Drunk teen things neighbors house is his, enters, shot to death.

I'm in mass. We do NOT have a castle doctrine here. Wish we did. With the lack of a castle doctrine my family's concern is that if you fire, you must fire lethally. Period. Because dead man can't tell lies, or sue, or anything. With that in mind, I fully understand the fear that anyone in your home poses a threat. Especially because I have kids. The kid put himself at risk becoming intoxicated, and owns whatever followed.

I can't help but that a drunk kid, and an assailant, may be distinguishable.

Next problem. Out of fear of our rights being attacked, gun owners are typically incapable of acknowledging a potential mistake made by gun owners. Don't blame ya. During some recents gumshoes several people were shot accidentally due to pure stupidity. This of course made national news. This stuff can make us all look stupid, regardless of fault. It's perfectly reasonable to ask if the target was identifiable in any manner. 2nd gun rule I taught my child was not to aim at anything you can't identify, and are not willing to destroy. So. My guns have lights.
 
Golddiggie said:
So a kid breaks into a neighbors house because he was drunk (at 16) after slipping out of where he was living (after being grounded)... The police need to pay more attention to where he got drunk than the adult that shot him for B&E. Seriously, the kid broke in, and set of the alarm. Anyone with half a brain cell left would have gotten out of the house once the alarm was sounding.


IF the kid had listened to his parents, he would be alive today.

BTW, how fvcked up do you need to be to mistake another house for your own? Seriously, I don't get it. I've never had that happen, ever.

Call me what you want, but I can't get upset over this. IMO, natural selection at work.
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Really? Natural selection at work? Come on dont be a dick. I enjoy drinking as much as the next guy. I have friends who cannot handle they're booze and could do something dumb like this. But to say this is natural selection because the kid made 1 mistake at AGE 16 and it cost him his life?

Again I dont fault the home owner. Just too bad it ended like this.
 
Sir_Macadoo said:
Irrelevant. Fear of harm is all that matters. A strange silouette just set of your house alarm and is coming up the stairs.
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I know that and I agree, I wasn't arguing that

just questioning how anyone knows so matter of factly that he thought he was in his own house

seems like something that could be debated
 
mattyw said:
I know that and I agree, I wasn't arguing that

just questioning how anyone knows so matter of factly that he thought he was in his own house

seems like something that could be debated
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Not a totally unreasonable question, but I think if we look at the most likely reason, a case of mistaken location seems most likely, given the deceased's personal history and character (to the extent that it has been revealed to us). Intoxicated people thinking they are at one location when they really are at another is a fairly common occurrence. There does not, at this time, appear to be criminal intent manifested ny the deceased. Perhaps the results of the investigation will reveal otherwise, but I'm guessing that it will be unlikely.
 
Without him alive to argue his actions or intentions, it may never be known. May have been drunk and decided to rob the place. Exactly the sad reason for DEADLY force.
 
Golddiggie said:
BTW, how fvcked up do you need to be to mistake another house for your own? Seriously, I don't get it. I've never had that happen, ever.

Call me what you want, but I can't get upset over this. IMO, natural selection at work.
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I know a kid that alcohol is not kind to, everyone has there own reactions to drinking and how much it takes to to get to a point that you must hold on to the front lawn to keep yourself from falling off the earth,

I do not blame the guy who shot the kid, it is sad, but you cant blame the home owner, besides the kid in his drunken state could have died from so many things at that point its amazing he made it into the home
 
My first house was half way in the two mile walk from the low income apartments to the bar area. One night I had a drunk guy banging on my door "Jimmy let me in!" I screamed at him that he was at the wrong house and that I have a .357 pointed at the door if he broke in. 911 call had the cops at the house in 5 minutes, the drunk was on my porch pissing off the edge when they arrived. I had the presence of mind to put the revolver down before opening the door to talk to the police.

