Comm2A Sues Boston Police over Passports

[yanici]

They say (not joking) his nickname growing up was mouse. Where did they come up with that?


I really don't understand their thinking, fighting this. Just stupid for the city to waste money on a case they'll lose and is minor to them.

Hey, it's ok. Maybe there will be a little gravy left over after paying the legal bills.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Get em

 

[Riverside]

Interesting, this looks like a fairly recent policy. In 2013 there was no identification requirement...



http://web.archive.org/web/20130405....com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/LICENSE.pdf

2014...

https://static.squarespace.com/stat...f92c/1379597120109/LTC GUIDELINES 9-2013.pdf

Even more interesting, a passport is acceptable to apply for a hackney license...



https://static.squarespace.com/stat...1368033948295/Hackney-License-Application.pdf

Same for a sightseeing drivers license...

https://static.squarespace.com/stat...91/Sightseeing-Driver-License-Application.pdf

In 2006, Boston applicants were required to bring in their Birth Certificate, (Baptism certificate as well if the name was not listed on the Birth Certificate) and a utility bill showing their name and residence as being in Boston. Why they do not accept a Passport is beyond me. It is not unreasonable for a person whose parents survived a war torn country, long journey to the USA, and a host of other obstacles, not to have a copy of their Birth Certificate or naturalization papers. If they have a Passport, they had to prove identity at one point in time. This obstruction is set up in a City whose Mayor signed the Trust Act, where illegal immigrants are welcome by stated policy. Yet a US Passport is not sufficient for a citizen's Identification? Somebody at headquarters has to start thinking beyond what is before them on a computer screen and acknowledge that gee, maybe a Passport is a legitimate form of identification. Commissioner Evans will not move an inch toward fairness in issuing licenses unless he is forced. His statement about the residents of Boston, "no Boston resident needs a rifle or shotgun" speaks for itself. He has nothing but disdain for the residents who are legal gun owners. I hope this action moves forward quickly and has a positive outcome for the plaintiff.
Best regards.

 

[boscru]

i promised publicly to put a check in the mail to comm 2a yesterday a.m. after their update over the weekend based on the confiscation thread(vv in particular)

realized it was easier to do it via debit card on sunday p.m.--- done.. now the buggers @ 2a pull a fast one on me and i'll have to send them more.

sorry guys, you'll have to wait about 10 days. picking up a new 9 tomorrow.

 

[Come and take]

Nice! Donation inbound to Comm 2A!

 

[OfficerObie59]

One must now prove either citizenship or lawful permanent resident (green card, and not the machine gun kind) status. Lesser forms of legal residency, as well as illegal residency, are not sufficient for an LTC, even post-Haas.

So essentially, an applicant had to prove he's not here on a visa or is an illegal alien. While it may indeed be a statutory requirement, it really smacks of a "papers, please" mentality.

Makes me wonder if they'd have him do so if his last name wasn't Ngo.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

So essentially, an applicant had to prove he's not here on a visa or is an illegal alien. While it may indeed be a statutory requirement, it really smacks of a "papers, please" mentality.

Makes me wonder if they'd have him do so if his last name wasn't Ngo.

More directly, an applicant has to prove they're worthy of exercising a fundamental right.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Hey, it's ok. Maybe there will be a little gravy left over after paying the legal bills.

The way a 42 USC 1988 claim is structured, it is just for legal bills - not damages. It is, none the less, an effective tool for getting the attention of government functionaries who force citizens into federal court to assert their constitutional rights.

it really smacks of a "papers, please" mentality.

Every time I fly, I smile and tell the TSA droid "I trust you'll find my papers to be in order". Most take me seriously and don't even understand.

 

[pastera]

Does Com2a have a combined federal campaign number?
Work always get moonbats to hassle people to give - would be nice to not throw them out of the office and tell them my gifts will be going to helping people buy assault weapons and machine guns

 

[ruebarb]

Don't forget this is perfect timing, as the Feds Claim the Mass ID is no longer a valid ID and Mass residents can only use a passport until the state complies.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nat...-washington/iQl5H871MxTHAqpnN1Rj7N/story.html

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Don't forget this is perfect timing, as the Feds Claim the Mass ID is no longer a valid ID and Mass residents can only use a passport until the state complies.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nat...-washington/iQl5H871MxTHAqpnN1Rj7N/story.html

While interesting, one really doesn't have anything to do with the other.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Maybe the author of this Boston policy of not accepting Passports worked in retail prior to the retailer going out of business!!

