Do they see military history for background checks?

[Rob Boudrie]

mark056 is qute right; the whole point of nonjudicial punishment is that it's meant to provide a clean slate.

So was the juvenile justice system in MA, but we see where the concept of soluble glue on sealed records can lead.

 

[Martlet]

When will you be beatified?

You must have had a very boring military experience.

I've just been good at not getting caught.

I should have said "yet".

 

[Meanie-14]

Why so? I think it is actually illegal for someone to ask you for your DD214 unless it is a government type job.

I think if it were illegal, Maine wouldn't ask any veteran applying for a concealed carry permit to include a copy of their DD214 along with their birth certificate. They will reject any applicant who was dishonorably discharged within the five years previous to the date of the application.

Up here it also "[d]emonstrates to the issuing authority a knowledge of handgun safety."
"The demonstration of knowledge of handgun safety to the issuing authority may not be required of any applicant who holds a valid state permit to carry a concealed firearm as of April 15, 1990 or of any applicant who was or is in any of the Armed Forces of the United States and has received at least basic firearms training."
Title 25 MRSA, §2003. Permits to carry concealed handguns

If Maine will refuse an applicant for having been dishonorably discharged, I can only imagine how (at least some) Mass. issuing authorities would pounce on that.
I cheerfully sent copies of my two ('74-'78 and '78-'82) to Augusta a few weeks ago, not just because they said to, but because like somebody said above (paraphrasing here), "it's the Big Green Light."

I'm pretty sure everyone in the military, enlisted anyway, gets at least one Article 15 in their time of service,

Yeah, huh? Trust me, I was no angel, but besides the Small Arms Expert Marksman Ribbons listed on both of my 214's, the AFGCM is also on both of them.
But maybe those are, as the old saying goes, "just for not getting caught."

As others have said, the big thing should be whether or not it has "HONORABLE" in all the right places. Anything not on the DD214 shouldn't be an issue. That's my 2¢ worth, anyway.

 

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by dont tread on me1775

Exactly. I'm pretty sure everyone in the military, enlisted anyway, gets at least one Article 15 in their time of service, I just think my rights were a little violated when he asked me if I got any of them.




Not me.

Me either. 4 years active duty.

I will say that thru an Army screwup, I was nearly court marshaled once. Once the screwup was uncovered the CO apologized to me.

In the ASA/NSA very few Art 15s were handed out. We were told our clearances made for court marshals instead.

 

[OB1Kenobi]

Not me.

Lol. I plead the FIF. [

 

[Gonzo]

I almost got one, I was temporarily assigned to a training command, and when they informed my squadron what happened my squadron said they'd take care of it. My XO and CMC slapped me on the back and said It's nothing we all haven't done before, don't get caught again, go back to work. Training command wanted to hang me.

 

[Windwalker]

Not me, either. Four years.

 

[dont tread on me1775]

Well hopefully I will get my FID either way, I have talked to some vets who say they do see it and others who say they don't lol.

 

[dwarven1]

Speaking as a retired officer myself, it is unduly harsh. The whole concept of the Article 15 when the UCMJ replaced the Articles of War after WW2 was to allow for minor offenses to be dealt with in house with no lasting stigma attached to a service member's career. Of course as incipient careerism invaded the ranks this concept faded and many adopted the harsh tight assed attitude promulgated by yourself. Some 18 year old kid gets two weeks extra duty because they missed formation several times should hardly be something that should stigmatize them for the rest of their lives. If there is a pattern of behavior, then it is a different story.

Clearly the corncob that was firmly embedded in your arse upon reaching field grade rank has remained firmly embedded. I'm just glad you were never my senior rater and that I never served with you, although there are certainly plenty more where you came from. My local MOAA Chapter has several like you and I take great delight in busting their chops when I see them. Pompous, self important and oh yes, harsh.

That may be, quite simply, the BEST ass-reaming it has ever been my pleasure to read. Not even one obscenity, either. Brilliant, Mark. Simply brilliant.

Lol. I always forget. Whenever I see 1775, I'm always thinking 10 Nov 1775 lol...

Funny... when I think 1775, I think of April 19th, 1775.

Mr. Tool,

I am the state security clearance liaison for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts with the Dept of Homeland Security. I nominate state employees for federal security clearances, and frankly I do not know if you are simply arrogant and full of yourself or well intentioned and anal or perhaps a bit of both. I am quite familiar with background checks in that context and in the other hat I wear as an intelligence analyst for the Massachusetts State Police.

I'd respectfully suggest that perhaps you are just a tad too professional for us here in the Northeast and since your profile indicted you are located in Illinois, the most repressive state for gun laws in this country, it might serve your interests and that of this forum to focus your efforts in that part of the country. I'm sure that there are gun forums and gun rights groups in the mid-west that can profit from your experience, superior intellect, and knowledge. I'm guessing that you were one of the finest Commanders in the U.S. Navy and that you spent countless hours pleasing your superiors while exacting painstaking excellent performances from your subordinates for which you probably received the lion's share of the credit.

My sensing is that you are simply not a good fit here and while everyone applauds your devotion to the 2A, you may wish to consider reading How to Win Friends and Influence People by the late Dale Carnegie, because your current style is not achieving that objective.

I don't hide behind screen names.

Sincerely,

Mark Louttit
Leominster, Ma


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mark056 again.

Once again....in a given context...clearly even expunged items are available to local LEO in reviewing an application..

Curiously...here in Illinois...LEOs can see anything expunged on a person..that a private background check won't show...are your rules the same?

