Sterg
NES Member
How do you test point of aim?
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Going snubby... LCR vs. SW 442
- Thread starter TheCrowing
- Start date
How do you test point of aim?
There are many ways. Here is one you can try at home.
We (humans) have been pointing at things since we were about 1yo. We have got good at pointing. Grip / frame angle on a gun as well as ergonomics may alter where the firearm actually points in relation to where you think it is pointing.
As a test:
1. Hold the (empty) firearm pointed towards the floor.
2. Look at something small on a far wall.
3. Close your eyes and point the gun at said item.
4. Open your eyes and look down the sights and see how far "off" you are.
Do this with your favorite shooters at home and you will see that natural point of aim will most likely be pretty damn close. Now try it with guns you don't love to shoot and might see what I am saying.
Hope this helps.
-Mike
Billsail
NES Member
Aim for the bullseye. How close are your shots? Hold each one, as you naturally would. Don't try anything different. Which one hits closer to the bull. One may be consistently better than the other. If you don't shoot both, you can't compare. Everyone is a little different.
ETA: Mikes' excercise is very useful as well. And doesn't cost anything.
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Sterg
NES Member
Thanks for the tips guys. Bill, at 50 feet using a pistol match target I manage to hit the paper 2 out of 5. I shot a friends model 36 at an outdoor range with steel targets at about 20 feet. I hit the targets 4-5 out of 5.
Billsail
NES Member
50 feet is pushing it, for a snubby, not that it can't be done. Your 4/5 at 20' is great. Keep practicing. J-Frames are not easy to master, but it can be done.
Try "point shooting". Bring the gun up, point at the target, and shoot. No aiming. See how you do. A snub-nose revolver is an up-close and personal, defensive handgun. NOT a target gun.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Sterg
NES Member
I know. My range is 50 feet only. I have to go to my brothers club to get up close. I did try the point and shoot and with my eyes closed. I was amazed at how close I was to the targets.50 feet is pushing it, for a snubby, not that it can't be done. Your 4/5 at 20' is great. Keep practicing. J-Frames are not easy to master, but it can be done.
Try "point shooting". Bring the gun up, point at the target, and shoot. No aiming. See how you do. A snub-nose revolver is an up-close and personal, defensive handgun. NOT a target gun.
50 feet is pushing it, for a snubby, not that it can't be done. Your 4/5 at 20' is great. Keep practicing. J-Frames are not easy to master, but it can be done.
Try "point shooting". Bring the gun up, point at the target, and shoot. No aiming. See how you do. A snub-nose revolver is an up-close and personal, defensive handgun. NOT a target gun.
J frames are surprisingly accurate, just difficult to shoot well. I can consistently hit 3 or 4 out of the 5 on the 25 yard plate rack at HSC. I just have to pull the trigger very slowly and carefully.
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Picked up the LCR today finally. Absolutely love it. Can't believe how well it fits in my front pocket in a De Santis Nemesis. It's no more noticeable to me weight and bulk wise than my Cell Phone. What an improvement in Concealed Carry-ability over the M&P 40c. Impressed.
seanc
NES Member
J frames and snubbies are EXTREMELY accurate. The limitation of accuracy is the shooter. Revolvers with less moving parts are inherently more consistent and therefore more accurate than a semi.
It is all about getting the grip right and consistent and learning trigger control.
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For snubbies, I was so impressed with the 38cal LCR that I almost switched to wheel gun. The sw442 just doesn't feel right to me. I shot one for a few cylinders and found it a great piece, but not near as comfortable as the LCR.
And, well, I'm still embittered towards s&w due to a ppk debacle from a few years ago.
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And, well, I'm still embittered towards s&w due to a ppk debacle from a few years ago.
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Sterg
NES Member
My grip's all over the place. Probably due to the shock of firing 50 rounds. I think the best grip is my hand parellel with my arm.
Billsail
NES Member
Hold on tight. Not a "death grip", but tighter than you normally would. Keep both thumbs on your weak side, like this:
Sterg
NES Member
I agree. I scrutinized a Taurus at a shop for close to 4 bills and I didn't like the quality. 4S was having a sale on the 642 that came with a pocket holster for $320. I was all over it. I'll try that grip Bill. Thanks.
