Falklands War ends, 40 years ago today

[daekken]

With today being the 40th anniversary of the end of the Falklands War, a little humor:

Dan Snow of the History Hit podcast traveled back to the islands with Marine Corporal Peter Robinson, shown below in this icon photo with the Union Jack on his antenna:



When arriving, they had to fill out a card with their information, such as name, DOB, etc.

Robinson wrote the following on these three questions:

Have you previously visited the islands? Yes.
Duration of stay? Six weeks.
Purpose of visit? Amphibious Assault.

 

[mibro]

The UK couldn't do it now.

 

[Picton]

The UK couldn't do it now.

I wonder whether the Argentinians could?

 

[Zappa]

The UK couldn't do it now.

Maybe not, but it was an amazing story about the bombing mission sent from the UK to blow up the airfield in Falkland.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcEhZ2p4s9o

 

[mibro]

Maybe not, but it was an amazing story about the bombing mission sent from the UK to blow up the airfield in Falkland.

A high school friend of mine flew one of the Victor tankers. At least that's what he told me. He was a Victor pilot so possibly true. He's dead now.

The mission base was Ascension Island. Though the planes were indeed sent from the UK.

 

[MagGus1820]

The UK couldn't do it now.

This seems to be the life cycle of an empire. Lots of war kills off the strong, then you are only left with the rest.

 

[SFC13557]

The UK couldn't do it now.

I don't know about that, the UK spends on it's Military unlike the Germans. I'm sure the Navy has taken cuts since the end of the Cold War just like ours.

 

[Dench]

It was the last conflict to see a submarine sink another ship in combat.

Imagine that.

 

[mibro]

The Second Falklands War and the Decline of the Senior Service

The measure of a navy is not its ability to intercept pirates or conduct Freedom of Navigation Operations. The gold standard of a navy is its ability to carry out expeditionary warfare – to s…

encyclopediageopolitica.com

"So, could the UK retake the Falkland Isles today? No. And probably not anytime soon, either.

The Falklands task force comprised of 127 ships, with 43 Royal Navy vessels, 22 Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels and scores of other vessels from the merchant marine. It included two aircraft carriers, 15 frigates and six destroyers along with landing docks, six submarines and 24 sea harriers.

Today, Britain has no carriers or naval combat aircraft and just to match the major surface ships the RN would need to press into service every single destroyer and frigate on the books, an impossible task given that it has struggled to crew its frigates in recent years and placed some ships on “extended readiness”, which is a diplomatic way of saying mothballed. It would also require all of the ships to be functional, something that is unrealistic as the Type 23, while a proven and capable ship, is starting to show its age and the otherwise-impressive Type 45 destroyers, which are among the most capable air-defence platforms on the seas, have suffered propulsion problems since their inception that have not yet been fully fixed."

 

[SFC13557]

It was the last conflict to see a submarine sink another ship in combat.

Imagine that.

Correct, the war caused the Argentine Junta to collapse. Maggie had balls.

 

[james13]

The UK couldn't do it now.

Had Argentina invaded later in 1982, it would have been more complicated for the British.

Both of the large amphibious landing ships the British used, HMS Fearless and HMS Intrepid scheduled to be decommissioned and scrapped. In fact basic decommissioning work had already startled on the Intrepid and they had to hurriedly get it back into service.

I’ve been listing to this podcast about the Falklands.


View: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/battleground-the-falklands-war/id1617276298

 

[CWulf]

I read a couple of good books about this war. The first was by Max Hastings called "The Battle of the Falklands", an overview of the entire campaign, and another by a Para machine gunner called "Excursion to Hell" which is a first hand account of the battle of Mount Longdon.

 

[rali]

The Second Falklands War and the Decline of the Senior Service

The measure of a navy is not its ability to intercept pirates or conduct Freedom of Navigation Operations. The gold standard of a navy is its ability to carry out expeditionary warfare – to s…

encyclopediageopolitica.com

[…]
Today, Britain has no carriers or naval combat aircraft and just to match the major surface ships the RN would need to press into service every single destroyer and frigate on the books,

I call bullshit on the above. What is this?

