't think you'll need) do what C-pher suggested - leave it in a separate section of your briefcase or whatever you're carrying stuff in and only produce it if the licensing ILLEGALLY demands it.
BTW... having just returned from a glorious weekend in the lovely state of your birth... WTF WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU MOVED DOWN HERE????????
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
BTW... having just returned from a glorious weekend in the lovely state of your birth... WTF WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU MOVED DOWN HERE????????
I ask myself this question on a daily basis these days.
A month ago my childhood buddy let me shoot his brand new 1911 Kimber. My lord, what a nice shooting gun it was. Of course, I find out when I get back home to MA that Kimbers are not MA compliant.
Mass has a lot to recommend it, and the North Shore has got to be one of the most beautiful places around. Plus I met my lovely wife here. It's not all bad.
Of course, we have plans to move back to Vermont eventually so all of this will hopefully be a distant memory. I'll shed a tear for all of you poor MA bastards when I chamber my Kimber for the first time.
The strangest thing I've found in all of this is that the laws get under your skin in a strange way. Why do they make you feel unclean and paranoid even when you are a law abiding citizen and contributing in a positive way to society? I guess I'm chafing under what I feel is an unjust law. I will of course follow this law to the letter, but the whole situation really gets me down. I wonder if I'll feel any better when I get my LTC?
Has anyone ever attempted a class action suit to settle this issue?
Again, thanks for all the advice. I'm going to read through the thread again right before my appointment next week. Some very thoughtful folks around here!
Tom
My town required two passport photo's even though they used the electronic system, drivers license, completed application, Safety Class certification and two letters of recommendation addressed to the chief. (That might not have been required but I was told it helps, specially since I had a State Trooper and a local officer write them for me.) If you know anybody who is respected in the town/state it could help if they write you a recommendation letter.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Ross, no, not wrong. While you're correct that there's nothing in the MGLs saying that a Dick's employee can't let you handle the guns. Dick's policy (at least as it was told to me when I started) is that without the permit...I can't let you touch the Guns or Ammo.
Any while I know and you know...and even if it's just a two bit part time job....I'm not going to lose my job and fight the store over a store policy. And while it sucks...we're just doing our jobs. [sad2]
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Understood... but the clerk should tell the customer that it's a STORE POLICY and NOT state law that the customer can't drool over handle the gun without an LTC or FID.
Odds are that the clear only knows that he can't let you touch a gun without a license; they probably would consider it a waste of time to tell him why he can't. After all, he's only supposed to follow orders, not engage the customers in discussions of reasons an the meaning of life.
Ken
Yea, Taunton has one... Snowjoker, he's just as, if not smarter than I.
I try to explain to people, while I would love to let you hold a gun, Dick's says that I can't let you without a permit. But, if doesn't stop us from talking about it all night long.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
I will never rush someone out of the store. I'm more than happy to talk to you about guns, ammo, and the limited knowledge of fishing as you would like. Permited or not!
The ones that get upset with me are all the people from RI that have permits and RI cops that don't understand that I can't sell them anything because they don't live in MA. Sometimes they forget that our store is in MA, not RI.
I try to explain to people, while I would love to let you hold a gun, Dick's says that I can't let you without a permit. But, if doesn't stop us from talking about it all night long.
I will never rush someone out of the store. I'm more than happy to talk to you about guns, ammo, and the limited knowledge of fishing as you would like. Permited or not!
The ones that get upset with me are all the people from RI that have permits and RI cops that don't understand that I can't sell them anything because they don't live in MA. Sometimes they forget that our store is in MA, not RI.
Apply for LTC-A/ALP. They can do as they please but I don't know of any PD that has ever "denied" since they won't issue what you asked for . . . they will just downgrade it/restrict it within their "policies" (for the non-connected).
Maybe I missed it in the past 47 posts to this thread, but . . .
Why not call and ask them specifically for what you'll need to bring with you?
I would not walk in with a roll-around suitcase with file-folders loaded with everything including pay-stubs just to get a LTC!
