Effect of the sequester

[M1911]

Last night I was chatting with an Air Force veteran who hangs out with the Thunderbirds several times per year. I knew that as a result of sequestration, that they are not performing this year. But it is much worse than that.

They aren't flying.

That is it. They are not flying at all. They "fly" the sims. Once a week they power up the F16s, taxi around the base, then shut them down and put them back in the hangar. They have nothing to do. The pilots and mechanics come into work and having nothing to do but stare at each other. According to a support person who has been with the team for 30 years, morale has never been this low.

The aggressor squadron at Nellis is shut down. Red Flag is cancelled. The only thing flying at Nellis is the 4 F-35s being tested. Everything else is grounded.

 

[JNP24]

I fail to see the issue here

 

[M1911]

I fail to see the issue here

Pilots aren't trained properly if they aren't flying. It isn't just the Thunderbirds that aren't flying. Lots of fighter squadrons aren't flying either.

 

[Acme.Armament]

Lack of use and performing PM's will lead to equipment failures. Which certain persons would be in favor of.

 

[terraformer]

The dirty little secret of the sequester is the BO administration target the cuts to be as painful and public as possible. They aren't strategic or logical in any fashion other than to hurt the most people possible in order to gain sympathy for raising taxes. It's backfiring.

 

[M1911]

The dirty little secret of the sequester is the BO administration target the cuts to be as painful and public as possible. They aren't strategic or logical in any fashion other than to hurt the most people possible in order to gain sympathy for raising taxes.

Yup, that was why they initially targeted the FAA cuts such that they would cause air traffic delays. It is the same logic used in your local school district. The superintendent says that if the override doesn't pass, they will cut music, the football team, drama classes, etc., instead of cutting the second assistant superintendent of diversity.

 

[ericcif]

I fail to see the issue here

As someone who spent a decade in military aviation maintenance I can tell you that aircraft are meant to fly and breakdown even more when they sit.


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[Boris]

Barry still has two movie theater projectionists and five chefs. He doesn't understand your problems.

 

[Fixxah]

Barry still has two movie theater projectionists and five chefs. He doesn't understand your problems.

No, he doesn't care about your problems. That's why he created them in the first place. Big difference.

-Trolling via S3.-

 

[beaker]

This us exactly right. There is no reason to shut down the Thunderbirds or Blue Angels or a bunch of other stuff that got targeted. These mother humpers would sacrifice all of our security to screw over a political opponent in a heartbeat. It is going to be a painful 3 years for the administration, I just hope the old rino contingent of congress can muster up a cupful of manhood to do the right things.

The dirty little secret of the sequester is the BO administration target the cuts to be as painful and public as possible. They aren't strategic or logical in any fashion other than to hurt the most people possible in order to gain sympathy for raising taxes. It's backfiring.

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[drgrant]

Pilots aren't trained properly if they aren't flying. It isn't just the Thunderbirds that aren't flying. Lots of fighter squadrons aren't flying either.

There would be plenty of trained pilots in the AF if the DOD didn't have a maddening subculture of scaring away anyone who knows anything.

-Mike

 

[dustoff22]

I fail to see the issue here

Flying proficiency is lost very quickly if not exercised VERY regularly. Precision flying like the Thunderbirds do requires daily or near daily flying to maintain that level of expertise.

Sitting equipment does nothing but rust and develop oil and hydraulic leaks.

 

[JNP24]

I understand that maintenance of precision flying skills requires regular practice of precision flying, and I enjoy air shows as much as the next guy, but is it really a good expenditure of tax payer dollars? Why don't they charge enough to cover the cost of running the airshow, wouldn't that make more sense?

 

[ochmude]

I understand that maintenance of precision flying skills requires regular practice of precision flying, and I enjoy air shows as much as the next guy, but is it really a good expenditure of tax payer dollars? Why don't they charge enough to cover the cost of running the airshow, wouldn't that make more sense?

Based on the last sentence in the OP, it seems this is affecting more than just air shows.

 

[Boghog1]

Flying proficiency is lost very quickly if not exercised VERY regularly. Precision flying like the Thunderbirds do requires daily or near daily flying to maintain that level of expertise.

Sitting equipment does nothing but rust and develop oil and hydraulic leaks.

Do these planes or pilots see combat after they become part of the Blue Angles or Thunderbirds?

 

[ochmude]

Do these planes or pilots see combat after they become part of the Blue Angles or Thunderbirds?

