Governor Patrick Files Bill to Drastically Increase License Fees

[pdm]

here is the thing about Mass.

With the Heller decision I think it can be argued that the CLEO 'suitability' determination can be construed as unconstitutional. Since Heller v. DC set law that 2A is an individual right and there are no set guidelines to follow to determine suitability, it can be argued that the 'may issue' in a state like Mass is unconstitutional, as you are in essence ASKING the State gov't to exercise what can now be claimed as a right protected under the US. Constitution.

Yeah, but until the 2nd is applied against the states, we're working with what we've got.

 

[doobie]

Good point, I have never thought of that. I can see if they charged a fee for the cost of the physical license and processing or whatever that stuff might amount to, then they might have a point. The actual right shall not be taxed or placed a fee upon. And $200.00 for the cost of the license or even $100.00 to me sounds a little high.

Why even license a right?

 

[Baystatesuks]

Why even license a right?

Because Deval needs money for illegal immigrants and new drapes.

Revenue is almost always the answer.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Let's not forget that, along with licensing fees, each new firearms owner in the state of Massachusetts is also required under current guidelines to pay a one time cost for training before being permitted to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.

While the principle of training a person to properly handle a firearm is wise. Making it mandatory and charging them fees for it is also essentially a violation of one's right.

After all, when was the last time you saw anyone charged a fee and asked to take a course before being permitted to enjoy their right to "freedom of speech"?

 

[Baystatesuks]

Let's not forget that, along with licensing fees, each new firearms owner in the state of Massachusetts is also required under current guidelines to pay a one time cost for training before being permitted to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.

While the principle of training a person to properly handle a firearm is wise. Making it mandatory and charging them fees for it is also essentially a violation of one's right.

After all, when was the last time you saw anyone charged a fee and asked to take a course before being permitted to enjoy their right to "freedom of speech"?

Some places in the US do charge you for a permit to demonstrate in mass or "assemble." Arguably, that is a charge for exercising free speech rights and/or freedom of assembly.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Some places in the US do charge you for a permit to demonstrate in mass or "assemble." Arguably, that is a charge for exercising free speech rights and/or freedom of assembly.

Maybe I'm wrong but I was always under the belief that the fee was not for the right to speak, but because (in most cases) the groups were outside, stationary, and so large as to occupy what is meant to be a "public" space in the town in such a manner as to make it unavailable to anyone else (ie: the public) so basically, you would be sort of "renting" the area.

Also, in some cases, if your assembly is going to be controversial enough to risk confrontations then the fee also covers increased police patrols in the area.

That was how I had always understood it at least.

 

[Skald]

Yeah, but until the 2nd is applied against the states, we're working with what we've got.

Yes, and the thing is you have to at some point try and get it incorporated to the states. We all know that they will never move to incorporate it here unless they were pretty much forced to.

Also, since Heller v DC applied specifically to DC, the whole settling of if the 2A was a collective or individual right has been determined. I would think that even though you live in Mass. that aspect of the Heller decisions would at least apply to anyone who wishes to challenge some of the asinine firearm laws there.

 

[doobie]

Because Deval needs money for illegal immigrants and new drapes.

Revenue is almost always the answer.

If you can't tax a right according to SCOTUS...why license it?

 

[doobie]

Let's not forget that, along with licensing fees, each new firearms owner in the state of Massachusetts is also required under current guidelines to pay a one time cost for training before being permitted to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.

One time? I thought some towns require a course to be taken with 6 months of (re)applying...

 

[pdm]

Yes, and the thing is you have to at some point try and get it incorporated to the states. We all know that they will never move to incorporate it here unless they were pretty much forced to.

Also, since Heller v DC applied specifically to DC, the whole settling of if the 2A was a collective or individual right has been determined. I would think that even though you live in Mass. that aspect of the Heller decisions would at least apply to anyone who wishes to challenge some of the asinine firearm laws there.

Unfortunately, it's not the feds screwing us in MA. As of now, MA is free to try to screw us out of a federal right.

 

[doobie]

Unfortunately, it's not the feds screwing us in MA. As of now, MA is free to try to screw us out of a federal right.

Wait, that isn't what the MA constitution says...

Article XVII. The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.

 

[pdm]

The MA constitution means what the SJC says it means. That's reality.

