Manual safety or not? 365X

Just to weigh in on the last 2 pages of comments.

I take classes for two reasons.
1) it might be useful some day
2) its fun

Some of the stuff in some of the classes isn't anything I'm ever likely to use in real life. But it's fun. So I participate.

Some of thethings described above are dangerous, but do not violate the 4 rules of firearm safety. Having someone down range doesn't violate rule #1. Nobody's pointing a gun at anyone. But it creates an environment where minor errors can create huge risk. If a 10 deg pivot is the difference between pointing at someone and not pointing at someone, then it's probably not worth the scenario.

It doesn't matter if you are putting someone downrange intentionally or if you are having people draw from the back seat of a car while there are people in the front seat. Both create very unforgiving situations where problems can occur.

I have a friend who was actually in the SEAL teams. (I didn't believe him at first but at one point we went to the naval base in Newport, where I met a guy who he used to serve with who is now an instructor. He was there for POWERPOINT training. Ha. Nobody can escape it). He told me that there was a guy in his BUD/S class who was shot in training. Like I said earlier, for some people riskier training has real benefit.

My last reply is that I did the room clearing exercise at a class at Academi. Their classes are (were? It was a long time ago) often attended by their own people who are freshening up their skills before going somewhere to guard something for Uncle Sam. The dentist and I were the only non-Academi guys in the class. All of their people were veterans with combat experience.

I did get one heart warming story out of the class.

The assistant instructor had two prosthetic lower legs. He stepped on a mine in Afghanistan. The shock had cracked all of his teeth and they were now starting to rot. He needed a whole mouth full of dental implants. He mentioned this to the dentist and how TriCare and the VA were jerking him around and how no private dentists who could do the work took tri-care.

The dentist (who owned his own practice) said that he would call the office at lunch and see if they could take tri-care. After lunch, he told the guy that it was no problem and with Tri-care the cost would be pretty much zero. The guy just about teared up thanking the dentist.

When we were taking a break, I asked him how they got Tri-Care to pay. He said something like "Oh. They won't pay. They suck. But this poor bastard stepped on a mine defending his country. The least I can do is help him recover physically and emotionally. I'm going to eat all the cost".

We kept in touch for a while after the class and he told me that when he told the implant manufacturer of the situation, they agreed to provide them at no charge. So the dentist donated his time and all the other supplies, and the implant maker donated the implants. Heartwarming. The instructor never knew any better. He was too proud to have take this offer.
 
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Buck F said:
The 365, like many (most?) striker fire guns, is designed to be operated without a safety and carried w/ a round in the chamber. The only reason the MA version has a manual safety was so they'd get approved to be sold in MA.

If you keep it in a proper holster & train, there should be no issue going without a safety and one in the tube. Ironically, you should probably train more if you're using the model w/ the optional manual safety. When I first started carrying I carried unloaded for a few days just to get used to having it on me, then I graduated to mag loaded without one in the chamber. Few days later I started carrying loaded with one in the pipe. The gun I carried was a striker fire that didn't come w/ a .manual safety & I had a good kydex holster.
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There's 2 easy solutions:
-Carry with safety off
-Buy a non-safety grip frame, remove the safety from the FCU, install FCU in the new grip frame. There OEM sig grip frames are really cheap, plus there's some nice aftermarket ones if you want to spend more. I'm pretty sure you could also delete the safety without getting a new grip frame, you would just have an exposed cutout where the safety used to be which will get lint, hair, etc in it.
 
Grendizer138 said:
I disagree with simply being “down range” as a violation of the 4 rules, it’s a “range rule”.

But I agree that it’s unnecessary in this instance.
Click to expand...

Here is another angle of a Yeager shoot with the photographer squatting between 2 shooters. M1911 is correct as it does violate Rule #4. This is as stupid as stupid gets with shots going off within 2' of the guy's head! If I were one of the shooters on either side of the guy, I would have refused to shoot. F**k Yeager if he thinks that is safe.