I've also had kids unplanned sleeping over in my basement after playing XBOX until 2 in the morning. One got up to get a drink from the kitchen around 3 and dropped a glass on the floor scaring the crap out of me and almost putting me in action mode. It woke my son who yelled at his friends.

stuff can happen
 
Cap said:
Wouldn't you always fear for your safety when someone breaks into your home? Its sad we live in a time where someone breaking into a house can be a "victim".
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Thats Massachusetts. If your asleep and the victim of a home invasion and you shoot the guy he then becomes the victim. If you shoot him your wrong, you should have left your house with him in it or barracaded your self into a room until police get there. Thats bulls##t. I hate this state. I feel bad for both parties in Virginia but I hope the Home owner makes out in this case.
 
rep308 said:
My first house was half way in the two mile walk from the low income apartments to the bar area. One night I had a drunk guy banging on my door "Jimmy let me in!" I screamed at him that he was at the wrong house and that I have a .357 pointed at the door if he broke in. 911 call had the cops at the house in 5 minutes, the drunk was on my porch pissing off the edge when they arrived. I had the presence of mind to put the revolver down before opening the door to talk to the police.

I've also had kids unplanned sleeping over in my basement after playing XBOX until 2 in the morning. One got up to get a drink from the kitchen around 3 and dropped a glass on the floor scaring the crap out of me and almost putting me in action mode. It woke my son who yelled at his friends.

stuff can happen
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I here ya, you kinda have to have who is in your home in the back of your mind, like if kids are in your home you must take into consideration that they may do stupid crap in the middle of the night. But if you live alone or with your wife, and she is with you, that bump in the night just got a hole lot scarer.

I dont put wrong doing on the home owner since i was not there but target identification is importent
 
He set off an alarm climbing through a window and went upstairs towards the guy's bedroom. Do that in my house and you get shot.

This is PSGWSP all the way.
 
Glockguy19 said:
Really? Natural selection at work? ... But to say this is natural selection because the kid made 1 mistake at AGE 16 and it cost him his life? ... Again I dont fault the home owner. Just too bad it ended like this.
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Actually, it seems like the kid made far more than one mistake:

1. Whatever it was that got him grounded in the first place
2. Sneaking out of the house late at night after being grounded
3. & 4. Going wherever and getting blind drunk (that's a two-fer: drunk + underage)
5. Not taking a cab or asking for a ride or calling his folks to get back home (that might have been the worst decision of all)
6. Breaking into a home (regardless of whether it was his own home, a neighbor's, or a stranger's).

All that said, it's still a tragedy. But I definitely do not fault the home owner, who likely will never get over it.
 
xtry51 said:
He set off an alarm climbing through a window and went upstairs towards the guy's bedroom. Do that in my house and you get shot.

This is PSGWSP all the way.
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...and (despite the fact that, at 16 I looked like I was 12) many/most sixteen year old "well-liked basketball players" would easily pass as an adult, especially at night, having just broken into someone's home, and even if illuminated by a flashlight beam. And sixteen ain't exactly a "child" - sorry. There are many sixteen year old thugs.
 
K7500 said:
I'm in mass. We do NOT have a castle doctrine here. Wish we did. With the lack of a castle doctrine my family's concern is that if you fire, you must fire lethally. Period. Because dead man can't tell lies, or sue, or anything. With that in mind, I fully understand the fear that anyone in your home poses a threat. Especially because I have kids. The kid put himself at risk becoming intoxicated, and owns whatever followed.

I can't help but that a drunk kid, and an assailant, may be distinguishable.

Next problem. Out of fear of our rights being attacked, gun owners are typically incapable of acknowledging a potential mistake made by gun owners. Don't blame ya. During some recents gumshoes several people were shot accidentally due to pure stupidity. This of course made national news. This stuff can make us all look stupid, regardless of fault. It's perfectly reasonable to ask if the target was identifiable in any manner. 2nd gun rule I taught my child was not to aim at anything you can't identify, and are not willing to destroy. So. My guns have lights.
Click to expand...