I would go in confident, bringing just what is required by them. Anything else that comes up in conversation, ask if it's OK to just drop it off at the PD in an envelope for the LA. That shouldn't hold up anything.
Good luck.
Maybe I missed it in the past 47 posts to this thread, but . . .
Why not call and ask them specifically for what you'll need to bring with you?
I would not walk in with a roll-around suitcase with file-folders loaded with everything including pay-stubs just to get a LTC!
I would go in confident, bringing just what is required by them. Anything else that comes up in conversation, ask if it's OK to just drop it off at the PD in an envelope for the LA. That shouldn't hold up anything.
Good luck.
The officer conducting the interview is out of town until the day of my meeting with him.
I'll take your advice and apply for a Class A ALP. I'll use two folders: one with the minimum and another with additional stuff that I might need.
I'll keep you all posted as to how it turns out.
Thanks!
Go for the Class A unrestricted LTC.
Then start working on plans to move back up to VT!
Good luck, and let us know how you make out. Again, I also agree that if your town is that tough, it might make sense to have a lawyer at the ready. Perhaps you can find out beforehand what they do there and decide if you want a lawyer or not at application time.
Then start working on plans to move back up to VT!
Good luck, and let us know how you make out. Again, I also agree that if your town is that tough, it might make sense to have a lawyer at the ready. Perhaps you can find out beforehand what they do there and decide if you want a lawyer or not at application time.
Hi folks,
I thought I'd give you all a brief update. Perhaps some of those people submitting applications in Salem, MA will find this information useful.
The application process took about a half hour and the only materials I had to supply was my NRA pistol safety certificate and my filled out paper LTC application. I did not have to provide a birth certificate, proof of residence or any of that extra stuff. The officer conducting the application was extremely courteous and professional. He gets high marks in my book.
After talking to my firearms instructor who really knows the local PDs, I decided to apply for a Class A "Sporting and Target" which does not allow me to carry concealed. Since I wasn't planning to carry anyway, this was fine. Thanks to all of you who talked me out of applying for the Class B. I won't be limited in the firearms I can purchase in MA, and I have you guys to thank for that.
The background check was completed right there and was instant. He took an electronic scan of my right hand index fingerprint, and then took a full set of ink prints. The rest of the application including the photograph was all done via computer.
He said that in a couple of weeks my license will come in the mail and he'll give me a call so I can pick it up. Basically, I have full approval but won't be "street legal" until the actual plastic card is in my wallet.
I have a gorgeous 20 ga. on hold at a local shop waiting for me. I can't wait to pick it up once my license comes in. Thanks again to all of you who helped with advice. I'm looking forward to participating in these forums and meeting some of you at the range.
I'll update this thread again once I have my LTC (and my new Rizzini) in my hot little hands.
Cheers!
I thought I'd give you all a brief update. Perhaps some of those people submitting applications in Salem, MA will find this information useful.
The application process took about a half hour and the only materials I had to supply was my NRA pistol safety certificate and my filled out paper LTC application. I did not have to provide a birth certificate, proof of residence or any of that extra stuff. The officer conducting the application was extremely courteous and professional. He gets high marks in my book.
After talking to my firearms instructor who really knows the local PDs, I decided to apply for a Class A "Sporting and Target" which does not allow me to carry concealed. Since I wasn't planning to carry anyway, this was fine. Thanks to all of you who talked me out of applying for the Class B. I won't be limited in the firearms I can purchase in MA, and I have you guys to thank for that.
The background check was completed right there and was instant. He took an electronic scan of my right hand index fingerprint, and then took a full set of ink prints. The rest of the application including the photograph was all done via computer.
He said that in a couple of weeks my license will come in the mail and he'll give me a call so I can pick it up. Basically, I have full approval but won't be "street legal" until the actual plastic card is in my wallet.
I have a gorgeous 20 ga. on hold at a local shop waiting for me. I can't wait to pick it up once my license comes in. Thanks again to all of you who helped with advice. I'm looking forward to participating in these forums and meeting some of you at the range.
I'll update this thread again once I have my LTC (and my new Rizzini
) in my hot little hands.Cheers!