View: http://youtu.be/4hiTrgzHhVk?t=1
 
P51MA said:
There's 2 easy solutions:
-Carry with safety off
-Buy a non-safety grip frame, remove the safety from the FCU, install FCU in the new grip frame. There OEM sig grip frames are really cheap, plus there's some nice aftermarket ones if you want to spend more. I'm pretty sure you could also delete the safety without getting a new grip frame, you would just have an exposed cutout where the safety used to be which will get lint, hair, etc in it.
Click to expand...
Or you could just buy the gun the way it was designed 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
P51MA said:
There's 2 easy solutions:
-Carry with safety off
-Buy a non-safety grip frame, remove the safety from the FCU, install FCU in the new grip frame. There OEM sig grip frames are really cheap, plus there's some nice aftermarket ones if you want to spend more. I'm pretty sure you could also delete the safety without getting a new grip frame, you would just have an exposed cutout where the safety used to be which will get lint, hair, etc in it.
Click to expand...
Carrying with the safety off and presumably not practicing swiping the safety off with every draw is generally dumb because it leaves you unprepared for a situation where the safety is accidentally engaged.

With a 365 it's idiotic because you can remove the safety in 5 minutes.

You DO NOT even need to buy a non-safety grip module. Just take the safety out and you are good to go. If you are bothered by the aesthetics of the module with an unnecessary notch in it, then get a new one. But it's absolutely positively NOT necessary. And yes, they are cheap, about $60 for either a Wilson or an Sig.
 
dcmdon said:
Carrying with the safety off and presumably not practicing swiping the safety off with every draw is generally dumb because it leaves you unprepared for a situation where the safety is accidentally engaged.

With a 365 it's idiotic because you can remove the safety in 5 minutes.

You DO NOT even need to buy a non-safety grip module. Just take the safety out and you are good to go. If you are bothered by the aesthetics of the module with an unnecessary notch in it, then get a new one. But it's absolutely positively NOT necessary. And yes, they are cheap, about $60 for either a Wilson or an Sig.
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Speaking from experience, i was in a class and running my Shield which had a safety that I never engaged.

During a drill my gun would not fire…tap, rack…click. Did a couple of mag changes before I realized when I racked the slide I unknowingly engaged the safety.

Gun was literally sold the next day and replaced with a non-safety version.
 
dcmdon said:
In MA that's not possible if you are buying a new gun from a dealer.

but it only takes 5 minutes to remove it
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Ummmm… I have a free state no Saftey 365.

Bought it new from a dealer BEFORE the safety versions were released, maybe before they were even announced.
 
chris_1001 said:
Ummmm… I have a free state no Saftey 365.

Bought it new from a dealer BEFORE the safety versions were released, maybe before they were even announced.
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True. I applied Ma55h01e logic to a thread that could have users from any northeastern state.

Mass Residents can't buy a no safety gun from a dealer. Or more accurately, Mass dealers can't sell no-safety guns. But mass residents can create one by spending 5 minutes to remove the safety or buy buying a no safety gun used in the classifieds here.

If the dealer was in MA and they sold you a no-safety gun, they put themselves in legal jeopardy. Not your problem.
 
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LLF said:
The safety on 365s is very easy to manipulate. I have both safety and non-safety models. If you're concerned about releasing the safety in an emergency a little practice at the range is all you need. It would be much better to get proficient with the safety and carry the pistol with a round in the chamber than to have to chamber a round in an emergency situation.
Personally I don't like striker fire guns. My daily carry gun is a CZ 75 Compact with a decocker. I carry that gun with a round in the chamber and the hammer decocked.
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I own a 365 with a safety (cuz I got it for dirt cheap from a friend, bought it as an 'extra' gun but love the fit and feel etc) . And while I carry with safety off and a chambered round, it's (for me, anyways) also INCREDIBLY EASY to draw and disengage the safety in a single motion. It is, for me personally, the most perfect pistol for my hand that I've ever owned. It fits - for me - perfectly in my hand and the safety is perfect for me also. It provides for a nice, easy, 'fluid', proper quick draw. A little practice (or a lot, cuz it never hurts to have too much practice) at drawing and disengaging the safety and you'll be OK.
Like any activity/task/chore etc, the more you do it the more it becomes like second nature. Most people could probably be blindfolded and make their morning coffee/juice/cereal/toast etc etc just by doing it from memory, from 'rote'/routine etc.
By the time we hit a certain age, most guys could probably even do the 'four S's (schitt/shave/shower/shampoo) in complete darkness/blindfold etc. The human body and our brains are amazingly adaptive.
 
