CMP M1 Garand and Mondern Military is next 11/05/2017 @ OCSA pembroke ma

[headednorth]

I shot a lot as a kid/teen then took aprox 10 year break with abot 500 rounds shot (plinking ) in those ten years. in 2005 the garands came back up for sale so i jumped om one then a few more and got back into shooting. My first match in 2005 with my SG SA and HXP was a whoping 275/500! at 100 yards. pretty bumbed out as I "used" to shoot better than that. Then after a year or so my scores crept up. That same gun with HXP i can get into the 430s with reloads I might pick up 5-12 points. Honestly tough it took me a good three years to shoot consistently in the 400 plus range. Only since my M1 builld with new barrel and new well fitting stock 2 years ago (which over the past 10 years i have been learning more about getting a M1 to shoot "better") did i break into the 440+

three things that really help me improve.
Dry Fire at home in position just like im shootng a match. Even put my jacket on. I place a 3/8 dot at about 20' and this is pretty darn close to the sight picture.
Nateral Point of Aim--- hard to explain quickly here
Accepting and repeating your sight picture.
Front sight focus
Sling use
Trigger control
learning to breath and not to rush.

There is no shortage of help at a cmp/nra match
If you want to try match even if you dont have ANY equipment there is always people willing to help.

When I had more expendable money i use to pay for new shooters matches for the M1.

Appleseed's are.worth many​ times what they cost. If people go there and listen and.just do what they say, their last aqt on day 2 will be like night and day compared to their first from day one. They put together everything Mac mentioned here with experienced guys looking over your shoulder helping you along. Every shooter should do at least one.

 

[daekken]

Appleseed's are.worth many​ times what they cost. If people go there and listen and.just do what they say, their last aqt on day 2 will be like night and day compared to their first from day one. They put together everything Mac mentioned here with experienced guys looking over your shoulder helping you along. Every shooter should do at least one.

I'm adding sling mounts to my 10/22 this weekend and debating on swapping my 4x-12x cheap scope for some tech sights to try an appleseed this year if I can find one on a weekend that works with my schedule.

 

[daekken]

Side note...what does it take to shoot a club gun? Do you rent them? Who has to clean/lubricate them? Might be able to get more people involved if I can get them some info on club guns. Also, is ammo still available at the club even though HXP is dried up? I can always send them to pick up some American Eagle for Garand, but it kinda kills the selling point of this being 'fun' when the day costs almost $60 just for one match with the cost of commercial ammo.

I used a club gun last October before my M1s arrived this year. One of the guys used one last match. Rich (or does he go by Rick?) said that OCSA was very low on HXP (I was going to buy club HXP to shoot the match) and couldn't get anymore so I shot my own HXP that I had brought with me.

My only problem with the club gun was that when I started prones, the trigger guard had been left unhooked. After it didn't fire on my first trigger pull I realized the problem and closed the guard.

 

[headednorth]

I'm adding sling mounts to my 10/22 this weekend and debating on swapping my 4x-12x cheap scope for some tech sights to try an appleseed this year if I can find one on a weekend that works with my schedule.

Just getting the concept of natural point of aim is worth the time and money. After I got that down pat it almost felt like cheating.

 

[mac1911]

Side note...what does it take to shoot a club gun? Do you rent them? Who has to clean/lubricate them? Might be able to get more people involved if I can get them some info on club guns. Also, is ammo still available at the club even though HXP is dried up? I can always send them to pick up some American Eagle for Garand, but it kinda kills the selling point of this being 'fun' when the day costs almost $60 just for one match with the cost of commercial ammo.

cmp clinic at pembroke and hanson you can use a club gun for the price of the match plus ammo cost.
most clubs that host a CMP clinic or match will have loaner rifles. You need to contact the match director for whats available.
Hanson rod and gun has 10 M1 garands , 2 or 3 AR15s and M1 carbines. The M1 carbines are most likely going to be pulled from the line up as they are just to expensive to maintain.

The cost of the matches can be expensive but its all relative. I see people bitching about match prices holding a jumbo latte and a pack of smokes in thier pocket.... honestly i use scrap change to fund my shooting. Cash in cans, scrap metal, sell stuff i dont use.

Whats going to happen when HXP runs out ? who knows. Clubs will run down supplies and deal with it.

 

[daekken]

Whats going to happen when HXP runs out ? who knows. Clubs will run down supplies and deal with it.

I would guess those interested in continuing to offer the opportunity to participate without their own ammo/rifles would swap to PPU or similar and increase the price correspondingly. Many might drop it altogether.

I do wish Pembroke had loaner Springfields and/or M1 Carbines, wouldn't mind giving one a try.