 

[Skald]

But I was under the impression that US Constitution trumps State Constitutions, especially in terms of rights, thats what I was at least taught.

I mean, if that was the case then during Prohibition Rhode Island or Conneticut could have allowed the sale of alcohol (only states to vote against prohibition).

 

[matt1956]

the sad part is... i'm sure that patrick is increasing fees on everything. i bet auto regitration fees will go up and many other fees accross the board.

but doubling a fee that is already too high is just uncalled for.

we need to fight this to the hilt, and if we lose at the state level, we need to go further with it.

 

[peterpressure]

My only response, an automated out of office reply...yay

Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: 2008 Special Appropriations Bill & licensing

Thank you for contacting my office. I appreciate the effort taken to voice your concerns.

Please know that my staff and I work diligently to respond to all of the issues and concerns that are brought to my attention. While I do check my e-mail regularly, I prefer to respond to constituents through written correspondence. For these reasons, please forward me your name, mailing address, and telephone number if you have not done so already. This will improve my ability to respond to you in a timely manner.

If this matter requires immediate attention, please do not hesitate to contact my office at (617) 722-1630.

Again, I thank you for your correspondence. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Steven C. Panagiotakos
State Senator
First Middlesex District

 

[peterpressure]

the sad part is... i'm sure that patrick is increasing fees on everything. i bet auto regitration fees will go up and many other fees accross the board.

I have a really bad feeling that the licensing fee increase is just the tip of the iceberg. The things in his bill we are NOT enraged about are probably going to cost us MUCH more.

 

[matt1956]

But I was under the impression that US Constitution trumps State Constitutions, especially in terms of rights, thats what I was at least taught.

I mean, if that was the case then during Prohibition Rhode Island could have allowed the sale of alcohol (only state to vote against prohibition).

it does... but that doesnt make it automatic... sadly... it still needs to get applied to the states by someone challenging it at the state level... THEN we can work on getting rid of some of these laws...

sad that even though they said it... it doesnt apply until we spend more money to make it so...

 

[the_shootist]

I have a really bad feeling that the licensing fee increase is just the tip of the iceberg. The things in his bill we are NOT enraged about are probably going to cost us MUCH more.

Which really begs the question....with so many other options out there, why continue to live in Massachusetts? My long range plans include a move out within a few years. I am just tired of paying out a huge chunk of what I make each week to fees, taxes, tolls and lining the pockets of the liberals that control our lives here.

Sorry for the pessimistic attitude but I've been here all my life (54 years) and I've just about had it.

 

[kevin9]

Email sent to my rep. He knows our family by name so I think he or his aide will read it. My Senator has already spoken out against them.

 

[P-14]

Workin' on my letters tonight and dropping them in the mail tomorrow.

Bob

 

[kevin9]

Update. Got a positive reply from my rep :

Kevin,

I contacted Rep. Denis Guyer ealier today to sign on as a co-sponsor to his amendments to the Governor's Supplemental budget bill, and will lobby my colleagues to support these amendments.

Thank you for your continued support.

Sincerely,

Bob


State Representative Robert L. Rice, Jr.

2nd Worcester District

State House, Room 33

Boston, MA 02133-1054

Tel. 617-722-2060 (Boston)

Fax 617-722-2849 (Boston)

[email protected]


District Office

Gardner City Hall – Room 209

95 Pleasant Street

Gardner, MA 01440-2630

Tel - 978-632-3255

Fax – 978-632-1990

From: Kevin Miller [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tue 7/15/2008 3:56 PM
To: Rice, Robert (HOU )
Subject: Governor Patrick's Proposed Budget

Dear Representative Rice,
I am writing to express my extreme displeasure with the special appropriations bill recently filed by Governor Patrick.

Section 26 of this yet-to-be-numbered bill would increase a resident License to Carry fee from $100 for six years to $200 for six years. This is a 100% increase in fees on licensed, law-abiding gun owning residents of Massachusetts. Section 27 would increase a non-resident License to Carry fee from $100 for one year to $250 for one year. This is a 150% increase in fees for law-abiding non-residents. Worst of all sections 24 and 25 attack lawfully licensed firearm dealers by
increasing their license fees from $100 for three years to $250. Then
it adds a $100 inspection fee in years two and three of the license.
This is a 350% increase in fees for a three year dealer's license.