GlockJock said:
I own a 365 with a safety (cuz I got it for dirt cheap from a friend, bought it as an 'extra' gun but love the fit and feel etc) . And while I carry with safety off and a chambered round, it's (for me, anyways) also INCREDIBLY EASY to draw and disengage the safety in a single motion. It is, for me personally, the most perfect pistol for my hand that I've ever owned. It fits - for me - perfectly in my hand and the safety is perfect for me also. It provides for a nice, easy, 'fluid', proper quick draw. A little practice (or a lot, cuz it never hurts to have too much practice) at drawing and disengaging the safety and you'll be OK.
Like any activity/task/chore etc, the more you do it the more it becomes like second nature. Most people could probably be blindfolded and make their morning coffee/juice/cereal/toast etc etc just by doing it from memory, from 'rote'/routine etc.
By the time we hit a certain age, most guys could probably even do the 'four S's (schitt/shave/shower/shampoo) in complete darkness/blindfold etc. The human body and our brains are amazingly adaptive.
Click to expand...

The problem with this logic is right in your username.

Like I said above, I used to shoot a fair number of competitions with a G34 and a 1911. And every once in a while I'd forget to swipe off the safety. If you've just shot 500 rounds through your Glock over the course of a weekend practice session and an IDPA match, what are the chances that THAT muscle memory will kick in on Monday when you are carrying your 365 with a safety.

Do you practice drawing and firing repeatedly while swiping the safety off when getting on target? Like every time? Do you run drills where you draw and fire one shot, re-engage the safety then reholster. repeat repeat?

My guess is that you are young. Because an older guy would be nodding along with me. Once you've screwed. up a few times (and I have) , you tend to want to make things more idiot proof for yourself.

It makes no difference that the safety is pretty ergonomically placed and easy to manipulate. If your brain doesn't tell you to swipe it off, you are still left with a gun that won't fire.

You are lucky in that you own a gun where watching a 5 minute YouTube video allows you to remove the safety and put the gun into a different state that is also 100% factory. You aren't modifying the gun. you are reconfiguring it.

Do yourself a favor and take that safety out. Then it will operate like all the Glocks you own. Remove the opportunity to fail and you can't fail. At least not that way.

I write this as a Glock and 1911 biggot. I don't like Sigs. . . . except for the 365. if you really are a "Glock Jock", make things easy on yourself and configure it to run like a Glock.
 
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Your grip mechanics should be that it would push down on the thumb safety whether there is one there or not. It's not a gun issue, its a training correctly issue.
 
dcmdon said:
True. I applied Ma55h01e logic to a thread that could have users from any northeastern state.

Mass Residents can't buy a no safety gun from a dealer. Or more accurately, Mass dealers can't sell no-safety guns. But mass residents can create one by spending 5 minutes to remove the safety or buy buying a no safety gun used in the classifieds here.

If the dealer was in MA and they sold you a no-safety gun, they put themselves in legal jeopardy. Not your problem.
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I got a no safety free state model in mass from a mass dealer

There is a perfectly legal way to do so.

I’d have figured you might know how, but apparently not.

But lots of off roster guns are done this way. I might even have gotten two “more” Glocks this way in the past 2 weeks.
 
chris_1001 said:
I got a no safety free state model in mass from a mass dealer

There is a perfectly legal way to do so.

I’d have figured you might know how, but apparently not.

But lots of off roster guns are done this way. I might even have gotten two “more” Glocks this way in the past 2 weeks.
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I know the way. But you didn't buy a firearm. Not everyone knows a dealer who will work with them this way.

I'm trying to hi light the fact that ANYONE can buy a 365 at any dealer and within 10 minutes have the safety removed in a way that is not a modification of the action, but just a configuration change.

