FA-10 forms

msdamato said:
So is a printed Fa10 acceptable now? I see the PDF form Mass.Gov but can't find where it says this is now acceptable. Are we to assume its ok? That just seem like a bad idea in Mass.
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Yes, the printed form is acceptable. In fact, according to the website linked above by szaino, it is the only acceptable form. From the web page:

Please use this interim FA-10 form to record a firearms transaction pursuant to G.L. c. 140, §§ 128A and 128B. Please note, no alternate forms will be accepted.
Over the past 6 months, DCJIS has been developing a web-based firearms transaction application to allow for the electronic submission of FA-10’s. This application is currently in the testing phase and will replace the paper reporting system once it is available online.
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The only pain about using the personally printed form (Well, aside from having to fill out a form at all...) is that you have to fill out three separate copies: one for the state, one for the buyer, and one for the seller. You could use carbon paper, if they still make carbon paper. [wink]
 
msdamato said:
So is a printed Fa10 acceptable now? I see the PDF form Mass.Gov but can't find where it says this is now acceptable. Are we to assume its ok? That just seem like a bad idea in Mass.
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Yes, they're fine. Get some carbon paper so there's zero doubt that its the same signature and information on all copies. Plus, it makes your life easier.
 
I had a friend use a printable FA-10 this summer and never reported any issues. I recently used the fillable form from this site and was not made aware of their being any issue.

Just fill out the first page (you need to "tab" from box to box) and it copies it to all three, and of course you will need to manually sign each page.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/111792-Fillable-FA-10-PDF

Mike
 
center442 said:
Yes, the printed form is acceptable. In fact, according to the website linked above by szaino, it is the only acceptable form. From the web page:

Please use this interim FA-10 form to record a firearms transaction pursuant to G.L. c. 140, §§ 128A and 128B. Please note, no alternate forms will be accepted.
Over the past 6 months, DCJIS has been developing a web-based firearms transaction application to allow for the electronic submission of FA-10’s. This application is currently in the testing phase and will replace the paper reporting system once it is available online.
Click to expand...

The only pain about using the personally printed form (Well, aside from having to fill out a form at all...) is that you have to fill out three separate copies: one for the state, one for the buyer, and one for the seller. You could use carbon paper, if they still make carbon paper. [wink]
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Ok, so how can this possibly work? How do you "sign" an online FA10? What's to prevent anyone from forging someone else's

How is it even legal? A system like that would de-facto limit private sales to people who have computers and internet access, and further limit sales in public places (gun ranges, parking lots, gun shops, etc) to those who have wireless access to the internet.

If the state is going to require the registration of all sales, it has to be free, or at least accessible to everyone, not just the technologically elite who can afford the equipment and service. The old system, as distasteful as it was (stacks of FA10s at police stations) is *far* preferable to a web based system.
 
I have no idea how an online transfer would work in real life. You are correct, doing it online will limit where it can be done. I haven't read anywhere that pen and paper transfers would be eliminated when the online version comes into play.

I plan on using old-fashioned paper until such time as that is no longer allowed, if that ever happens. The whole MA system of recording transfers is FUBAR.
 
I still have a bunch of the 3-page forms that you used to be able to get. I hope they are still ok to use because I have enough to last me for years. [laugh]
 
Emoto said:
I still have a bunch of the 3-page forms that you used to be able to get. I hope they are still ok to use because I have enough to last me for years. [laugh]
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Yes, they're still good. I used one just this week for a transfer. [smile]

"Pssst. Hey, buddy, wanna buy a pre-ban FA-10 form? No fancy computer needed, just a pen." [laugh]
 
M1911 said:
So you're the reason police stations ran out of forms. [laugh]
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[rofl] Ok, I don't have that many, but at the (slow) rate I use them, I'll have some for a long time. [laugh] You used to be able to call up EOPS and ask them to mail you some, and they would. Free. I asked for a big stack the last time I did that, which was 2008.
 
You absolutely can still use the PDF's, even if you read that letter that you attached "In the near future, FRB will begin returning all non approved forms to the sender. Non approved forms will be returned with information about E-FA10 and the availability of approved FA10 forms at local police departments"

There is not a single documented case of them returning the PDF form, only rumors. If they do "in the near future" start to return PDF forms then they will have to provide you with the ability to obtain the form at a local police department. The way the law is written, they cannot force you to use the E-FA10 and they know it. They're just doing their best to make the paper forms a pain in the ass and are using scare tactics.
 
sschevy said:
you can no longer use the printable FA 10 forms....they must be the official Numbered forms from you PD, GOAL, etc...
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No, you can keep sending in the PDFs until CJIS rejects them... and that's exactly what I (and probably a bunch of others here) intend to do.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
No, you can keep sending in the PDFs until CJIS rejects them... and that's exactly what I (and probably a bunch of others here) intend to do.