 

[mac1911]

I used a club gun last October before my M1s arrived this year. One of the guys used one last match. Rich (or does he go by Rick?) said that OCSA was very low on HXP (I was going to buy club HXP to shoot the match) and couldn't get anymore so I shot my own HXP that I had brought with me.

My only problem with the club gun was that when I started prones, the trigger guard had been left unhooked. After it didn't fire on my first trigger pull I realized the problem and closed the guard.

yes they store the rifles trigger guards unlocked. Franco usually tells everyone who uses a club gun..... usually.

 

[mac1911]

I would guess those interested in continuing to offer the opportunity to participate without their own ammo/rifles would swap to PPU or similar and increase the price correspondingly. Many might drop it altogether.

I do wish Pembroke had loaner Springfields and/or M1 Carbines, wouldn't mind giving one a try.

if anything the club will go to some other rifle.... if not for the current mess in MA with the AGs BS they might have been going to AR route.
One club is plannng to rebarrel some M1s to 308. although if thw clubs dont buy several years worth of ammo up front and adjust prices for increase we will be in the same position in a few years as 308 gets more expensive also.

 

[mac1911]

I'm adding sling mounts to my 10/22 this weekend and debating on swapping my 4x-12x cheap scope for some tech sights to try an appleseed this year if I can find one on a weekend that works with my schedule.

this will be my appleseed gun if I ever get to one.... i have a new stock in mind Think on the lines of a fullsize stock like a remington 513 or winchester 52 .

 

[daekken]

this will be my appleseed gun if I ever get to one.... i have a new stock in mind Think on the lines of a fullsize stock like a remington 513 or winchester 52 .

Harvard has one in July but I'll be out of state. Leyden in August (bit far) and then two in MA in Oct. and one in NH in October.
I haven't read up enough on them yet.
The crummy scope on my 10/22 has worked fine for me for 50-100 yds, but I am thinking with the websling that putting an aperture sight on it instead could help make it an inexpensive-to-fire analogue for the M1/AR style.

I have heard they make an M1 Carbine stock for the 10/22.

 

[mac1911]

Harvard has one in July but I'll be out of state. Leyden in August (bit far) and then two in MA in Oct. and one in NH in October.
I haven't read up enough on them yet.
The crummy scope on my 10/22 has worked fine for me for 50-100 yds, but I am thinking with the websling that putting an aperture sight on it instead could help make it an inexpensive-to-fire analogue for the M1/AR style.

I have heard they make an M1 Carbine stock for the 10/22.

they do but I think its ugly and does not look right

 

[Mountain]

I'll take you up on that...did you say you're at the Fox and Coon?

Nimrod, which is very close to Fox and Coon. I think some of of the two properties abut. IMHO our range is a little nicer than Fox and Coon, and with upcoming improvements even better.

I'll stay in touch regarding when I plan to go.

 

[Mountain]

Not sure I can make the 7/9 match, but if I can...

Will bring the VKT M39 Finn Mosin and for the first time will be reloading for it. The stock on this thing looks like it was attacked by beavers and is super fugly, but it is a decent shooter. I bought two of these things and sold the MUCH nicer Sako since the VKT was the better shooter.

Looks like my usual 46.5 gr of Varget for .30-06 will nicely fill the 54R case and is somewhere in the middle of the recommended loads. Will be using Nosler .308 168 blems as the bore slugged out to be pretty tight. I barely have enough empty PPU brass, so guess I need to go plinking with some of the 180 SP's I have.

If I do go, I can only make the first round and then would have to split.

 

[dw617]

I'm already looking forward to the next Match. Need to dust off the 1917 - did OK at Butner with it. The cock on close is challenging for rapids and the triggers on the 17's are horrible. Franco told me not much can be done to them. In slow prone, these rifles are laser beams.

The downside to shooting 2-3 matches a month, plus any practice, plus a weekly offhand league I shoot in the summer is all of the fired brass I have to stay on top of. This week I told myself I would get through all of it. Just finished re-sizing 160 pieces of HXP which was gifted to me at a match in April. Today I produced 50 223s and was given 100 1x fired LC 30-06 at a match. The never ending cycle.

 

[mac1911]

I'm already looking forward to the next Match. Need to dust off the 1917 - did OK at Butner with it. The cock on close is challenging for rapids and the triggers on the 17's are horrible. Franco told me not much can be done to them. In slow prone, these rifles are laser beams.

