-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Manual safety or not? 365X
- Thread starter BigAl23
- Start date
dcmdon
NES Member
Just to weigh in on the last 2 pages of comments.
I take classes for two reasons.
1) it might be useful some day
2) its fun
Some of the stuff in some of the classes isn't anything I'm ever likely to use in real life. But it's fun. So I participate.
Some of thethings described above are dangerous, but do not violate the 4 rules of firearm safety. Having someone down range doesn't violate rule #1. Nobody's pointing a gun at anyone. But it creates an environment where minor errors can create huge risk. If a 10 deg pivot is the difference between pointing at someone and not pointing at someone, then it's probably not worth the scenario.
It doesn't matter if you are putting someone downrange intentionally or if you are having people draw from the back seat of a car while there are people in the front seat. Both create very unforgiving situations where problems can occur.
I have a friend who was actually in the SEAL teams. (I didn't believe him at first but at one point we went to the naval base in Newport, where I met a guy who he used to serve with who is now an instructor. He was there for POWERPOINT training. Ha. Nobody can escape it). He told me that there was a guy in his BUD/S class who was shot in training. Like I said earlier, for some people riskier training has real benefit.
My last reply is that I did the room clearing exercise at a class at Academi. Their classes are (were? It was a long time ago) often attended by their own people who are freshening up their skills before going somewhere to guard something for Uncle Sam. The dentist and I were the only non-Academi guys in the class. All of their people were veterans with combat experience.
I did get one heart warming story out of the class.
The assistant instructor had two prosthetic lower legs. He stepped on a mine in Afghanistan. The shock had cracked all of his teeth and they were now starting to rot. He needed a whole mouth full of dental implants. He mentioned this to the dentist and how TriCare and the VA were jerking him around and how no private dentists who could do the work took tri-care.
The dentist (who owned his own practice) said that he would call the office at lunch and see if they could take tri-care. After lunch, he told the guy that it was no problem and with Tri-care the cost would be pretty much zero. The guy just about teared up thanking the dentist.
When we were taking a break, I asked him how they got Tri-Care to pay. He said something like "Oh. They won't pay. They suck. But this poor bastard stepped on a mine defending his country. The least I can do is help him recover physically and emotionally. I'm going to eat all the cost".
We kept in touch for a while after the class and he told me that when he told the implant manufacturer of the situation, they agreed to provide them at no charge. So the dentist donated his time and all the other supplies, and the implant maker donated the implants. Heartwarming. The instructor never knew any better. He was too proud to have take this offer.
I take classes for two reasons.
1) it might be useful some day
2) its fun
Some of the stuff in some of the classes isn't anything I'm ever likely to use in real life. But it's fun. So I participate.
Some of thethings described above are dangerous, but do not violate the 4 rules of firearm safety. Having someone down range doesn't violate rule #1. Nobody's pointing a gun at anyone. But it creates an environment where minor errors can create huge risk. If a 10 deg pivot is the difference between pointing at someone and not pointing at someone, then it's probably not worth the scenario.
It doesn't matter if you are putting someone downrange intentionally or if you are having people draw from the back seat of a car while there are people in the front seat. Both create very unforgiving situations where problems can occur.
I have a friend who was actually in the SEAL teams. (I didn't believe him at first but at one point we went to the naval base in Newport, where I met a guy who he used to serve with who is now an instructor. He was there for POWERPOINT training. Ha. Nobody can escape it). He told me that there was a guy in his BUD/S class who was shot in training. Like I said earlier, for some people riskier training has real benefit.
My last reply is that I did the room clearing exercise at a class at Academi. Their classes are (were? It was a long time ago) often attended by their own people who are freshening up their skills before going somewhere to guard something for Uncle Sam. The dentist and I were the only non-Academi guys in the class. All of their people were veterans with combat experience.
I did get one heart warming story out of the class.
The assistant instructor had two prosthetic lower legs. He stepped on a mine in Afghanistan. The shock had cracked all of his teeth and they were now starting to rot. He needed a whole mouth full of dental implants. He mentioned this to the dentist and how TriCare and the VA were jerking him around and how no private dentists who could do the work took tri-care.
The dentist (who owned his own practice) said that he would call the office at lunch and see if they could take tri-care. After lunch, he told the guy that it was no problem and with Tri-care the cost would be pretty much zero. The guy just about teared up thanking the dentist.
