Democracy or Republic?

[Big Daddy 45acp]

I do not know if this is a dupe, but in honor of July Fourth, I thought I would post a little history lesson.

The American Form of Government

So, the next time someone point out that we live in a Democracy, send them to that video so they understand what our founding Fathers gave us, and what is happening to us!

 

[M'Head]

Thanks for posting this. It was quite informative. Happy Independence Day!

Semper Fi

 

[gene]

It's been posted and well worth multiple views. Just wish more people outside the community would take the time to view it instead of some of the other garbage.

Happy 4th.

 

[Spanz]

That was informative, and factual up until the last minute or so. But it left out a lot. For instance, in a republic, his definition is that it is rule by law. But what stops the "republic" from passing laws, such as "it will be illegal to own any semiautomatic rifle or gun"....? There is no explanation of how basic rights are derived and guaranteed. An anti could easily use that video to prove that his point of view is protected by American heritage!

There was an interesting history channel show on yesterday about Ben Franklin. He was the one who changed the constitution's draft to read "we hold these truths to be self evident...". In other words, neither the government, not the religion popular at the time is "granting" you these rights. Instead it is "self evident" that these rights belong to the people by fundamental humanity. Since no government is granting you these rights, then no government has the power to take them away.

Another point not explained, we have a federated republic. In other words, there is a definite limit to the federal governments powers, and the states powers should dominate in all but a few cases.

 

[jdubois]

I've seen this video a few times. To me, it seems like a tired attempt to shove types of government into a neat and tidy linear left/right political scale. It's not the way the real world works, and it's ridiculous and forced. I'm always confused why people have this need to pretend that a republic and a democracy are somehow two different parts of the same line. They're two different things, and we live in both. We elect (democracy) a representative government (republic), so we are a democratic republic. The fact that we are not a "direct" democracy does not mean we are not a democracy. And the fact that we are a democracy does not mean we are not a republic.


Happy 4th, everybody!

 

[Kalahari]

Agreed, jdubois. I also didn't like how it made its own scale of "0-100% government," essentially making fascism, nazism, communism, etc. equal. Especially when socialism is an economic policy (i.e. you could have a democratic socialist nation with rights and elections and so forth).

There are too many different ways you can create a government to narrow it down to just three.

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

I know he tied the package up nice and neatly, but my take is different.

Rather than seeing it as several clearly defined types of government, what struck me as important, is the parallel he drew between what is going on today and the decline of the Roman Empire.

How many more Presidential elections will it take before the media has total control of the outcome?

People of America need to wake up. If the current Administration has it's way, Hadji will be our last "elected" president.

 

[drgrant]

Agreed, jdubois. I also didn't like how it made its own scale of "0-100% government," essentially making fascism, nazism, communism, etc. equal. Especially when socialism is an economic policy (i.e. you could have a democratic socialist nation with rights and elections and so forth).

Well, there is one commonality. All of the things it lumps together as governments are concerned do not respect the curse of the individual. Our constitutional republic was designed to try to protect that as much as possible, but people have still figured out how to rig/manipulate/corrupt the system to their own ends.

Socialists, Fascists, Communists are all heavily authoritarian when it comes down to it. So what- the symptoms are a little different, but the fundamental underpinnings of all these things are nearly the same. Socialism is "lighter" so it often gets a free pass, but it is still the same brand of garbage as the other two, just minus executions and
gulags. (You're still being robbed at gunpoint, though. )

Democratic Socialism = no different from any of the above, it's just a "lite" version of the same type of crap. It's still a bunch of people voting to
steal from others.

Most people, most voters, don't get this- the real battle is about how much power you want to give the government; all the "issues" people bicker over are actually somewhat
beneath that. Most of the issues are shit that governments should have NO BUSINESS in deciding. People frankly should have been hung a long time ago for even
suggesting some of them.

-Mike

 

[mikem317]

...

Outside Independence Hall when the Constitutional Convention of 1787 ended, Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, "A republic, if you can keep it."

 

[Kalahari]

Well, there is one commonality. All of the things it lumps together as governments are concerned do not respect the curse of the individual. Our constitutional republic was designed to try to protect that as much as possible, but people have still figured out how to rig/manipulate/corrupt the system to their own ends.

Socialists, Fascists, Communists are all heavily authoritarian when it comes down to it. So what- the symptoms are a little different, but the fundamental underpinnings of all these things are nearly the same. Socialism is "lighter" so it often gets a free pass, but it is still the same brand of garbage as the other two, just minus executions and
gulags. (You're still being robbed at gunpoint, though. )

Democratic Socialism = no different from any of the above, it's just a "lite" version of the same type of crap. It's still a bunch of people voting to
steal from others.

Most people, most voters, don't get this- the real battle is about how much power you want to give the government; all the "issues" people bicker over are actually somewhat
beneath that. Most of the issues are shit that governments should have NO BUSINESS in deciding. People frankly should have been hung a long time ago for even
suggesting some of them.

-Mike

My point was solely that a state of people could choose to be a socialist nation, like the people of this country chose to be a democratic republic (or whatever you'd like to call it). There may not necessarily be a need for use of force as we saw in Stalinist Russia or Maoist China. We see examples of this in kibbutzes (I believe that is the term) in Israel.