The downside to shooting 2-3 matches a month, plus any practice, plus a weekly offhand league I shoot in the summer is all of the fired brass I have to stay on top of. This week I told myself I would get through all of it. Just finished re-sizing 160 pieces of HXP which was gifted to me at a match in April. Today I produced 50 223s and was given 100 1x fired LC 30-06 at a match. The never ending cycle.

brass management can be a pita if your busy shooting.

 

[Mountain]

I'm already looking forward to the next Match. Need to dust off the 1917 - did OK at Butner with it. The cock on close is challenging for rapids and the triggers on the 17's are horrible. Franco told me not much can be done to them. In slow prone, these rifles are laser beams.

The downside to shooting 2-3 matches a month, plus any practice, plus a weekly offhand league I shoot in the summer is all of the fired brass I have to stay on top of. This week I told myself I would get through all of it. Just finished re-sizing 160 pieces of HXP which was gifted to me at a match in April. Today I produced 50 223s and was given 100 1x fired LC 30-06 at a match. The never ending cycle.

If you need some 'help' with that brass...

 

[Mountain]

Question re the 7/09 match:

Flyer mentions Springfield as acceptable vintage rifle. That true? If yes, I'd rather give my 03 a workout since the last Springfield match was skipped.

 

[76Too]

Not sure I can make the 7/9 match, but if I can...

Will bring the VKT M39 Finn Mosin and for the first time will be reloading for it. The stock on this thing looks like it was attacked by beavers and is super fugly, but it is a decent shooter. I bought two of these things and sold the MUCH nicer Sako since the VKT was the better shooter.

Looks like my usual 46.5 gr of Varget for .30-06 will nicely fill the 54R case and is somewhere in the middle of the recommended loads. Will be using Nosler .308 168 blems as the bore slugged out to be pretty tight. I barely have enough empty PPU brass, so guess I need to go plinking with some of the 180 SP's I have.

If I do go, I can only make the first round and then would have to split.

Get out of my head! LoL...just shot and shined up my VKT M39 this week to get it ready for the vintage match! Unlike you, my SAKO is the better shooter as of so far, but I've barely scratched the surface cleaning the bores and doing any accurizing to either of these yet to determine if either one is actually more accurate than the other. Like yours though, my SAKO is MUCH nicer, and I'm pretty interested to see what your VKT's version of beaver attack looks like...luckily for me, the spot on my stock that's been serrated is in a good spot for me to get some extra grip out of it.

i will not yet be reloading for the Mosins, as I have yet to sell any of my high priced spam cans in the classifieds. I was going to bump my ad the other day, but saw Mac put some up and didn't want to seem like I was stepping on his dick...even though mines priced higher! It'll be nice once I do start reloading x54r to know that I don't have to clean my rifles as SOON as possible after I shoot them.

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Question re the 7/09 match:

Flyer mentions Springfield as acceptable vintage rifle. That true? If yes, I'd rather give my 03 a workout since the last Springfield match was skipped.

I understand this as true. Just asking, was there a reason the Springfield match was cancelled?

 

[dw617]

Question re the 7/09 match:

Flyer mentions Springfield as acceptable vintage rifle. That true? If yes, I'd rather give my 03 a workout since the last Springfield match was skipped.

I believe the Flyer is wrong as there is a separate Springfield 1903/A3 match category. You're not going to be turned away with the Springfield though but you may not be eligible for the pin/award at the end.

 

[mac1911]

Question re the 7/09 match:

Flyer mentions Springfield as acceptable vintage rifle. That true? If yes, I'd rather give my 03 a workout since the last Springfield match was skipped.

The Flyers are all screwed up and have not been changed except for the dates and contacts. Go ahead mention it at the next match and be nominated for flyer detail

The rules don't help much either Just look at the cmp games categories. There are to many options sometimes. If you are going to run a separate match IE vintage or springfield or what have you you need to have the correct rifles....having the Flyers not jive do not help either. on the modern military for Pembroke it says Match rifles are ok but I got DQ'd my first run for MM at Pembroke with my RRA NM A2? I shot a 488/500/6x

SO technically its a Vintage Match and springfields are not allowed

3
1.3.3 Club Matches
CMP-affiliated clubs may conduct CMP-sanctioned matches with competitions in one or more CMP-recognized events. Any CMP-recognized event may be included on the program of a sanctioned Club Match.
1.4 CMP-Recognized Rifle and Pistol Events
All competitions conducted or sanctioned by the CMP must offer competition in rifle or pistol events recognized by the CMP. CMP Games Rifle and Pistol Matches recognized by the CMP are listed in Table 1 and Table 2 below: TABLE 1 – CMP GAMES RIFLE MATCHES Event Rule, Rifle Allowed Course of Fire