When we were taking a break, I asked him how they got Tri-Care to pay. He said something like "Oh. They won't pay. They suck. But this poor bastard stepped on a mine defending his country. The least I can do is help him recover physically and emotionally. I'm going to eat all the cost".
We kept in touch for a while after the class and he told me that when he told the implant manufacturer of the situation, they agreed to provide them at no charge. So the dentist donated his time and all the other supplies, and the implant maker donated the implants. Heartwarming. The instructor never knew any better. He was too proud to have take this offer.
Last edited:
There's 2 easy solutions:
-Carry with safety off
-Buy a non-safety grip frame, remove the safety from the FCU, install FCU in the new grip frame. There OEM sig grip frames are really cheap, plus there's some nice aftermarket ones if you want to spend more. I'm pretty sure you could also delete the safety without getting a new grip frame, you would just have an exposed cutout where the safety used to be which will get lint, hair, etc in it.
Glockster30
NES Member
Here is another angle of a Yeager shoot with the photographer squatting between 2 shooters. M1911 is correct as it does violate Rule #4. This is as stupid as stupid gets with shots going off within 2' of the guy's head! If I were one of the shooters on either side of the guy, I would have refused to shoot. F**k Yeager if he thinks that is safe.
View: http://youtu.be/4hiTrgzHhVk?t=1
dcmdon
NES Member
Carrying with the safety off and presumably not practicing swiping the safety off with every draw is generally dumb because it leaves you unprepared for a situation where the safety is accidentally engaged.
With a 365 it's idiotic because you can remove the safety in 5 minutes.
You DO NOT even need to buy a non-safety grip module. Just take the safety out and you are good to go. If you are bothered by the aesthetics of the module with an unnecessary notch in it, then get a new one. But it's absolutely positively NOT necessary. And yes, they are cheap, about $60 for either a Wilson or an Sig.
dcmdon
NES Member
In MA that's not possible if you are buying a new gun from a dealer.Or you could just buy the gun the way it was designed
but it only takes 5 minutes to remove it
Grendizer138
NES Member
Speaking from experience, i was in a class and running my Shield which had a safety that I never engaged.
During a drill my gun would not fire…tap, rack…click. Did a couple of mag changes before I realized when I racked the slide I unknowingly engaged the safety.
Gun was literally sold the next day and replaced with a non-safety version.
chris_1001
NES Member
Ummmm… I have a free state no Saftey 365.
Bought it new from a dealer BEFORE the safety versions were released, maybe before they were even announced.
dcmdon
NES Member
True. I applied Ma55h01e logic to a thread that could have users from any northeastern state.
Mass Residents can't buy a no safety gun from a dealer. Or more accurately, Mass dealers can't sell no-safety guns. But mass residents can create one by spending 5 minutes to remove the safety or buy buying a no safety gun used in the classifieds here.
If the dealer was in MA and they sold you a no-safety gun, they put themselves in legal jeopardy. Not your problem.
Last edited:
GlockJock
NES Member
I own a 365 with a safety (cuz I got it for dirt cheap from a friend, bought it as an 'extra' gun but love the fit and feel etc) . And while I carry with safety off and a chambered round, it's (for me, anyways) also INCREDIBLY EASY to draw and disengage the safety in a single motion. It is, for me personally, the most perfect pistol for my hand that I've ever owned. It fits - for me - perfectly in my hand and the safety is perfect for me also. It provides for a nice, easy, 'fluid', proper quick draw. A little practice (or a lot, cuz it never hurts to have too much practice) at drawing and disengaging the safety and you'll be OK.
Like any activity/task/chore etc, the more you do it the more it becomes like second nature. Most people could probably be blindfolded and make their morning coffee/juice/cereal/toast etc etc just by doing it from memory, from 'rote'/routine etc.
By the time we hit a certain age, most guys could probably even do the 'four S's (schitt/shave/shower/shampoo) in complete darkness/blindfold etc. The human body and our brains are amazingly adaptive.
dcmdon
NES Member
The problem with this logic is right in your username.
Like I said above, I used to shoot a fair number of competitions with a G34 and a 1911. And every once in a while I'd forget to swipe off the safety. If you've just shot 500 rounds through your Glock over the course of a weekend practice session and an IDPA match, what are the chances that THAT muscle memory will kick in on Monday when you are carrying your 365 with a safety.
