Gold and silver prices are down

[Varmint]

Prices fixed. Conditions to significantly profit(anyone outside the system) would have to be catastrophic, enough so that exchanging precious metals for fiat currency would be one of the last things on your plate.

The beauty of gold, and why people here buy it, is that it's the one thing the government can't manipulate. The price is pretty much fixed, the value of everything else changes (the dollar, the yen, stocks, bonds etc). That's why gold will be valuable long after today's currencies are relegated to the history books.

Gold and silver are small markets, therefore you can manipulate prices by buying and selling large amounts, much more than say, you can manipulate the dollar, or the S&P500. But people here are buying for the long term, and we know that the more dollars, euros and yen they print, the more our gold and silver will be worth (eventually).

 

[Varmint]

Ah. Ok. You're coming at this from a purely investment strategy point of view. I have investments in stocks and US Bonds that have seen great growth.
PM's not so much. I separate the two, and use PM's as a store of wealth and not an instrument to increase it. Thanks for your reply.
~Matt

PMs don't really go up for 8 years and pop, like stocks. They tend to stagnate for long periods, then go on 2000% tears. 1929, 1971, 2001. That's probably cause there's so little of it. Something like $100 billion/year in new gold is mined. The Fed could buy up 10 years worth of new gold with a wave of their QE wand. That kind of thing would make the price skyrocket.

You'll see something similar soon, when the global feds have to start up the QE machine again to keep the bubbles from imploding. .

 

[enbloc]

PMs don't really go up for 8 years and pop, like stocks. They tend to stagnate for long periods, then go on 2000% tears. 1929, 1971, 2001. You'll see something similar soon.

This is true. Buy when stagnate, sell when the micro-bubble swells. Repeat!

 

[Win]

Silver is starting to get into buying territory as is platinum. I really enjoy collecting silver but it does get bulky.

 

[Varmint]

This pullback in PMs is a gift from the Fed, still pretending to be hawkish. I hope we go lower in gold in particular.

 

[Win]

Hedge fund boss who predicted the 1987 stock crash warns of a selloff in bonds

Seriously.

 

[Win]

PMs moving up this morning. Did I miss a piece of data? I'm not sure what changed opinions from yesterday to today?

 

[Varmint]

PMs moving up this morning. Did I miss a piece of data? I'm not sure what changed opinions from yesterday to today?

Last two days are all about Trump’s tariffs, and now he tweeted that trade wars are good. Flight to safety.

 

[55_grain]

Silver is starting to get into buying territory as is platinum. I really enjoy collecting silver but it does get bulky.

First world problems! I have a shovel you can borrow if your safe is full.
The premium on platinum rounds/coins seems steep vs Au/Ag, what is motivating you to hold that vs other PMs?

 

[Win]

First world problems! I have a shovel you can borrow if your safe is full.
The premium on platinum rounds/coins seems steep vs Au/Ag, what is motivating you to hold that vs other PMs?

I've seen low enough premiums on platinum at apmex in MS Eagles and MS Perth Mint coins for me to be comfortable buying. Platinum was up over $2K in 2008 and then spent a long period of time up over $1,400 2010-2014. When it gets down around $900, my personal opinion, is that it's more likely to be higher in the future than lower. Very thin market. As a collecting reason to own (as opposed to an investing reason) I enjoy having a collection of silver, gold and platinum to show my kids.

 

[yogi]

Will King dollar Kudlow sink gold?

 

[Varmint]

Will King dollar Kudlow sink gold?

More likely sign of a bottom.

 

[HappyHarry]

I've seen low enough premiums on platinum at apmex in MS Eagles and MS Perth Mint coins for me to be comfortable buying. Platinum was up over $2K in 2008 and then spent a long period of time up over $1,400 2010-2014. When it gets down around $900, my personal opinion, is that it's more likely to be higher in the future than lower. Very thin market. As a collecting reason to own (as opposed to an investing reason) I enjoy having a collection of silver, gold and platinum to show my kids.

IMHO gold & silver are better long-term investments than platinum, although I agree with others that metals should be considered more as a store for value than an investment. The largest current use of platinum is for catalytic converters, which account for about half the annual platinum consumption. As electric vehicles become more widespread, demand should be reduced.

 

[HappyHarry]

Police/Town likely pressured the shop to operate like a pawn-shop, and record and report purchases. It is probably a law in THIS State! I 'm not sure???

Not a state law, but I don't know of any city or town in MA that DOESN'T have a bylaw requiring dealers to be licensed to deal in second-hand goods (whether it's furniture, jewelry, or bullion), to get ID of sellers, maintain records of over-the-counter buying transactions, and hold most items bought for a period of time. I am in a retail jewelry store that also buys and sells coins, metals, etc. We have to copy ID of sellers and hold all goods, except bullion and coins, for 30 days.

 

[Win]

If silver gets down to $16/ounce there's going to be a lot of buying pressure and a lot of that buying pressure is going to come from me

 

[richc]

I just bought a little more. Kudlow may have a short term negative effect based upon his views of a strong dollar, but how the hell does one make a strong dollar with the US government debt so high and growing.

Kudlow means well, but he's often wrong with his predictions.

 

[Varmint]

Trump wants a weak dollar, but doesn’t want to say it publicly. Kudlow is just being a team player.

