Glock 19/17 Gen 3/4

[DrRansom]

For the 9x19, stick with the Gen3. The Gen3 was designed for the 9x19 cartridge, one of the reasons it's the one of the most reliable platforms for the cost today.

My understanding is that the Gen4 was a revamp, but based on the .40 cal - and the 9x19s were re-engineered down from the .40 design, where the Gen3 and prior was the opposite, and this is the basic cause of the problems documented on 9x19 Gen4 Glocks.

Personally, I don't bother with the Gen4, but if I shot .40, I would consider it. Note that you can also buy Gen4 and then replace critical parts like guide rod and spring with Gen3 factory parts, IIRC.

Further reading:
http://sayoctactical.com/glock-17-gen4-review/

 

[meth0d]

...My understanding is that the Gen4 was a revamp, but based on the .40 cal - and the 9x19s were re-engineered down from the .40 design, where the Gen3 and prior was the opposite, and this is the basic cause of the problems documented on 9x19 Gen4 Glocks.
...

Trying to phrase this to not sound like a jack ass, as I am honestly curious:

Do you have any solid information to back this understanding, or is it more speculative based on your reading/research?

 

[drgrant]

My understanding is that the Gen4 was a revamp, but based on the .40 cal - and the 9x19s were re-engineered down from the .40 design, where the Gen3 and prior was the opposite, and this is the basic cause of the problems documented on 9x19 Gen4 Glocks.

No, the basic cause is that Glock rushed the frigging things to market and didn't test them very well. From the rumors and reports I've been reading, they've also had some QC issues. I think they have somewhat realized the error of their ways, which is why the "new models being offered in Gen4 trim" pace has slowed considerably.

Personally, I don't bother with the Gen4, but if I shot .40, I would consider it. Note that you can also buy Gen4 and then replace critical parts like guide rod and spring with Gen3 factory parts, IIRC.

Yes you can, but if you have problems with your gun, it's probably just cheaper to have it sent out to glock and get it
fixed.

Further reading:
http://sayoctactical.com/glock-17-gen4-review/

Not really good reading considering that article is over a year old- the gun they used to base that article off of, you can't even buy a new Gen4 G17 that is made like that anymore. The ejector, recoil spring assembly, connector, and potentially even the slide are different parts now.

The Gen3 is still an excellent value though, I agree with you on that. If someone doesn't need the Gen4 features they can save a little money. The biggest attribute of the Gen4 G17 for me is it is like getting a stippling job done on the grip frame for free. I would suggest that people try both or at least put both in their hands before they buy. For me the new
style mag release is a big plus, particularly on guns like the G26.

There is ONE issue in the Gen4 series that is still a pretty legitimate gripe, though. In some of the Gen4s (The G26/27 don't count, because they are almost the same as 3rd gens) the triggers are often worse because of the issues presented by a different trigger bar shape The ATF or some other agency bitched to Glock about the heavier triggers in the guns they received, and Glock "quietly" came out with this thing called a "dot" connector. Most connectors are either unmarked, plus, or minus. unmarked was the standard weight. The "dot" connector is incrementally lower in weight than the standard but not as low as a minus. It is identified by a "dot" dinged into the connector. I think Glock is now shipping most Gen4s with this already installed. When Glock had fixed my Gen4 G17 it went from the standard one to a dot, and the dot version is a significant improvement. The dot is pretty close to what the standard connector would be on a Gen3 G17.

-Mike

 

[DrRansom]

Trying to phrase this to not sound like a jack ass, as I am honestly curious:

Do you have any solid information to back this understanding, or is it more speculative based on your reading/research?

The latter. I went through the same decision process when I made this same decision a while back (as Mike notes from the article I posted), and that was my understanding, which is why I prefaced it with "My understanding is...".

Apologies if that was unclear.

 

[DrRansom]

No, the basic cause is that Glock rushed the frigging things to market and didn't test them very well. From the rumors and reports I've been reading, they've also had some QC issues.