Not sure about the planes, but the pilots do. You do a tour with the team then rotate back to an active squadron.

 

[rrogan]

I have a buddy who is training to fly F-16s right now. A few months back he told me he finally dropped some live ordinance. I don't think there is any cutback with with people who are training to go into battle, it's just the people that are around for showmanship essentially. I sent him a message to see what he thinks, so I'll let you know when he gets back to me.

 

[Boghog1]

Not sure about the planes, but the pilots do. You do a tour with the team then rotate back to an active squadron.

Thanks, did not know that.

 

[M1911]

I understand that maintenance of precision flying skills requires regular practice of precision flying, and I enjoy air shows as much as the next guy, but is it really a good expenditure of tax payer dollars? Why don't they charge enough to cover the cost of running the airshow, wouldn't that make more sense?

First, very few air shows are run by the Air Force, they are run by local organizations. Second, the air show can't afford the cost to pay for the Thunderbirds to show up.

Third, and most importantly, it isn't just the Thunderbirds that are grounded. Many squadrons aren't flying -- fighter pilots assigned to wings that we would need to go to war if something bad happened tomorrow aren't flying and have lost their proficiency status. Only 4 planes assigned to Nellis Air Force base are flying. The US Air Force aggressor squadron, used to teach air combat to other units, aren't flying. Red Flag, the largest air war game in the US (and probably the world), which is used for training dozens of US units and for training with many of our allies, has been canceled.

Our war fighting capabilities are withering by the day. Now, is that still OK with you?

 

[centermass181]

Yup, that was why they initially targeted the FAA cuts such that they would cause air traffic delays. It is the same logic used in your local school district. The superintendent says that if the override doesn't pass, they will cut music, the football team, drama classes, etc., instead of cutting the second assistant superintendent of diversity.

Lol

 

[JNP24]

Maybe if we don't have the capability to wage infinite wars a half a world away, we'll finally end the ones were in. If its a means to that end, then ya, I'm ok with it.

 

[hurley431]

.

 

[rrogan]

The key word in what your friend told you was that he FINALLY dropped live ordinance.

That's true, I don't know if it took him longer to be able to do that/if they do it less than compared to before

ETA: he just told me that basic training was on schedule, but they took big cuts from people that were more experienced. They fly much less now, and only keep people on combat ready status when they are near the front lines really

 

[Windwalker]

Maybe if we don't have the capability to wage infinite wars a half a world away, we'll finally end the ones were in. If its a means to that end, then ya, I'm ok with it.

Son, I believe you're missing the big picture. This is not about ending wars that may not be popular, or to your liking. This is about erosion of the core military capability to respond to a military threat to the security of our country. In this world environment, the political deterioration and resulting instability of several countries with supplies of fairly sophisticated weaponry is increasing. As a result, the potential for military threats to our country are growing, not declining - and our ability to defend against it is becoming greatly diminished. I encourage you to try thinking larger.

 

[JNP24]

Father, look at the bigger picture. If we weren't too busy policing the world and destabilizing some of those governments ourselves, we would have more resources to train and defend the home front. They don't just hate us because we're pretty, y'know.

 

[M1911]

Weakness doesn't make our country safer, any more than being defenseless protects you from violent criminals.

 

[jhagberg88]

i have a friend that is in an active squadron, they aren't flying either. simulators once or twice a week if they can fit it in.

 

[strangenh]

Bureaucracies fire their own last. Since the mentality is to keep everyone employed in the hope "this too shall pass" we get arbitrary reductions in material use/expenditure, rather than a hard look for efficiencies, in both material and personnel.

 

[Mikel131]

Word to live by

We the people

of the United States, in order to form a more
perfect union, establish justice, insure
domestic tranquility, provide for the
common defense, promote the general
welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty
to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain
and establish this Constitution for the
United States of America.


Article 1
SECTION 8.


To raise and support armies, but no
appropriation of money to that use shall be
for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

We have a set of laws to live by. We have elected officials that swore an oath to obey them.

 

[coachjpg]

They cut funds for training, but the big Defense Contractors keep raking in the funds. I'd much rather see them cut a weapon system than cut training, but that will never happen. The defense contractors are key political contributors, so they're largely above cuts.

I worry most about the cutbacks we don't hear about. We have thousands of nukes in storage, each one an active, seething chemical experiment requiring constant attention and maintenance. Nuke maintenance is a dead-end job that no one wants. If it were me, I'd disassemble thousands of them and render them safe and low-maintenance.