-Mike
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I actually sent a PDF form in November and it has not returned... all I am stating is what they are stating in their letter, YOU say you can keep sending them in...THEY say you can not....Who should I believe? the people that actually write these rules (and can enforce them) or some guy I never met on a forum? I think I would rather lean on the side of caution rather than track down the guy I sold something to and inconvenience both of us for a repeat signature....Its a hell of a lot easier to go to my local PD and pick up the correct form...
 
sschevy said:
I actually sent a PDF form in November and it has not returned... all I am stating is what they are stating in their letter, YOU say you can keep sending them in...THEY say you can not....Who should I believe? the people that actually write these rules (and can enforce them) or some guy I never met on a forum? I think I would rather lean on the side of caution rather than track down the guy I sold something to and inconvenience both of us for a repeat signature....Its a hell of a lot easier to go to my local PD and pick up the correct form...
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I've met Dr. Grant a number of times. Bright guy. I trust him. Well, not with beef jerky, but otherwise. Of course, you don't know me, so that doesn't help you much...
 
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namedpipes said:
I've met Dr. Grant a number of times. Bright guy. I trust him. Well, not with beef jerky, but otherwise. Of course, you don't know me, so that doesn't help you much...
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Al Capone was a bright guy too......And Ted Kaczynski was a Doctor.....So whats everyone's point? That it is OK to be defiant and ignore the states requirements that can turn around and haunt you? (no offense Drgrant its nothing personal)

Over a piece of paper? or over convince? No thanks I think I will play by the rules and not have to fight my way out of a court battle because I had some lame excuse that I could not get an actual FA10...That would not be an excuse, because there is always a dealer transfer if you can not get one.

So now there is the debate of the dealer transfer cost money....wahhh!!! It a lot cheaper than hiring a lawyer to prove you transferred that gun to the dude that just robbed a store or worse....And all you have to go on is the Potentially (note that I say potentially) worthless piece of paper that is not even good to wipe your ass with because computer paper is not all that forgiving....when it comes to risk with this kind of stuff I don't take any, I will follow the rules until I can move back to the west coast to the free state I once loved..Which can not come soon enough, I hate this shit hole more every day...


There is a right way and a wrong way to play the games...Just ignoring the rules set by the state to me would be the wrong way....Fighting the rules...now that's a different route and I am all for it...Defiance will not bring the outcome hoped for...Challenging the rules in a legal manner may...but in this state I doubt it
 
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Doctor from Detroit? errr....Fitchburger

ta4yvn.png
 
sschevy said:
. . . So now there is the debate of the dealer transfer cost money....wahhh!!! It a lot cheaper than hiring a lawyer to prove you transferred that gun to the dude that just robbed a store or worse....And all you have to go on is the Potentially (note that I say potentially) worthless piece of paper that is not even good to wipe your ass with because computer paper is not all that forgiving....when it comes to risk with this kind of stuff I don't take any, I will follow the rules until I can move back to the west coast to the free state I once loved..Which can not come soon enough, I hate this shit hole more every day...


There is a right way and a wrong way to play the games...Just ignoring the rules set by the state to me would be the wrong way....Fighting the rules...now that's a different route and I am all for it...Defiance will not bring the outcome hoped for...Challenging the rules in a legal manner may...but in this state I doubt it
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All this energy and enthusiasm....

Stay angry and fight any way YOU see fit.

However, understanding is not the same as ignoring.
 
Holy crap! Go to the beginning of this 4 year old thread and read the writing on the wall!


Sent from my iPhone5 using Tapatalk
 
sschevy said:
I actually sent a PDF form in November and it has not returned... all I am stating is what they are stating in their letter, YOU say you can keep sending them in...THEY say you can not....Who should I believe? the people that actually write these rules (and can enforce them) or some guy I never met on a forum? I think I would rather lean on the side of caution rather than track down the guy I sold something to and inconvenience both of us for a repeat signature....
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Do whatever you please, doesn't matter much to me. Obviously if they start rejecting them, there is a hassle factor with that, for obvious reasons. If I was a cruffler (C&R guy) though, I wouldn't be wasting carbons on registrations, until they start rejecting the PDF.

Its a hell of a lot easier to go to my local PD and pick up the correct form...
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No, not really. They are getting very hard to find, overall.

The "easiest" thing to do is to use E-FA-10. I think that is what CJIS is doing- trying to make things painful as possible so that everyone will (eventually) use that system.