HMS Queen Elizabeth (R08) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any article that gets such a fundamental fact completely wrong is, at best, suspect or, at worst, the stuff you use to mop up cat piss.

R

HMS Queen Elizabeth is not the USS Ronald Reagan but it sure as shit is an aircraft carrier and it sure as shit can whip Argentinian ass

(edited to fix the out of place commas. The horror and shame of it …)

 

[fshalor]

Some of my most coveted coins are from two stops in the Falklands. One was a medical emergency when our chief engineer had a bit of a diabetic meltdown.

It was the first time he'd been back to the Falklands since 1982 when he was a young oiler on one of the support vessels which made the assault.

While he was recovering there, I got to walk around with him a little and take video and pictures of him in front of the monument.

Also, the cemetery there freaks me out. Like scary huge for such a small island and population. Just weeeeird.

At that time, I'd been regularly visiting and taking pictures of cemeteries and churches in every port or town I'd been to. This one freaked. Me. Out.

Yup. 40 years. And nah. They wouldn't be able to take it back today. Not due to capabilities, but due to optics.

 

[mousegunfan]

I was living in England during the Falklands war. I was USAF and before the war attitude toward us was a little cold. Mega nuke protests. But as soon as the war started they loved us.

 

[SFC13557]

I remember a story that an Argentine Army unit faked surrender and when a British Officer approached they gunned him down. Brits deployed the Gurka's and dropped pamphlets telling Argentine unit they were coming and they were f***ed. They surrendered quickly. I trained with Gurka's in Bosnia, those are serious little Dude's.

 

[Picton]

I remember a story that an Argentine Army unit faked surrender and when a British Officer approached they gunned him down. Brits deployed the Gurka's and dropped pamphlets telling Argentine unit they were coming and they were f***ed. They surrendered quickly. I trained with Gurka's in Bosnia, those are serious little Dude's.

Well... no.

1/7 Gurkhas arrived well after the main landing, and most of what they did was mopping-up stuff over battlefields the RM and Paras had taken. On the last day of the war, they were committed to take Mt William and, as soon as they moved up the hill, the Argentines surrendered to the Scots Guards, who were already engaged.

People like to say the Gurkhas were so fierce that the Argentines preferred not to surrender to them, but the reality is that the Argies were probably going to surrender to whoever they could and the Scots were merely closer.

There were a few incidents of Argentines not surrendering properly early in the war, but it's an open question whether they were being dicks vs something more mundane, like troops at one end of the line surrendering when the other end hadn't gotten the word. Either way, none of those had anything to do with the Gurkhas. During one of these incidents, the Paras went ape-shit and laid white phosphorus on the Argentine position, which is understandable. But the Paras take out their own trash: they don't need Gurkhas to clean up after them.

I worked with Gurkhas too, in Kosovo. Very funny guys; great sense of humor. They each had about 3-4 kukri knives because they knew Americans would trade for them. Smart MFers.

 

[SFC13557]

Well... no.

1/7 Gurkhas arrived well after the main landing, and most of what they did was mopping-up stuff over battlefields the RM and Paras had taken. On the last day of the war, they were committed to take Mt William and, as soon as they moved up the hill, the Argentines surrendered to the Scots Guards, who were already engaged.

People like to say the Gurkhas were so fierce that the Argentines preferred not to surrender to them, but the reality is that the Argies were probably going to surrender to whoever they could and the Scots were merely closer.

There were a few incidents of Argentines not surrendering properly early in the war, but it's an open question whether they were being dicks vs something more mundane, like troops at one end of the line surrendering when the other end hadn't gotten the word. Either way, none of those had anything to do with the Gurkhas.

I worked with them too, in Kosovo. Very funny guys; great sense of humor. They each had about 3-4 kukri knives because they knew Americans would trade for them. Smart MFers.

After a week of training with them. without telling me, my guys challenged them to a volleyball game at Eagle Base. When they told me I told them they were idiots and they laughed telling me it will be a piece of cake. I went just to watch the slaughter and it was hilarious. My guys never scored a point and got the ball slammed down their throats. We had to call the game and then they decided to try basketball which didn't have a better ending. My Joes had no clue who they were, ignorance is bliss.