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. [/Inigo Montoya]

There is no "expunged" in MA - they keep everything in Marxachusetts. They do "seal" records, which means diddly-squat as it seems like more and more agencies can read "sealed" records.

Expunged means that the record is GONE. Removed. Torn up. It ain't there any more. In NJ, the only other state I'm familiar with laws in, expunged records simply do not exist. An arrest record that's been expunged has been removed. The only copy of the record is with the FBI and is (theoretically, at least) only opened if there is another arrest. Or so I'm told by a friend who's a lawyer in NJ.

 

[dont tread on me1775]

Me either. 4 years active duty.

I will say that thru an Army screwup, I was nearly court marshaled once. Once the screwup was uncovered the CO apologized to me.

In the ASA/NSA very few Art 15s were handed out. We were told our clearances made for court marshals instead.

I guess it depends on the person and where you are. I got the impression that most do only because almost the majority of Marines I have all been with and met have all gotten something minor lol.

 

[Admin]

I guess it depends on the person and where you are. I got the impression that most do only because almost the majority of Marines I have all been with and met have all gotten something minor lol.

The only Marines that I knew who had the highest percentage of NJP's were the cooks and the armorers. Were you a cook?

As Martlet said, it's a matter of getting caught. Apparently the cooks and armorers were pretty dense.

 

[dhawk69]

The motor T guys used to get hammered alot too lol

 

[garandman]

Not in the Corps brother. 4x4 or 6x2. Any less and something happened./

My buddy joined the USMC for two years in 1976 and they were very happy to have him. His choice of MOS was restricted but he wanted to be an infantryman anyway.

So depending on the needs of the services, HMMV.

I've hired a number of veterans and I consider virtually all NJP to be the classic case of "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement."

 

[dont tread on me1775]

The only Marines that I knew who had the highest percentage of NJP's were the cooks and the armorers. Were you a cook?

As Martlet said, it's a matter of getting caught. Apparently the cooks and armorers were pretty dense.

Lol no.

 

[dukecola]

Yes, a lot of time the CO just wanted to scare the member, NJP was a good place to chew them out and "Scare them Straight" so to speak. As for Boatswains mates, the standing requirement to promote to BM3 was to make BM2 a few times.

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

If they had the ability to check military records, I would have never joined this board. I went in an E-2, got promoted three times and was discharged an E-1. 'Nuff said.

 

[CoastieRon]

Yes, a lot of time the CO just wanted to scare the member, NJP was a good place to chew them out and "Scare them Straight" so to speak. As for Boatswains mates, the standing requirement to promote to BM3 was to make BM2 a few times.

I knew a few that went through that plan. I had an MKC book me once. My BM1 told him to go **** himself. That 4910 disappeared. I got lucky a lot......

sent from the T3

 

[dont tread on me1775]

LOL Sound like my CO GySgt:

"Muthah ****ah, I been meritoriously promoted to gunny 3 times. Know why? 'Cause I don't give a **** who you be, you give me shit fo no good reason, you gonna get it right back."

That's a Marine attitude alright haha

 

[Nickle]

Speaking as a retired officer myself, it is unduly harsh. The whole concept of the Article 15 when the UCMJ replaced the Articles of War after WW2 was to allow for minor offenses to be dealt with in house with no lasting stigma attached to a service member's career. Of course as incipient careerism invaded the ranks this concept faded and many adopted the harsh tight assed attitude promulgated by yourself. Some 18 year old kid gets two weeks extra duty because they missed formation several times should hardly be something that should stigmatize them for the rest of their lives. If there is a pattern of behavior, then it is a different story.

Clearly the corncob that was firmly embedded in your arse upon reaching field grade rank has remained firmly embedded. I'm just glad you were never my senior rater and that I never served with you, although there are certainly plenty more where you came from. My local MOAA Chapter has several like you and I take great delight in busting their chops when I see them. Pompous, self important and oh yes, harsh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I concur. And, I am a retired civilian DoD employee, even was the Supervisor of a Field Maintenance Shop before retiring.

That said, those Article 15's won't hurt you. I know for fact that they won't keep you from getting a security clearance, or passing a firearms background check. Anything that negative almost always ends up as a Special or General court. And, by the way, I was an MOS qualified paralegal too.

 

[dont tread on me1775]

I concur. And, I am a retired civilian DoD employee, even was the Supervisor of a Field Maintenance Shop before retiring.

That said, those Article 15's won't hurt you. I know for fact that they won't keep you from getting a security clearance, or passing a firearms background check. Anything that negative almost always ends up as a Special or General court. And, by the way, I was an MOS qualified paralegal too.

Thank you for the response

 

[Nickle]

yvw

 

[Skysoldier]

First of all......Article-15's are nothing to even worry about.

I served from 66 to 73, and I must have had a least 20 Article-15's

Article-15's are joke.

The only records that will follow you, is if you got a Court Martial, because that is were they draw the line on information sharing levels.

A Summary Court Martial
A Special Court Martial
A General Court Marshal..........these three incidents will show up later in your background checks.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The whole concept of the Article 15 when the UCMJ replaced the Articles of War after WW2 was to allow for minor offenses to be dealt with in house with no lasting stigma attached to a service member's career.

Sort of like how the whole concept for "juvenile adjudications" in MA was corrective, rather than penal, and designed with no lasting stigma or restrictions on the juvenile's rights upon reaching adulthood

 

[dont tread on me1775]

Thanks for the replies