-Mike
 
sschevy said:
Al Capone was a bright guy too......And Ted Kaczynski was a Doctor.....So whats everyone's point? That it is OK to be defiant and ignore the states requirements that can turn around and haunt you? (no offense Drgrant its nothing personal)
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Sorry, but I'm calling BS here. The PDF IS A STATE PROVIDED FORM, for ****s sake. [rofl] What about the people that are still using that form that have no clue about CJIS's little announcement? It's not like they sent out a letter to every active LTC/FID holder alerting them of this change.

Over a piece of paper? or over convince? No thanks I think I will play by the rules and not have to fight my way out of a court battle because I had some lame excuse that I could not get an actual FA10...
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When has there ever been a court battle over an FA-10? Please post the case law, I'd love to see it (and likely a bunch of other people here, too).

This is more an administrative issue than it is anything else. If you use the PDF, by the letter of the law you are still complying with the law. (Although if they never released an FA-10 on PDF format, that might be a different story, but they clearly did at one point. )

That would not be an excuse, because there is always a dealer transfer if you can not get one.
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MA compliance BS would prevent you from using a dealer, in some cases. Otherwise I would just use a dealer most of the time anyways. There's also the issue of being forced to use a dealer during their business hours. I only know of one dealer that I can do a gun transfer at 9 PM at, and he's 2 hours away from where I live. [laugh]

So now there is the debate of the dealer transfer cost money....wahhh!!!
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I use dealer transfers all the time when I can, but I still should not be forced to do it, as private sales are clearly allowed in the law.

There is a right way and a wrong way to play the games...Just ignoring the rules set by the state to me would be the wrong way....Fighting the rules...now that's a different route and I am all for it...Defiance will not bring the outcome hoped for...Challenging the rules in a legal manner may...
Click to expand...

Why is my way wrong? It's only ever "wrong" or if you ignore the rejection notice. My guess is these notices will never actually be sent, lest they encourage someone to stop filing. I would also make a WAG that they are going to promote use of E-FA-10 by making finding carbons painful.

Again, do whatever you want. I just like pissing on anti-gun bureaucrats whenever it won't inconvenience me in the process. [laugh]

-Mike
 
I still have a few original FA-10 forms so I went to the Police Station for more the woman at the desk said no problem. She printed me six PDF's and said just fill them out in triplicate or fill one out and make copies for yourself. So my local P.D. thinks PDF's are ok.
 
The PDF is NO LONGER provided by the state....They took it down off the website so it is no longer "state provided" and as far as the state not notifying everyone...what about in 1998 when all FID's expired? No one was notified of that either! So it would be OK for everyone with a FID to ignore that too? Actually I have still run into people as recent as last month that think their FID is still good!!

Court battle over the FA 10....Not what I meant, proving your gun is no longer yours is what I meant, if in the rare situation something goes horribly wrong...You trust the justice system in this state enough to take your word as proof... then go for it..

And I agree it is a admin issue BUT for example, just a few months back the police showed up at my friends door asking if he owned a Remington 870...Apparently someone in Orange MA was pulled over drunk with a shotgun in his back seat that came back registered to my friend here in Peabody, The Police showed up wanting to know why his shotgun was in Orange with some drunk, He then produced the 870 to the officer and the copy of his form, apparently Dicks Sporting good made a mistake on the form and it came back in his name....Luckily he knew the officer that showed up at his home and has a bit of political influence in his town or it may have become ugly, even if it were ugly for a short spurt it would have been a real PITA...

I am simply trying to say something like this could spiral out of control real quick, and suggesting to people to keep using them until they return them(which you are doing by stating you will keep using them) , In my opinion, is bad advise.

You keep sticking it to the state I commend you for that, But you know as well as I do that there are many people here that are not as up to date on the rules or willing to go through the crap to prove themselves right and steering them in the wrong direction is...well...wrong..

I did not intend to start a disagreement with you or try to say you are wrong in what you are doing, Just wanted to give my opinion on the subject, I guess I am just lucky that my PD has plenty of FA10's all the time and gives me handfuls with a smile every time I ask for one

BTW: if the state is still providing PDF's please tell me where they are hiding them on the website..I can not find them anywhere but it would be good to know where they are if they are still there

Also I used a PDF as recent as November and I have heard nothing of it as of yet and expect I would have by now..
 
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sschevy said:
The PDF is NO LONGER provided by the state....They took it down off the website so it is no longer "state provided" and as far as the state not notifying everyone....
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It was provided at one point. [wink]

During that time the paper forms were no longer provided, does that mean that existing paper forms out there during the shortage were invalid?

You are over thinking this.
 

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