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Hi folks,
I thought I'd give you all a brief update. Perhaps some of those people submitting applications in Salem, MA will find this information useful.
The application process took about a half hour and the only materials I had to supply was my NRA pistol safety certificate and my filled out paper LTC application. I did not have to provide a birth certificate, proof of residence or any of that extra stuff. The officer conducting the application was extremely courteous and professional. He gets high marks in my book.
After talking to my firearms instructor who really knows the local PDs, I decided to apply for a Class A "Sporting and Target" which does not allow me to carry concealed. Since I wasn't planning to carry anyway, this was fine. Thanks to all of you who talked me out of applying for the Class B. I won't be limited in the firearms I can purchase in MA, and I have you guys to thank for that.
The background check was completed right there and was instant. He took an electronic scan of my right hand index fingerprint, and then took a full set of ink prints. The rest of the application including the photograph was all done via computer.
He said that in a couple of weeks my license will come in the mail and he'll give me a call so I can pick it up. Basically, I have full approval but won't be "street legal" until the actual plastic card is in my wallet.
I have a gorgeous 20 ga. on hold at a local shop waiting for me. I can't wait to pick it up once my license comes in. Thanks again to all of you who helped with advice. I'm looking forward to participating in these forums and meeting some of you at the range.
I'll update this thread again once I have my LTC (and my new Rizzini
Cheers!
Wow, they let you apply for a Class A in Salem? Is Lt. Ouillette still the licensing officer?
When I applied in Salem, he told me in no uncertain terms that since they would not issue a Class A to me unless I handled a lot of cash or owned my own business, he would only enter Class B into the system. I told him several times that I wanted the application to be submitted for a Class A ALP but he refused. He was kind of a jerk about it. Anyway, I didn't want to piss him off and just let him do what he wanted.
I was going to hire a lawyer to fight it but I found a job in NH, sold my house and moved to free country. Here's the CCW process in NH:
Me: "Hi, I'd like to drop off my application and fee."
Them: "No problem, but we don't accept payment until the license is actually issued because if it is declined we'd have to refund it."
Me: "OK."
Them: "Call in two weeks. It should be ready."
Fast forward two weeks:
Me: "Hi, this is Mr. Weebles. Is my license ready."
Them: "Yup, pick it up when you have a chance. Have a great day."
The moral of this story? Massachusetts sucks.
IMNSHO, folks are UNNECESSARILY intimidated that if they do ask for LTC-A/ALP that they will get DENIED outright.
I know of NO CASES where this happens!
The chiefs/LOs just issue whatever they will. They have a perfect right to ignore what you put down on the form and some do.
BUT, if you don't ask for LTC-A/ALP, you are EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to ever get one.
In other words, IMNSHO, you have NOTHING TO LOSE AND EVERYTHING TO GAIN in asking for LTC-A/ALP no matter what town you are in!!
It's very easy to justify a LTC-A, as I've laid out in the Sticky on Licenses (that I guess few bother to read <sigh>). If you ever want to own/shoot a S&W 41, 622, 422 - All TARGET guns, they are by definition "HIGH-CAPACITY" handguns and require a LTC-A!! Has nothing to do with CCW at all.
That's a start. Other ideas for ALP are also covered and most PDs won't even ask for your sob story.
MaverickNH
NES Member
Most of us know what you are saying, but for those new to the topic:
"a perfect right to" = "the power to"
Niggling, for sure, but using "right" in that way gives me the creeps...
Salem is a "black" town. I've read several stories (like the one above) where the person applying wasn't even allowed to apply for a restricted class A. I was expecting to be talked down into a class B like the fellow above, or even an FID.
I was quite happy to be granted a restricted A because I have no intent on carrying. In another town I would probably have gone for an ALP. I wasn't about to make a scene after getting more than I expected.
It's sad that the MA laws put you into this mindset, and I do feel like "they" won in a small way.
Still, my goal was to be able to enjoy a full season of grouse hunting in the New England autumn woods and this is now a reality for me. I'm not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good in this situation.