...

you can't even buy a new
Gen4 G17 that is made like that anymore. The ejector, recoil spring assembly, connector, and potentially even the slide are different parts now.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[meth0d]

The latter. I went through the same decision process when I made this same decision a while back (as Mike notes from the article I posted), and that was my understanding, which is why I prefaced it with "My understanding is...".

Apologies if that was unclear.

Ahh okay, thanks for clarifying!

 

[drgrant]

BTW to clarify, I'm not defending all the colossal ****-ups Glock made with the Gen4 design. I just think that to be a more informed buyer, it's worht knowing that the situation now with Gen4's is WAY different than it was a year ago due to all the changes they made. The difference is stark enough that it might take a different position on someone's "risks of buying this" continuum now than it did a year ago.


-Mike

 

[DrRansom]

BTW to clarify, I'm not defending all the colossal ****-ups Glock made with the Gen4 design. I just think that to be a more informed buyer, it's worht knowing that the situation now with Gen4's is WAY different than it was a year ago due to all the changes they made. The difference is stark enough that it might take a different position on someone's "risks of buying this" continuum now than it did a year ago.


-Mike

I didn't take it that way at all - if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and would rather be corrected.

It is helpful to know that they are shipping with the updated parts, and may influence my buying decisions in the near future.

 

[ntomsw]

I like my G17 Gen4 much more then I liked my G21 Gen4.

The G17 ejects pretty much normal with the heavier ammo. So, if I have to switch ammo to 124 or 147grain that is fine by me. I love the gun. I can handle a few erratic ejections here and there, that is no biggie. My G21 was different though. That was 5 rounds out of 10 beaning me off the forehead.

This one is def a keeper. I would like to get another G21 Gen4, although I don't want those same issues again. We shall see. But, so far so good with this gun.

 

[ntomsw]

UMC 9mm used to be garbage, I have no idea what the current runs of it are like because I haven't used it in so long, but it used to be piss weak. Not sure what the velocity was as I never chronoed it, but it seemed to be lower in recoil.

Federal and WWB 115 should be fine, though. I can use either in my Gen4 and they work fine, ejection is a tad erratic but it never gets anywhere close to beaning me like it did before. I haven't tried intentionally limp wristing it, though.

-Mike

Yes, for the most part the Fed in the maroon box is fine. The few issues I have had thus far was from Rem UMC. Or, I should say the most issues I have had, which is barely none so far with this gun.

Great gun, that's for sure. My biggest problem so far is trying to figure out which finish I have.

 

[drgrant]

Yes, for the most part the Fed in the maroon box is fine. The few issues I have had thus far was from Rem UMC. Or, I should say the most issues I have had, which is barely none so far with this gun.

Great gun, that's for sure. My biggest problem so far is trying to figure out which finish I have.

Is it shiny at all or is it just bland? The bland one looks like a dull medium gray color when it is completely clean. The shiny one is pretty obvious, it's a black finish and has a little bit of a shine/gloss to it. More often than not this is the finish you see in glock literature, brochures, etc. I've never seen Glock swag/ads that show the dull looking guns.

-Mike

 

[ntomsw]

Is it shiny at all or is it just bland? The bland one looks like a dull medium gray color when it is completely clean. The shiny one is pretty obvious, it's a black finish and has a little bit of a shine/gloss to it. More often than not this is the finish you see in glock literature, brochures, etc. I've never seen Glock swag/ads that show the dull looking guns.

-Mike

I wiped mine off. Mine looks like a dark grey color compared to the black frame. So, I am guessing that is the 'dull' finish. Although I use those Hoppe's Gun & Reel Cloths to wipe all my guns off, so either way it still looks shiny.

 

[meth0d]

...I've never seen Glock swag/ads that show the dull looking guns.

-Mike

Too HSLD for print media!

 

[Independence Arms]

Note that you can also buy Gen4 and then replace critical parts like guide rod and spring with Gen3 factory parts, IIRC.