I'm a fan of the castle doctrine but you should still have a clear idea of who you're shooting, whether they're armed etc.

Reminds me of that guy a few years ago that shot his fiance in a dark hallway and killed her.
The kid screwed up. The homeowner has to live with the consequences.
 
Almost like that college girl last year put west (i think) that was hammered, went into some millionaires mansion and got shot. Albeit it was in the hip or something, but regardless, like the rest of you, ive never mistaken someone elses property for mine at the end of the night

Sent from my Apple I
 
There was an episode on 'The Best Defense' just recently. It was basically the same story and they are all based on real incidents. In that case the homeowner shot a drunk person in his home because the drunk was coming toward him and did not heed his verbal warnings to leave. Intruder was not armed but if the intruder continues to move forward at some point you have to protect yourself and the gun. Looking at it from afar it appears a better solution would have been Pepper spray. In the television case the homeowners doors were unlocked. If the doors were locked and the alarm is sounding a reasonable person would conclude that the intruder is a serious threat. That very fact was discussed on the show.
 
Realtor MA said:
There was an episode on 'The Best Defense' just recently. It was basically the same story and they are all based on real incidents. In that case the homeowner shot a drunk person in his home because the drunk was coming toward him and did not heed his verbal warnings to leave. Intruder was not armed but if the intruder continues to move forward at some point you have to protect yourself and the gun. Looking at it from afar it appears a better solution would have been Pepper spray. In the television case the homeowners doors were unlocked. If the doors were locked and the alarm is sounding a reasonable person would conclude that the intruder is a serious threat. That very fact was discussed on the show.
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Never bring pepper spray to a gun fight. And you have to assume the worst if someone broke into your house: that they also have a firearm and are ready to use it. If you don't you're taking a chance with your life.

After re-reading the article, it is an ASSUMPTION that the kid thought it was his house.

Early Sunday morning on his way back from the party, Caleb hopped a fence behind what he thought was his own home, his father said
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The father couldn't possibly know that, the kid could have been actually planning to break in.
 
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I agree with the identifying your target part, but if I'm awaken at o dark two with alarms blaring and seeing a stranger in the house, she better look like drunken Kate Upton in heat and he better be flat on his stomach for me to hold my fire.

Lighten the mood:

 
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Without getting too into the weeds, I was under the impression that with most stand your ground laws you have to show that you were in fear because they showed some type of threat. IE You can't just shoot someone that you know is unarmed and NO threat who walks in your house. I thought you needed more then them just being there, I may be wrong.
 
PrimusTactical said:
Without getting too into the weeds, I was under the impression that with most stand your ground laws you have to show that you were in fear because they showed some type of threat. IE You can't just shoot someone that you know is unarmed and NO threat who walks in your house. I thought you needed more then them just being there, I may be wrong.
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I would think most reasonable people would consider anyone breaking into your home in the middle of the night a threat.
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...k-in-clutching-knife-police-article-1.1170560

how about the dad who killed his own son, who was breaking into his aunts house, if the dad did not have a gun, the kid would be alive, but the aunt could have been the one dead, because he had a knife and was wearing a ski mask. the moral of the story is dont break into houses, people might just think you are up to no good.
 
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PrimusTactical said:
Without getting too into the weeds, I was under the impression that with most stand your ground laws you have to show that you were in fear because they showed some type of threat. IE You can't just shoot someone that you know is unarmed and NO threat who walks in your house. I thought you needed more then them just being there, I may be wrong.
Click to expand...

Yeah, gotta use your accessories first[smile]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
Cause drunk teens have never been assailants... [rolleyes]

K7500 said:
Ummmm. Whatever happened to not firing at someone or something without identifying it first? Drunk and assaultive? Or just a drunk kid? I have a light on my gun to see at night just for that particular reason. Target obviously wasn't identified ?
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