Probably 25 years ago I was in Jordan Marsh at So. Shore Plaza when a woman offered her Passport as ID to use an American Express Travelers Check to pay for some clothing. The clerk told her that a US Passport was no good for ID!!

It's obvious me that someone like that now works for the City in policy making!

Very sad but with the dumbed-down Amerika we live in, it figures!

- - - Updated - - -

It should be interesting to see the response from the Boston PD Legal Dept. It is likely to prove to some how stupid lawyers really are!

 

[ruebarb]

Delete

 

[Christian]

So a passport is accepted the world over as a suitable form of ID, just not in Boston.

Once I find a job again I'm going to start donating, kick the piss out of them Comm2A.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

So a passport is accepted the world over as a suitable form of ID, just not in Boston.

Once I find a job again I'm going to start donating, kick the piss out of them Comm2A.

Okay NES, find this guy a job!

Seriously, we made a significant commitment to this case. We don't have a partner and recovering our costs is not a done deal.

 

[KBCraig]

Don't forget this is perfect timing, as the Feds Claim the Mass ID is no longer a valid ID and Mass residents can only use a passport until the state complies.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nat...-washington/iQl5H871MxTHAqpnN1Rj7N/story.html

Such a scam.

NH passed a law that forbade the state from complying with REAL-ID, and openly defied the feds.

Response? The feds simply deemed the NH license to be compliant.

 

[KBCraig]

A federal judge has overturned a Hawaii law barring legal immigrants from applying for a firearm permit, the latest in a wave of rulings against similar laws across the country.

Judge J. Michael Seabright ruled last week in favor of plaintiff Steve Fotoudis, an Australian citizen who is a permanent resident living in Honolulu.

According to court documents, Fotoudis was a competitive shooter in his home country and “had extensive training in firearms use and safety” before he moved to the U.S.

However, when Fotoudis attempted to apply for a firearm permit at the Honolulu Police Department, he was told he was not allowed to because of state law. The law restricted police in Hawaiian counties to issuing gun permits only to U.S. citizens, with a few exceptions that did not apply to Fotoudis.

Seabright ruled that law unconstitutional.

“The undisputed facts establish that Fotoudis, as a lawful permanent resident alien of the United States (and resident of Hawaii), was denied the opportunity to apply for a permit to acquire firearms solely because of his alienage,” Seabright wrote. “This classification violates the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution.”

Gun rights advocates, like Second Amendment Foundation founder Alan Gottlieb, say rulings such as this strengthen the rights of both permanent residents and Americans citizens.

“The Second Amendment is an individual right,” he told FoxNews.com.

The Hawaii statute is the latest in a series of similar laws being struck down across the nation.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/23/gun-hawaii-immigrant-second-amendment/

 

[Coyote33]

Such a scam.

NH passed a law that forbade the state from complying with REAL-ID, and openly defied the feds.

Response? The feds simply deemed the NH license to be compliant.

How can we do that in MA?

 

[vietboy1st]

i am the only one suffering because i live in the city. -_-" I will stop by the Boston PD headquarter to ask if i reapply license to carry with no restriction. My expiration date in 2018.. i can't wait for that long...

 

[Rob Boudrie]

i am the only one suffering because i live in the city. -_-" I will stop by the Boston PD headquarter to ask if i reapply license to carry with no restriction. My expiration date in 2018.. i can't wait for that long...

There are three alternatives:

1. The issuing department can order a replacement license (no charge), and change the restriction in MIRCS before submitting the replacement request.