Further reading:
http://sayoctactical.com/glock-17-gen4-review/

I did exactly this, and now my Gen4 G19 runs flawless!

 

[jamis]

Just picked up my Glock 19 Gen 4 today (0 3 3 spring, factory test fired 3/6/2012). Put about 150 rounds of Federal 115 grain ammo through it and only got beaned off the forehead once. Flawless otherwise.

Overall, I'd say it performed well.

 

[PaulD]

Well it looks like Gen 4 problems are still occurring. I have a Gen 4 G17 that I've had for about a month or so. I finally had a chance to get it to the range and got hit off the head many times over 200 rounds. One of the cases got stuck on the temple of my glasses and burned me, which I'm less than pleased about. I also had a couple of stove pipes.

To be fair, I never even cleaned the thing (I know, I know) and just threw some oil in it at the range before shooting. Still, that might explain the stove pipes but not the ejection pattern.

 

[drgrant]

Well it looks like Gen 4 problems are still occurring. I have a Gen 4 G17 that I've had for about a month or so. I finally had a chance to get it to the range and got hit off the head many times over 200 rounds. One of the cases got stuck on the temple of my glasses and burned me, which I'm less than pleased about. I also had a couple of stove pipes.

To be fair, I never even cleaned the thing (I know, I know) and just threw some oil in it at the range before shooting. Still, that might explain the stove pipes but not the ejection pattern.

What RSA does yours have in it? (eg, the 3 numbers) is it the current one?

I had a bitch of a time with mine (SN prefix is PHM*** ) but it was an early one. I first got a new RSA from them but all that did was fix the stovepipes, but I still got beaned off the head too much. When I sent it to Glock whatever they did to it fixed the gun 100%. No more getting beaned off the head anymore, regardless of ammo. Never getting rid of it because I am unsure if I'll be able to get another one that works as good.

The cleaning thing is a non issue in regards to the problems. I've never cleaned any NIB or LNIB Glock, doesn't/shouldn't make a real difference in regards to ejection issues unless the gun was REALLY dirty.

-Mike

 

[PaulD]

What RSA does yours have in it? (eg, the 3 numbers) is it the current one?

I had a bitch of a time with mine (SN prefix is PHM*** ) but it was an early one. I first got a new RSA from them but all that did was fix the stovepipes, but I still got beaned off the head too much. When I sent it to Glock whatever they did to it fixed the gun 100%. No more getting beaned off the head anymore, regardless of ammo. Never getting rid of it because I am unsure if I'll be able to get another one that works as good.

The cleaning thing is a non issue in regards to the problems. I've never cleaned any NIB or LNIB Glock, doesn't/shouldn't make a real difference in regards to ejection issues unless the gun was REALLY dirty.

-Mike

Hey Mike, it's 0-2-4 (at 9 o'clock, 3 and 6 respectively). Prefix on the sn is RXN.

Any thoughts on whether I should call Glock direct or go through the dealer?

 

[drgrant]

Hey Mike, it's 0-2-4 (at 9 o'clock, 3 and 6 respectively). Prefix on the sn is RXN.

Any thoughts on whether I should call Glock direct or go through the dealer?

You can talk to Glock, but they are probably going to tell you to send it in, I think 024 is the current RSA.

-Mike

 

[PaulD]

You can talk to Glock, but they are probably going to tell you to send it in, I think 024 is the current RSA.

-Mike

Thanks Mike. I think I'll mention the temple burn for extra plus service.

On the plus side, I felt like I shot it reasonably well.

 

[drgrant]

Thanks Mike. I think I'll mention the temple burn for extra plus service.

It got to the point with mine where the guys at MFL were always telling me I had black marks all over my forehead when I left the range. It was weird the gun would either throw them completely clear or throw them straight back into my forehead.

On the plus side, I felt like I shot it reasonably well.

That's not a bad thing, although it's hard to concentrate when your own gun is generating random incoming fire every 5-10 shots.

-Mike