This is different than for example, a modification I made many years ago to a certain Ruger semi auto where I removed the safety on a gun where there wasn't a no-safety model. After doing this, I considered the legal jeopardy I was putting myself in with a gun I might use for defensive purposes. So I re-installed the safety and sold the gun.

On a 365, if you remove the safety, the gun is exactly as configured as if it came fro the factory that way.
 
dcmdon said:
I know the way. But you didn't buy a firearm. Not everyone knows a dealer who will work with them this way.

I'm trying to hi light the fact that ANYONE can buy a 365 at any dealer and within 10 minutes have the safety removed in a way that is not a modification of the action, but just a configuration change.

This is different than for example, a modification I made many years ago to a certain Ruger semi auto where I removed the safety on a gun where there wasn't a no-safety model. After doing this, I considered the legal jeopardy I was putting myself in with a gun I might use for defensive purposes. So I re-installed the safety and sold the gun.

On a 365, if you remove the safety, the gun is exactly as configured as if it came fro the factory that way.
Click to expand...
www.bostonglobe.com

ATF is well aware Littleton gun dealers use loophole to sell off-limits guns as parts, records show - The Boston Globe

The well-known loophole relies on the state’s definition of a “firearm,” which hasn’t been changed since it was enshrined into law in 1998.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com

The Boston Globe told the entire state where to go
 
GlockJock said:
Like any activity/task/chore etc, the more you do it the more it becomes like second nature. Most people could probably be blindfolded and make their morning coffee/juice/cereal/toast etc etc just by doing it from memory, from 'rote'/routine etc.
Click to expand...
dcmdon said:
If you've just shot 500 rounds through your Glock over the course of a weekend practice session and an IDPA match, what are the chances that THAT muscle memory will kick in on Monday when you are carrying your 365 with a safety.
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The big brain guys who study this stuff (Hearne, Weems, Gelhaus, Salomon, et al) call it automaticity and overlearning.

They opine that the method or technique that is taught first is the one that becomes the default, but there is also some discussion about the most recent method or technique that is practiced or rehearsed becoming prominent.

Hick's Law plays a factor also.

Pat Rogers (RIP) stated that he had mastered several draw strokes from different positions and that when switching carry methods, it only took him a few dozen repetitions to become attuned enough to rely on it under stress.

Swipe at a safety that is not there is no factor. Forget to disengage a safety that is there can result in a negative outcome.
 
Supermoto said:
We are all amateurs, none of us are on a assault team, adding unnecessary risk so that you can live out your fantasy is stupid.

But keep wearing your costume and pretend you're something you could never be.
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Exactly, which is why nobody who's an amateur and doesn't train should have a manual thumb safety. They'll fumble it under adrenaline.
 
Supermoto said:
We are all amateurs, none of us are on a assault team, adding unnecessary risk so that you can live out your fantasy is stupid.

But keep wearing your costume and pretend you're something you could never be.
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This is exactly why I do idpa, uspsa, 3-gun etc.

Practice under the clock.

Nope. Not an operator.

But I’m petty sure under stress I’ll outperform and out live you.

Practice is better than shit posting.
 
chris_1001 said:
This is exactly why I do idpa, uspsa, 3-gun etc.

Practice under the clock.

Nope. Not an operator.

But I’m petty sure under stress I’ll outperform and out live you.

Practice is better than shit posting.
Click to expand...

Wait, you shoot IDPA...well, I didn't know you shoot IDPA...that changes everything...are you a sharp shooter?

[rofl]
 
Supermoto said:
Wait, you shoot IDPA...well, I didn't know you shoot IDPA...that changes everything...are you a sharp shooter?

[rofl]
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Ok, ok… lol, catching my breath…

I do all the different competitions

Actually, I am a SS

It’s better than a static range.
 
Supermoto said:
Oh, you're open to it.... what happened to "But I’m petty sure under stress I’ll outperform and out live you"

Not so confident now?
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Oh Geeze. Here we go with the NES flex.

I’m saying I’m not an amateur. And I’m willing to be wrong.

Where are you shooting locally?

And where in your post below do I assume you are a grand master and just not a hater?

IMG_8646.jpeg
 

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