2. The issuing department can expire your license and you can apply for a new LTC.

3. You can move out of state, notify the issuing dept and FRB, and they should (emphasis should, not will) expire your LTC. This is a hack for those cases where the issuing dept refuses to expire an LTC as they know such refusal will keep you unarmed until expiration (think Brookline)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Probably 25 years ago I was in Jordan Marsh at So. Shore Plaza when a woman offered her Passport as ID to use an American Express Travelers Check to pay for some clothing. The clerk told her that a US Passport was no good for ID!!

You were no doubt dealing with a near minimum wage employee who was empowered to follow policy, not make decisions.

Passports are a gold standard for proof of citizenship and ID (this case is about citizenship proof). They do not provide a verification of address which, to some extent, MA drivers licenses do ... unless you are one of the special people (stalking victims, celebrities) allowed to use an RMV office building as you address. In fact, Len S reported an encounter with Caroline Kennedy who is apparently authorized to use a driver's license with a nom-de-road.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Comm2A Needs Your Help.

We quickly need to identify other police departments with this policy. If a PD requires some proof of citizenship but doesn't accept a passport you need to tell us who they are. Contact Comm2A at [email protected] with either of the following:

A link to the PD's webpage where this requirement is documented

-- or --

A scanned copy of their application packet where the requirement is documented.

We need this sooner rather than later.

Thanks!

 

[jtnf]

Leominster may be a candidate...

http://www.leominster-ma.gov/images/images_police_dept/pdfs/fid.pdf

Must present your Birth Certificate and/or Passport and/or Naturalization Certificate.
Your birth certificate must be an original; it can be the long or short form but must have the issuing city’s seal on it.
Your passport will not be accepted if it is not signed or if it is expired. If submitting a naturalization certificate it must
be an original and a passport will not be accepted in place of the naturalization certificate.



Randolph:
http://www.randolphmapolice.com/fid6.htm

1. Must be U.S. Citizen.
2. If naturalized bring original of naturalization document.
Passports are not acceptable.


Norwell:
http://www.norwellpolice.com/NPDServices/FirearmsLicensing.aspx
3. You must provide proof of U.S. Citizenship (copy of a U.S. birth certificate or U.S. Passport). If you are a naturalized U.S. citizen, you must submit a copy of your naturalization certificate.

 

[Erichkruger]

Brockton:

http://www.brockton.ma.us/docs/forms/INSTRUCTIONS_-_FID_Card_Application.pdf?sfvrsn=0

"Applicant needs to have their birth certificate. If naturalized for
citizenship, your Naturalization Certificate is needed as well. "

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Thanks, Randolph we knew about. We're specifically looking for these types of town that think that a valid US Passport is "not acceptable".

 

[jtnf]

Thanks, Randolph we knew about. We're specifically looking for these types of town that think that a valid US Passport is "not acceptable".

Randolph has pretty healthy Vietnamese and Dominican communities, the odds are better than not that somebody has been bitten by the same restriction there.

 

[jtnf]

The Lynn police website is under construction, but Google turned up this in its' cache:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...rm_permit_&_fid.htm+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

(Quoted in its' entirety, since it is currently only available in the google cache)

This is Google's cache of http://www.lynnpolice.org/firearm_permit_&_fid.htm. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Sep 20, 2014 03:44:59 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more
Tip: To quickly find your search term on this page, press Ctrl+F or ⌘-F (Mac) and use the find bar.

Text-only version

Requirements to Possess Firearms


Resident License to Carry (LTC) Firearms

To lawfully possess a handgun, you must have a valid LTC. You may get an application at your local police department, or go to the "Firearms Forms" page to print an application. Contact your local police department for additional information.


Resident Firearms Identification (FID) Cards

To lawfully possess a rifle, shotgun, ammunition, or chemical propellant spray, you must possess a valid FID card. You may get an application at your local police department or go to the "Firearms Forms" page to print an application. Contact your local police department for additional information.


Resident Aliens

Persons who are not citizens of the United States, and are residents of Massachusetts shall not own or have in his possession or under his control a firearm except as provided in section one hundred and thirty-one F or a rifle or shotgun except as provided in this section or section one hundred and thirty-one F. The colonel of the state police may, after an investigation, issue a permit to an alien to own or have in his possession or under his control a rifle or shotgun; subject to such terms and conditions as said colonel may deem proper. The fee for the permit shall be $100, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in case of revocation or denial.