Do you practice drawing and firing repeatedly while swiping the safety off when getting on target? Like every time? Do you run drills where you draw and fire one shot, re-engage the safety then reholster. repeat repeat?
My guess is that you are young. Because an older guy would be nodding along with me. Once you've screwed. up a few times (and I have) , you tend to want to make things more idiot proof for yourself.
It makes no difference that the safety is pretty ergonomically placed and easy to manipulate. If your brain doesn't tell you to swipe it off, you are still left with a gun that won't fire.
You are lucky in that you own a gun where watching a 5 minute YouTube video allows you to remove the safety and put the gun into a different state that is also 100% factory. You aren't modifying the gun. you are reconfiguring it.
Do yourself a favor and take that safety out. Then it will operate like all the Glocks you own. Remove the opportunity to fail and you can't fail. At least not that way.
I write this as a Glock and 1911 biggot. I don't like Sigs. . . . except for the 365. if you really are a "Glock Jock", make things easy on yourself and configure it to run like a Glock.
Last edited:
chris_1001
NES Member
I got a no safety free state model in mass from a mass dealer
There is a perfectly legal way to do so.
I’d have figured you might know how, but apparently not.
But lots of off roster guns are done this way. I might even have gotten two “more” Glocks this way in the past 2 weeks.
dcmdon
NES Member
I know the way. But you didn't buy a firearm. Not everyone knows a dealer who will work with them this way.
I'm trying to hi light the fact that ANYONE can buy a 365 at any dealer and within 10 minutes have the safety removed in a way that is not a modification of the action, but just a configuration change.
This is different than for example, a modification I made many years ago to a certain Ruger semi auto where I removed the safety on a gun where there wasn't a no-safety model. After doing this, I considered the legal jeopardy I was putting myself in with a gun I might use for defensive purposes. So I re-installed the safety and sold the gun.
On a 365, if you remove the safety, the gun is exactly as configured as if it came fro the factory that way.
CrackPot
NES Member
ATF is well aware Littleton gun dealers use loophole to sell off-limits guns as parts, records show - The Boston Globe
The well-known loophole relies on the state’s definition of a “firearm,” which hasn’t been changed since it was enshrined into law in 1998.
www.bostonglobe.com
The Boston Globe told the entire state where to go
The big brain guys who study this stuff (Hearne, Weems, Gelhaus, Salomon, et al) call it automaticity and overlearning.
They opine that the method or technique that is taught first is the one that becomes the default, but there is also some discussion about the most recent method or technique that is practiced or rehearsed becoming prominent.
Hick's Law plays a factor also.
Pat Rogers (RIP) stated that he had mastered several draw strokes from different positions and that when switching carry methods, it only took him a few dozen repetitions to become attuned enough to rely on it under stress.
Swipe at a safety that is not there is no factor. Forget to disengage a safety that is there can result in a negative outcome.
So train, it does take more effort than playing dress up and taking shit classes from shit instructors
chris_1001
NES Member
This is exactly why I do idpa, uspsa, 3-gun etc.
Practice under the clock.
Nope. Not an operator.
But I’m petty sure under stress I’ll outperform and out live you.
Practice is better than shit posting.
Wait, you shoot IDPA...well, I didn't know you shoot IDPA...that changes everything...are you a sharp shooter?
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
chris_1001
NES Member
Ok, ok… lol, catching my breath…Wait, you shoot IDPA...well, I didn't know you shoot IDPA...that changes everything...are you a sharp shooter?
I do all the different competitions
Actually, I am a SS
It’s better than a static range.
If you are a sharpshooter in IDPA, then you are far behind Supermoto.
chris_1001
NES Member
Maybe. Never met him.
Im open to this, I'm not offended.
Just saying I compete to improve my skills.
Oh, you're open to it.... what happened to "But I’m petty sure under stress I’ll outperform and out live you"
Not so confident now?
Last edited:
chris_1001
NES Member
Oh Geeze. Here we go with the NES flex.
I’m saying I’m not an amateur. And I’m willing to be wrong.
Where are you shooting locally?
And where in your post below do I assume you are a grand master and just not a hater?
chris_1001
NES Member
Ok.
Im not getting paid to shoot. So yes. I’m an amateur.
Hope to meet you in person at a shoot. I’ll humbly shake your hand.
Similar threads
