namedpipes
NES Member
Not 100% accurate. Even favored dod contractors are feeling the pinch.
This is not to say that is a bad thing.
MY cutbacks would have been far deeper.
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Effect of the sequester
- Thread starter M1911
- Start date
Not 100% accurate. Even favored dod contractors are feeling the pinch.
This is not to say that is a bad thing.
MY cutbacks would have been far deeper.
Yes, cuts need to happen. The question is what cuts and where. Training for warfighters? No, that shouldn't be cut. Slash and burn the chairborne commandos in the Pentagon? Yup. Slash the contracts to the beltway bandits like SAIC, Booz Allen Hamilton, etc.? You bet.
Cut the LCS, a ship that can't do anything well? Yup.
namedpipes
NES Member
We agree.
Although the big costs are in welfare/medicare/medicaid and everybody is afraid to cut there.
usp45ct
NES Member
PI think cutting a weapon system, which I am favor of, really is a small cut compared to other cuts, as a large chuck is past or future Monet with little impact on the short term. The meaningful hit is usually in the everyday big ticket item which is training and personnel.
The abandonment on non key agencies like TSA would have an immediate payout in terms of savings
That Guy
Banned
I disagree that cutting weapons systems would not be effective. The F35 that has cost half a trillion dollars over a decade and produced absolutely nothing. That is an insane amount of money for a program that nobody really wanted and even those who might have wanted the finished product knew it was implausible.
Also, everyone here does recognize that the president doesn't set the budget, nor did he come up with sequestration, right? He signed the budget control act which passed both the house and the senate which cleared the way for sequestration, but singling out the BO administration for this mess is ludicrous.
That Guy
Banned
Medicare is self-funded (well, it's supposed to be) so that isn't something that we should be talking about cutting.
The biggest social welfare programs are SNAP and TANF. SNAP (Food stamps) was $74.6 billion last year. TANF (temporary assistance for needy families) cost the government $9.6 billion in 2011 (quick Googling didn't give me 2012 numbers). Both of those programs are literally half (in money - about 1/3 in people receiving) what they were prior to 1996 when Bill Clinton - that paragon of conservative values - signed the Welfare Reform act.
So we're in the neighborhood of $90 billion for social programs not including Medicare which people pay into themselves and are entitled to just as anyone who pays into a pension is entitled to get their own investments back. $90 billion sounds like a lot until you consider that the total budget requests for defense spending were $1.45 trillion this year which includes spending for the military, homeland security and - importantly - paying for wars we've already fought, because despite Bush's very optimistic prediction, the Iraq war did not pay for itself. It didn't even pretend to reach for the check when the waiter laid it on the table.
Who would have thought a war wouldn't be a money making operation?
Unless you are Halliburton or KBR or Halliburton-KBR. Anyone who has been overseas during these wars will tell you of the waste that is rampant among these civilian contractors. Ridiculous waste. Especially when the military already has the people to do every single job a civilian contractor fills. We survived over 200 years with a self-sufficient military - they have always brought their own cooks, engineers, plumbers, carpenters, computer guys, gate guards, etc. But for some reason we have decided it would be better to pay, say, a plumber, over $100,000 a year plus the added security it takes to ensure he is safe than just have a private from an engineering company do the same thing for half as much and be trained to defend himself so he doesn't have to be protected by someone else.
That's where your money is going. Wasteful programs, wars being fought by private contractors - crap like that absolutely dwarfs the amount we spend on social welfare programs and actual necessary hands on training by military personnel combined.
I don't think the Medicare self-funding is anywhere near enough money to cover the cost of the program, but as you say, defense spending dwarfs that issue. Ike warned us about the Military-Industrial Complex, but I don't think he had any idea how bad it would become.
Click here for a good article on the Ike poster below.
Boris
Son of Kalashnikov
Private contractors are not troops, so the pres can claim "troop withdrawal" and have the same number, if not more people on the ground fighting.
Absolutely. I've read that some Euro countries have good, modern frigate designs, but those wouldn't survive NIH.
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
That Guy
Banned
It also helped them avoid the draft when they were hurting for troops around the middle of the Iraq campaign.
It also lines the pockets of Halliburton more than anyone else. That's not a coincidence.
I know why the government chose to fight these wars with private contractors as 1/5 of their force. There were all sorts of reasons - none of them with the benefit of the American people in mind.
That Guy
Banned
Now we're talking about state spending as well which is not the same as the federal budget and sequestration (much like my defense spending totals were federal only - they didn't include what states are spending on their own National Guards, police force and other homeland defense costs). But the bottom line is you're adding Medicaid, which is a vastly more complex problem than social welfare. The majority of people using Medicaid are either retired or disabled. And if you cut Medicaid, sick people will still go to the hospital, they'll still get treated and the bill will still be passed along to everyone else. Unless we decide we're going to be a country that is ok with people dying without treatment simply because they are poor, we need to have some kind of health plan. If that is what you believe should be happening, that's your initiative - I will disagree, but that's your opinion.
Wouldnt worry about it, im betting 20 aircraft just rolled off the assembly line last week, just like they keep building more and more tanks for an army that doesnt want them.
20 per week?
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Only in the DOD's dreams.Actually, we are buying very few combat aircraft. The F-22 production line has been shut down and it would take years and billions of dollars to restart. I don't believe the US has taken delivery of a new F-15 or F-16 in years, and I believe that we don't have any on order.
In May 2010, the Navy signed a contract for about 120 F/A-18s, to be delivered over a 4 year period, so that is about 30 per year. If the F-35 is further delayed, the Navy might order more F/A-18s, though that would cause a huge political battle.
The F-35 is still in testing and won't be operational for a couple years at best. Right now we've probably got about 10 and they are not mission capable. I believe that the DOD is expecting to have about 30 F-35s delivered in the next year.
Actually, there are several dozen F-35s and several training squadrons are now getting pilots trained on the aircraft. The program was a cluster**** for a long time but it finally looks like they're getting somewhat on track.
Other than that, the KC-135 replacement, the P-8, and the E-2D are probably our highest priority new aircraft programs...
Other than that, the KC-135 replacement, the P-8, and the E-2D are probably our highest priority new aircraft programs...
That Guy
Banned
Half a trillion later - that they are admitting to. The point of this entire line of discussion was the absolute shameless waste perpetrated by DoD contractors and just given a blank check by Congress year after year after year, regardless of which party is in charge, regardless of which party is in the White House. And I still think the F35 qualifies.
I can tell you first hand that DoD contractors are being effected. My place just dropped and 20 people today. They have laid off hundreds in the past 6 months. People need to stop making the contractors out to be war profiteers.
This.
Until last week I was a PASS contractor at Hanscom AFB and I was told my position is being eliminated. Most of my job hunting is in the non defense sector. I'm sure there will be others in the next month or two......
I have a friend who works for DoD as a government inspector in contractor plants. They are going to be furloughed one day a week for the next 3 months..
20% pay cut starting the week after Independence Day! That furlough ends Sept 30... the end of this years government Fiscal year.
Nothing has changed in the Gov's ability to come together and make a budget so expect more cuts and furloughs next fiscal year!
The Gov workers are aware of the budget and are more than willing to make sacrifices....but when the crisis is caused by our elected officials who just don't want to play well together.. well that a crock!