AS-ISSUED MILITARY RIFLE MATCH
Rule 4.0, any As-Issued M1 Garand, Springfield or Vintage Military Rifle This is basically what Pembroke should run in its entire match, well I think any way.
30 shots, Table 3, or 50 shots, Table 4

JOHN C. GARAND MATCH
Rule 4.0, As-Issued M1 Garands

SPRINGFIELD RIFLE MATCH
Rule 4.0, As-Issued M1903/M1903A3 Springfields

VINTAGE MILITARY RIFLE MATCH
Rule 4.0, As-Issued U. S. Krag, M1917 or foreign military rifles

AS-ISSUED MILITARY RIFLE 3-GUN AGGREGATE
Rule 4.0 and 5.0, As-Issued M1 Garand + M1903/M1903A3 + Vintage Military Rifle
3 X 30 shots (900 aggregate)
AS-ISSUED MILITARY RIFLE 4-GUN AGGREGATE
Rule 4.0, As-Issued M1 Garand + M1903/M1903A3 + Vintage Military Rifle + Modern Military Rifle
4 X 30 shots (1200 aggregate)

MODERN MILITARY RIFLE MATCH
Rule 5.0, Modern Military Rifles
30 shots, Table 3, or 50 shots, Table 4

UNLIMITED M1 GARAND MATCH
Rule 5.0, Unlimited M1 Garand

M1 CARBINE MATCH
Rule 5.0, As-Issued M1 Carbines
40 shots,
Table 5

 

[mac1911]

Get out of my head! LoL...just shot and shined up my VKT M39 this week to get it ready for the vintage match! Unlike you, my SAKO is the better shooter as of so far, but I've barely scratched the surface cleaning the bores and doing any accurizing to either of these yet to determine if either one is actually more accurate than the other. Like yours though, my SAKO is MUCH nicer, and I'm pretty interested to see what your VKT's version of beaver attack looks like...luckily for me, the spot on my stock that's been serrated is in a good spot for me to get some extra grip out of it.

i will not yet be reloading for the Mosins, as I have yet to sell any of my high priced spam cans in the classifieds. I was going to bump my ad the other day, but saw Mac put some up and didn't want to seem like I was stepping on his dick...even though mines priced higher! It'll be nice once I do start reloading x54r to know that I don't have to clean my rifles as SOON as possible after I shoot them.

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I understand this as true. Just asking, was there a reason the Springfield match was cancelled?

the springfield match was not cancelled the match director{s} just failed to take a proper head count. you need 4 shooters for a match

 

[mac1911]

the springfield match was not cancelled the match director{s} just failed to take a proper head count. you need 4 shooters for a match

you will be hard pressed to do much to a mosin that wont violate the rules to improve accuracy. A well fitting stock and action screw torque goes a long way. My mosin was the least fun rifle to try to improve on. This is why I posted very little about it.

 

[mac1911]

Why do my quoted post get all messed up.
How did I end up quoting myself?

 

[76Too]

you will be hard pressed to do much to a mosin that wont violate the rules to improve accuracy. A well fitting stock and action screw torque goes a long way. My mosin was the least fun rifle to try to improve on. This is why I posted very little about it.

i'll be starting and ending the process with proper screw torque than! Up until this point I've barely taken them out of the safe since their initial test fire. The M39's shouldn't need much help anyway as they're both at least on paper at 100 yards...I just make a lollipop with the target instead of cutting the black ring in half with my front sight post and I get pretty close to where I need to be. Should be better at 200 thought because the bullet trajectory will have flattened out a bit by then, right?

 

[mac1911]

Get out of my head! LoL...just shot and shined up my VKT M39 this week to get it ready for the vintage match! Unlike you, my SAKO is the better shooter as of so far, but I've barely scratched the surface cleaning the bores and doing any accurizing to either of these yet to determine if either one is actually more accurate than the other. Like yours though, my SAKO is MUCH nicer, and I'm pretty interested to see what your VKT's version of beaver attack looks like...luckily for me, the spot on my stock that's been serrated is in a good spot for me to get some extra grip out of it.

i will not yet be reloading for the Mosins, as I have yet to sell any of my high priced spam cans in the classifieds. I was going to bump my ad the other day, but saw Mac put some up and didn't want to seem like I was stepping on his dick...even though mines priced higher! It'll be nice once I do start reloading x54r to know that I don't have to clean my rifles as SOON as possible after I shoot them.

- - - Updated - - -



I understand this as true. Just asking, was there a reason the Springfield match was cancelled?

Post your 54r I don't mind. Might help me.
I don't know where you can find sealed tins for less. That was a 2014 price I paid.