Massachusetts firearms licensing fees are already some of the highest
in the country making it difficult for ordinary, law-abiding citizens
to exercise their confirmed Constitutional right. These increases are then a most regressive attack
on the rights of those very citizens. They appear to be an
attempt to raise the cost of firearms, both for licensing and dealer
costs which are likely to be passed on to consumers, beyond the reach
of the ordinary persons. A right that can only be exercise by a few well-to-do individuals due to government-imposed costs is no right at all.

I whole-heartedly agree with Mr Jim Wallace, Executive Director of GOAL who said "In light of the recent Supreme Court ruling, this new proposal from
the Governor can only be viewed as an attempt to tax people out of
their civil rights". He also stated that "With
this new proposal, the Governor continues to demonstrate his
willingness to attack lawful gun owners while doing nothing to reduce
violent crime. The highest court in the nation has ruled that citizens
have an individual right to possess a firearm and now our Governor is
trying to tax us out of that right!"

I strongly urge you as my representative to oppose these unconscionable fee increases. It is my understanding that Representative Guyer has filed amendments to nullify these increases: I ask that you support these amendments. Furthermore, I ask that you support any bills or amendments that reduce the already too-high firearms licensing fees.

Thank you
Kevin Miller
...
Winchendon, MA

 

[Admin]

Nice!

 

[Baystatesuks]

But I was under the impression that US Constitution trumps State Constitutions, especially in terms of rights, thats what I was at least taught.

Not necessarily true in all cases. Federal preemption, supremacy clause, commerce clause and dormant commerce clause are reasons that federal laws may trump those of states.

But remember that the federal govt. is a govt. of limited powers. All powers not provided to the federal govt. are reserved to the states or the people (or in our state, the democrats).

 

[Kurtz]

Maybe it's time for all of us to NOT renew our licenses, say screw you, come get some. You know the drill, it happened 232 years ago.

 

[Kurtz]

Maybe this is why they're building a large detention center on Camp Edwards... It's about 2 football fields long. Concrete walls with chain link on top, and barbed wire facing inwards. If you want to keep someone out doesn't the barbed wire face outwards? I've been working out there, this place is completed.

Google REX84

 

[Baystatesuks]

Maybe this is why they're building a large detention center on Camp Edwards... It's about 2 football fields long. Concrete walls with chain link on top, and barbed wire facing inwards. If you want to keep someone out doesn't the barbed wire face outwards? I've been working out there, this place is completed.

Google REX84

Bet we are all on the ADEX list. Time to pack my overnight bag just in case.

 

[JimB]

called

I called Patricks office and left a meaningful message along with my phone
number and name. I will also call my reps, and send them a letter.

JimB

 

[C-pher]

Well, I sent out letters yesterday to my State Senator and Representive....

Letter basically saying that as a voter and a Member of our Town RTM, that I won't support anyone that votes for this...

I got a call today from My Senator, Scott Brown.

He said that he believe whole heartedly that this is a tax on our Constitutional Right to own firearms. He said that he is against this, and will vote against this when it comes before him. He then thanked me for my passion and time to write him, and said that if there's anything else to stop by his office and/or give him a call.

So, he seemed to care enough to not just reply to my letter, but to call me on the phone here at home.

I'll take that as a positive.

 

[Riverside]

Well, I sent out letters yesterday to my State Senator and Representive....

Letter basically saying that as a voter and a Member of our Town RTM, that I won't support anyone that votes for this...

I got a call today from My Senator, Scott Brown.

He said that he believe whole heartedly that this is a tax on our Constitutional Right to own firearms. He said that he is against this, and will vote against this when it comes before him. He then thanked me for my passion and time to write him, and said that if there's anything else to stop by his office and/or give him a call.

So, he seemed to care enough to not just reply to my letter, but to call me on the phone here at home.

I'll take that as a positive.

I've heard nothing but good things about him. He's nice looking as well.
I sent my letters out Monday. I doubt I'll get a phone call. My Senator is Marian Walsh and my Rep is WillieMay Allen.
Best Regards.

 

[Jackcammer]

Deval Patrick coming to Amesbury

He will be in Amesbury Wed July 16th 6pm at the Upper Millyard Ampitheatrer.
Please come to voice your opinion.