(M.G.L. c. 140 §131F, and M.G.L. c. 140 §131H). For information on how to apply for an alien license to possess a rifle or shotgun, contact the Firearms Record Bureau (FRB) at (617) 660-4780.


Non-Residents Carrying Firearms within the Commonwealth

A United States citizen who is not a resident of the Commonwealth may possess rifles, shotguns, and firearms if certain situations apply. For information regarding the possession of pistols, revolvers, rifles or shotguns, see F.A.Q. in the left column for Massachusetts Laws related to firearms. If the situations described in the law do not apply, the non-resident citizen must apply for a temporary non-resident LTC. Please call the FRB at (617) 660-4780 for more information.


Non-Resident Aliens

The FRB may issue a Class A or Class B temporary license to carry firearms, or feeding devices, or ammunition. These licenses may be issued only to aliens who are not Massachusetts residents, for such purposes as firearms competitions, and may be subject to other terms and conditions. Please call the FRB at (617) 660-4780 for more information.





See F.A.Q. in the left column for Massachusetts Laws related to firearms.





LYNN POLICE DEPARTMENT PROCEDURE
FOR ALL APPLICANTS

All applicants must be a resident of Lynn and at least 21
years of age.



Renewals and new applicants must have a birth
certificate or citizenship papers.


No Passports will be accepted.


* Massachusetts Drivers License or any current
picture ID with a current address on it.
* Two different home utility bills or any other bills
that show proof of residency. Your name must be
on it.



New Applicants must bring in a copy of a Competency Course given by a state certified instructor.


* If applying for Mace only, no competency course is
needed.



$100.00 cash non-refundable application fee.

* There is NO FEE for applicants 70 years of age
or older.



RESTRICTED FID CARD FEE REDUCTION NOTICE

Chapter 140 of the Acts of 2003 in Section 34 reduces the fee for first time FID Cards Restricted to Chemical Sprays (Class D) from $100 to $25. Renewals for this restricted FID Card continue to be free.

(The bill was signed by the Governor on November 26, 2003.)




Applications for Licenses To Carry, Firearm Identification Cards, and renewals are accepted in the Records Office only.

All Firearms Licensing Is Done By Appointment Only.

Telephone 781-595-2000 to make an appointment.

 

[jtnf]

Foxboro:
http://www.foxboroughma.gov/pages/foxboroughma_police/firearmappchecklist.pdf


CITIZENSHIP: New Applicants. If you are a United States citizen by birth, you must bring either a Birth
Certificate and, or US Passport to prove citizenship. Naturalized citizens are required to bring their
Naturalization Certificate, which should include the date, number, and location (city/state) of naturalization.
Renewals do not require proof of citizenship.

 

[DrNVP]

http://somervillepd.com/index.php/services/firearms-licensing

CITIZENSHIP: Naturalized citizens are required to bring a Naturalization Certificate, which should include the date, number, and location (city/state) of naturalization. Renewal will not require proof of citizenship.

Couldn't find anywhere stating that US passports were unacceptable.

 

[goodzilla]

Tewksbury

"[SIZE=+1]Proof of Citizenship - Birth Certificate or Naturalization Papers and Passport"
[/SIZE]Proof of Citizenship - Birth Certificate or Naturalization Papers and Passport - See more at: http://www.tewksbury.net/Pages/TewksburyMA_Police/fire#sthash.aVpYePAW.dpuf

http://www.tewksbury.net/Pages/TewksburyMA_Police/fire

I know the plaintiff can only produce the Passport and doesn't have a Naturalization cert, does this help?

By the way, there's a Google hit for Lynn (dead link circa 2003), but their current website is atrocious. Lynn would be a big "get" though.

Firearms Permits - Lynn Police Department

www.lynnpolice.org/firearm_permit_&_fid.htm
Nov 26, 2003 - Resident License to Carry (LTC) Firearms To lawfully possess ... No Passports will be accepted. * Massachusetts Drivers License or any curren