 

[mibro]

I remember a story that an Argentine Army unit faked surrender and when a British Officer approached they gunned him down. Brits deployed the Gurka's and dropped pamphlets telling Argentine unit they were coming and they were f***ed. They surrendered quickly. I trained with Gurka's in Bosnia, those are serious little Dude's.

That was the Battle of Goose Green. You can read about the white flag incident at the link below. It was more fog of war than a fake surrender by the Argentinians.

The Gurkhas did not take part in this battle, on the British side were 3 companies of 2 Para later reinforced by 'Juliet' Company, 42 Commando.

I have heard stories that after Lt. Barry and one NCO were killed under a white flag that 2 Para "went nuts" but I don't know if that's true.

On this day 28th May | Royal Signals Museum

www.royalsignalsmuseum.co.uk

The Gurkhas are amazing soldiers but they weren't at Goose Green.

 

[mibro]

Major Chris Keeble's account of Goose Green | ParaData

An extract from the book 'Above All Courage' by Max Arthur. No section of this article may reproduced without the author's permission. Lieutenant Colonel H. Jones was the originator and the source of everything that happened to 2 PARA. The way the unit was constructed, the training, the emphasis...

www.paradata.org.uk

 

[Broc]

Everywhere you go in Argentina there is a sign saying the Falklands (Malvinas) belong to Argentina.

I hiked a mountain in the desert, a 3hr flight north of Buenos Aires and on the summit there was a small sign.

When you enter into the country there are also signs.

F*cking bullsh*t war by a pos military regime to try to remain in power. Waste of lives for some land no one really wants - one country keeps it out of pride, the other demands it out of pride - neither really wants it.

 

[Broc]

The Second Falklands War and the Decline of the Senior Service

The measure of a navy is not its ability to intercept pirates or conduct Freedom of Navigation Operations. The gold standard of a navy is its ability to carry out expeditionary warfare – to s…

encyclopediageopolitica.com

"So, could the UK retake the Falkland Isles today? No. And probably not anytime soon, either.

The Falklands task force comprised of 127 ships, with 43 Royal Navy vessels, 22 Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels and scores of other vessels from the merchant marine. It included two aircraft carriers, 15 frigates and six destroyers along with landing docks, six submarines and 24 sea harriers.

Today, Britain has no carriers or naval combat aircraft and just to match the major surface ships the RN would need to press into service every single destroyer and frigate on the books, an impossible task given that it has struggled to crew its frigates in recent years and placed some ships on “extended readiness”, which is a diplomatic way of saying mothballed. It would also require all of the ships to be functional, something that is unrealistic as the Type 23, while a proven and capable ship, is starting to show its age and the otherwise-impressive Type 45 destroyers, which are among the most capable air-defence platforms on the seas, have suffered propulsion problems since their inception that have not yet been fully fixed."

What you posted (I didnt click the link) doesn't mention that the Argentine military is sh*t and its navy is also sh*t.

With proper air defense, a decent airforce and a few subs, I am sure it would be possible as they would have enough time to set it up and could re-supply from Argentina but ...

Argentina infrastructure down there = sh*t.
Argentina military = not great.
Argentina navy and airforce = joke.

But ... then there are the U.S, Chile, Brazil and China.

Chile is pro U.S and chile wants a big piece of ice down south.

U.S is pro England.

China is pro whatever is against the U.S (maybe).

Brazil is pro China - since they are the biggest exporters to China and they are not great friends with Chile.

So ... could any of those nations jump in?

If Chile jumps in, they open a can of worms with the Mercosur and others could jump.

But, assuming no one else joins, Argentina could potentially take them, but can't really defend them if England can somehow get armor and airplanes there.

We should also take into consideration all the economic sanctions - the Argentine economy blows, it can't sustain itself.

Adding ... Venezual is also pro Argentina - so if there are sanctions, would they cut their new oil deals with the U.S?