 

[Varmint]

I’m buying silver and gold though they could sell off, but when they bottom and take off it’ll happen too fast to get In cheaply.

 

[Win]

Of course I'm biased but it looks like a buying opportunity to me. I'm hoping that the fed raises rates to give us an even better buying opportunity.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The beauty of gold, and why people here buy it, is that it's the one thing the government can't manipulate.

Another beauty is that if personally held it is "unregistered". It makes it hard to attach in a civil collection, bankruptcy, etc. and can be passed to heirs without a trust, probate or taxation. You can have a substantial asset in gold and not be forced into medicaid spendown if you enter a nursing home, provided your memory has gone to the point where you forget about the gold when you fill out the MassHealth application (it's a crime not to disclose your hard asset holdings).

 

[Varmint]

Of course I'm biased but it looks like a buying opportunity to me. I'm hoping that the fed raises rates to give us an even better buying opportunity.

I'm wondering whether to buy before the rate hike as well.

There will certainly be a lot of "sell the rumor, buy the news" that lifts gold, but it depends more on the Fed tone, imo. If they come out hawkish, that'll hurt gold. I think they probably will continue their fake hawkish tone, since the stock market is doing well. When it sells off they'll back off the hawkish rhetoric.

The Fed will continue playing this game til it stops working (and they're forced to go very dovish in words and/or actions).

 

[Varmint]

Another beauty is that if personally held it is "unregistered". It makes it hard to attach in a civil collection, bankruptcy, etc. and can be passed to heirs without a trust, probate or taxation. You can have a substantial asset in gold and not be forced into medicaid spendown if you enter a nursing home, provided your memory has gone to the point where you forget about the gold when you fill out the MassHealth application (it's a crime not to disclose your hard asset holdings).

My kids are so lucky, they'll inherit a pile of gold, silver and guns. My dad is going to pass on a bunch of old computer crap and a vintage Geo Tracker.

 

[Win]

If the Fed postures and increases interest rates we could see $16 silver. I'm partial to gold but I do think that $16 silver is the better buy than $1,300 gold.

 

[JZ1018]

If the Fed postures and increases interest rates we could see $16 silver. I'm partial to gold but I do think that $16 silver is the better buy than $1,300 gold.

I was just thinking about this. Which, in your opinion is the better option. I buy between $100 and $200 of silver about each month. Should I start to send that on small quantities of gold, or continue with silver?

 

[Win]

I was just thinking about this. Which, in your opinion is the better option. I buy between $100 and $200 of silver about each month. Should I start to send that on small quantities of gold, or continue with silver?

The short answer is that I would base the answer to this question on the gold to silver price ratio. Gold to Silver Ratio - 100 Year Historical Chart

 

[Varmint]

I was just thinking about this. Which, in your opinion is the better option. I buy between $100 and $200 of silver about each month. Should I start to send that on small quantities of gold, or continue with silver?

Silver is just forgotten right now, nobody wants it, nobody's buying it. I think the bottom for silver is around 14, and gold like 1180. A lot of gold/silver experts think we'll revisit both this year.

no sign at all of a strong bull market in gold/silver yet, we're still stuck in a trading range. So buy at the bottom of the range.

 

[richc]

OK... I'm confused...

Today the Feds raised rates. Everything I've learned says when rates go up, the dollar strengthens. And when the dollar strengthens, gold goes down.

So why was gold up $20/1.5% today?

Inquiring minds would like to know!

 

[Win]

I was thinking the same thing so I had to listen to a few people and read a few articles. Sounds like investors had already factored this rate hike into the price of gold. This was to be the first of the 3 or 4 rates hikes this year. This hike was a near certainty. In his testimony, Powell backed off the idea of four rate hikes this year and instead suggested that the Fed would raise rates 3 times this year. One article I read described Powell's testimony as more optimistic than hawkish.

 

[Varmint]

OK... I'm confused...

Today the Feds raised rates. Everything I've learned says when rates go up, the dollar strengthens. And when the dollar strengthens, gold goes down.

So why was gold up $20/1.5% today?

Inquiring minds would like to know!

It wasn't the hike, it was the dovish forecast, including only 3 rate increases this year. Yes, he said the economy was strong but the market doesn't really care about the economy or the Fed's opinion of it, they just care about rates and stimulus.

So a dovish Fed helps gold. But keep in mind gold just drifted up inside it's trading range, it wasn't a significant increase, it just went from the middle to the high end of the range it's stuck in.

I think gold/silver and miners are going to eventually test the 2016 lows. That'll be a great buying opportunity if it happens.

 

[Varmint]

I was thinking the same thing so I had to listen to a few people and read a few articles. Sounds like investors had already factored this rate hike into the price of gold. This was to be the first of the 3 or 4 rates hikes this year. This hike was a near certainty. In his testimony, Powell backed off the idea of four rate hikes this year and instead suggested that the Fed would raise rates 3 times this year. One article I read described Powell's testimony as more optimistic than hawkish.

The market really wants to know if it still has the Fed in its pocket. The answer is a somewhat clear YES - the Fed continues to back off on the hawkish rhetoric every time the market sneezes. Today was more confirmation - Powell didn't dare sound hawkish with the stock market looking to test the 2018 lows.