I guess i am. Have they improved in quality or changed owners or something?
I had a S&W 36. I loved that gun. BUT only if it had the Pachmyer grips (the larger ones). I could shoot that gun all day that way. Was quite accurate also. Problem was the grips turned it into a belt gun (too big for pocket carry). I traded it away.
Now, I'm looking for another pocket gun. I've decided on the Ruger. The stock grips fit perfect in my hand and work for the pants that I wear.
I looked at one at Undercover in Hudson. I'm not convinced yet. The cylinder seemed to have too much play in it. As I told my wife, if I had the money and didn't need it to depend on (i.e. range only gun), then maybe I'd get one and shoot the snot out of it to see how it does, but since I don't...
Aloha
Now, I'm looking for another pocket gun. I've decided on the Ruger. The stock grips fit perfect in my hand and work for the pants that I wear.
For me, when I shot my 36 with the boot grips and this hold, I tore the crap out of my thumb on the cylinder release. With the larger grips, I didn't. That was a HUGE factor for me in deciding on the Ruger. The gun fit better in my hand and has a smaller, better placed cylinder release.Hold on tight. Not a "death grip", but tighter than you normally would. Keep both thumbs on your weak side, like this:
I looked at one at Undercover in Hudson. I'm not convinced yet. The cylinder seemed to have too much play in it. As I told my wife, if I had the money and didn't need it to depend on (i.e. range only gun), then maybe I'd get one and shoot the snot out of it to see how it does, but since I don't...
Aloha
I installed the Apex spring kit in my model 60. It wasn't too hard. The hardest part was getting the stupid lock in there properly again, because I think at the time I wasn't sure about the legality of removing it.
I also did some polishing. Single action on the gun is...um...very very VERY light. Double action seems reasonable, though. The super light single action trigger makes it much easier to shoot accurately at distances longer that one would typically want to shoot a snubbie.
Hold on tight. Not a "death grip", but tighter than you normally would. Keep both thumbs on your weak side, like this:
This is definitely a recipe for cuts, especially if you're shooting .357's. Your right thumb cannot be anywhere near the cylinder release if you don't want to be bleeding after shooting it.
Not saying it's improper technique or anything...I wish I could hold my model 60 like this. But there's no way.
My impression, from reading up on the bulldog, is that early ones (late 60's, early 70's) were good and post 2000 are good. Quality can be spotty in between. Other that the Bulldog in 44 special, which fills a niche that more reputable companies have ignored, I don't see any reason to consider a charter arms over a S&W or Ruger.
dcmdon
NES Member
I've owned both. I currently carry a S&W 340 PD. I would never spend the money for a 340, I won it in a raffle at an IDPA match. Its a great gun but too expensive. It doesn't have any real advantage over the 442. The 442 is a great gun. But the ruger is better for most people. The LCR trigger feels like a S&W with a Grant Cunningham trigger job. You aren't going to get that with a wolf spring kit. The trigger makes it easier to shoot an inherently difficult gun to shoot, easier. The LCR also seems to recoil less.
Unfortunately part of that comes from the fact that its a bit bigger than the 442.
One thing going in the 442's favor is the availability of the 442 pro. For $25 extra, the pro has a cylinder cut for moon clips. Which is a fantastic thing in a small 5 shot revolver.
If you aren't into learning how to use moon clips, then the answer is easy. Get the ruger. There is a version of the LCR that has a grey aluminum frame rather than black. Its very sharp and is generally easier to get than the black one.
Don
Unfortunately part of that comes from the fact that its a bit bigger than the 442.
One thing going in the 442's favor is the availability of the 442 pro. For $25 extra, the pro has a cylinder cut for moon clips. Which is a fantastic thing in a small 5 shot revolver.
If you aren't into learning how to use moon clips, then the answer is easy. Get the ruger. There is a version of the LCR that has a grey aluminum frame rather than black. Its very sharp and is generally easier to get than the black one.
Don
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