 

[daekken]

Everywhere you go in Argentina there is a sign saying the Falklands (Malvinas) belong to Argentina.

I hiked a mountain in the desert, a 3hr flight north of Buenos Aires and on the summit there was a small sign.

When you enter into the country there are also signs.

F*cking bullsh*t war by a pos military regime to try to remain in power. Waste of lives for some land no one really wants - one country keeps it out of pride, the other demands it out of pride - neither really wants it.

I knew it was a big deal in Argentina, but not to the degree that they actually attacked the Top Gear film crew because one of their cars incidentally had "H982 FKL" as a license plate during filming. They injured a few crew, damaged a lot of vehicles, and they basically had to flee to Chile in a convoy.

To top it off, an Argentine ambassador then demanded an apology from the BBC despite a crowd throwing eggs and rocks at the film crew, simply due to a license plate they interpreted as offensive.

They were filming in the Argentine portion of Tierra del Fuego, so I know it is extra sensitive...but really, it was a fluke license plate, and in response over 300 people arrived to stone them, including a bus carrying war vets, apparently.

 

[Broc]

I knew it was a big deal in Argentina, but not to the degree that they actually attacked the Top Gear film crew because one of their cars incidentally had "H982 FKL" as a license plate during filming. They injured a few crew, damaged a lot of vehicles, and they basically had to flee to Chile in a convoy.

To top it off, an Argentine ambassador then demanded an apology from the BBC despite a crowd throwing eggs and rocks at the film crew, simply due to a license plate they interpreted as offensive.

They were filming in the Argentine portion of Tierra del Fuego, so I know it is extra sensitive...but really, it was a fluke license plate, and in response over 300 people arrived to stone them, including a bus carrying war vets, apparently.

I didnt know this incident happened.

But there is no way that plate was an accident. LOL ... way too much coincidence.

A lot of people care about this. Mothers that lost sons are still alive, kids that lost fathers, people that lost brothers and veterans.

Although a lot of people feel the way I feel and realize it was all bullsh*t. But even then, if you talk sh*t about it down there, people will fight you. It is like "we know it was all BS, but you talked sh*t so we will f*ck you up".

In a way, it is the same here, if someone has something offensive about the Iraq war, some veterans might beat them up, even if they think the war was BS.

Edit to add: schools also do a terrible job of teaching history down there, they teach the history they want you to know. They still teach thst the British stole the falklands because they are in Argentine waters ... blah blah blah ...

What I know, I know it from reading books after and spending weeks hiking with a friend that must have read every history book in Latin America.

 

[daekken]

But there is no way that plate was an accident. LOL ... way too much coincidence.

They can show the plate was original to the vehicle from 1991 when it was first registered, so it's clear they didn't deliberately get that plate assigned (like a vanity plate or something), but obviously they bought the car with that plate, so it's arguable they could have/should have known, and obtained a different plate.

I was going to bring up Iraq as well, but you've got it covered.

 

[jkelly1229]

This seems to be the life cycle of an empire. Lots of war kills off the strong, then you are only left with the rest.

Stagnant conquest and comfort leads to prioritization of stupid shit. The more capable fighters go off squandering their lives chansing ass or doing other stuff. The academics take over and try and reivent society

 

[rali]

What you posted (I didnt click the link) doesn't mention that the Argentine military is sh*t and its navy is also sh*t.

[…]

But ... then there are the U.S, Chile, Brazil and China.

Chile is pro U.S and chile wants a big piece of ice down south.

[…]

Chile owns more of the Tierra del Fuego than Argentina does.

Punta Arenas Chile is the airport used to get in/out of the Falklands: LATAM from Santiago, Chile (SCL) to Punta Arenas (PUQ) and on to Mount Pleasant Airport (MPN) and the reverse.

I spent some time in Punta Arenas and ran into a few Brits in the airport while coming and going. Not all were there because of the Falklands route, as PUQ is also the closest airport for access to the Torres del Paine National Park.

Was also in Ushuaia- did not ask anyone their opinion on the English or the Malvinas.

R