 

[76Too]

Post your 54r I don't mind. Might help me.
I don't know where you can find sealed tins for less. That was a 2014 price I paid.

sad...because in 2013 I think I paid $100 a can when I ordered a few crates!

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Why do my quoted post get all messed up.
How did I end up quoting myself?

I thought you were just being vain.

 

[Mountain]

Why do my quoted post get all messed up.
How did I end up quoting myself?

Always helps to quote an expert.

Guess I should shoot the Finn. I put a rear peep on my VKT, need to change that back to original for the match. May go to the range to sort out the M39 sights plus fart around with the .308 Garand. Oh, and shoot the Luger- maybe a 'shoot out' vs. the Rem R1.

Dakar652, here's a link to a range report for my Sako (since sold) and the VKT. https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/298542-Range-Report-Two-Finn-M39-s-Sako-vs-VKT?highlight=mountain+vkt

Does that count as quoting myself? You've seen that, so just a reminder...

5th pic shows the chewed up buttstock. Not shown is a worse beaver bite near the front sling swivel. Doesn't seem to affect the shooting & mac accused me of 'cheating' by shooting the Hornady, LOL. Hopefully I can duplicate the accuracy of it because I would not want to shoot it in a match- it is a little tight in the chamber and might be a PITA in rapids. Kinda sucks that Hornady is using steel cases for that ammo. That target with the VKT was shot at 100 yards, but via very careful shooting from the bench.

 

[mac1911]

i'll be starting and ending the process with proper screw torque than! Up until this point I've barely taken them out of the safe since their initial test fire. The M39's shouldn't need much help anyway as they're both at least on paper at 100 yards...I just make a lollipop with the target instead of cutting the black ring in half with my front sight post and I get pretty close to where I need to be. Should be better at 200 thought because the bullet trajectory will have flattened out a bit by then, right?

try a center hold at 200 yards. if not you will have to use what ever change in elevation the rear sight has to offer. I will break out the dial indicator one day and see how much the rear sight changes for each change in elevation.

I might not be doing this correctly but .007" change in sight height on a mosin (24.25" sight radius) will be aprox 1 MOA. So we will try to figure out the change in MOA for each graduation of the rear sight. I also will be doing it in yards.

will do this all on the basis of your mosin being "zeroed" POA=POI or center hold. it just makes things easier for me. Luck has it that your "average" come ups are darn close enough to get you close enough with the 30 cal family in the mid 2000 fps range or at least close enough for a 6 moa target

so if your mosin is "zeroed" at 100 meters (which they are not) I rounded to the nearest yard

109 yard zero surplus ammo is what 147 grains ? I will just say 150 grains @ 2700fps which I thing is what most surplus is supposed to be at? Any way its "close" enough

so with the close enough data you can get a close enough come up of each notch on your rear sight. using a basic ballistic calculator like hornady

100m/109y notch Zero so the following will be the aprox change in MOA for each change in elevation.
here are the rough drops from a 109 yard zero
sight setting * yards / moa change between settings "rough"
100-200* 109-218 / 2moa
200-300* 218 to 328 / 3.3moa
300-400* 328-437 / 3.5moa
which is about right as the drop from 100-300 is about 15" devide by distance 300yards is 5 moa...

so for all things even closely correctly calculated IF you have your M39 on 100 rear sight setting and you use a lollypop hold and your groups center is in the black bulls eye of a SR 1 at 100 yards . When you move out to 200 yards with the same settings same hold your groups should impact low 9 high 8 ring. So setting the sight to 200 "should" get you back to the middle
Now the kicker is if its still a little low your next notch 200-300 will most likely toss you high into the 8 ring...at least that's how I thunked it

 

[mac1911]

My plan is to shoot the K98 Russian capture I have IF one of three loads I am making up can hold the black.
three loads are H4895 35 and 37 grain and 16 grains of 2400. What ever load can hold the black that's what I shoot.
the rounds

The bore


If the k98 cant cut it I will try the enfield with HXP then if that don't shoot the black I will use K31

 

[Mountain]

Short trip to the range, and not particularly productive. Forgot my spotting scope, so lots of wasted time checking shots.

Did a few minor things to the .308 Garand and slinged up to see how it would do. Good news is that horizontal displacement is ~1/2 MOA at 100 yards. Bad news is that my vertical displacement is double. Some of that probably me in bad light, but it's not all me. Back to the drawing board.

M39 replacement front sight was better matched to the peep and is way too tall for the regular rear sight. Was working my way up but ran out of time and had to head home for dinner. Maybe the 400 meter setting will work, or I can file down the sight. Don't want to do that for when I re-install the rear peep.

One highlight was the Luger, which shot well.