Guide to gun rights in your Massachusetts town

[terraformer]

Middleton-Green
The Chief was a great guy and originally was going to issue me a Class B but then I gave him my background and my business plan and he issued me with an A. He stated that he normally issue a Class B for first time applicants because he would like the new shooter to get some trigger time out at the range and take some basic C&C pistol classes before he'll issue them a class A carry permit. Sounds logical to me... CYA is not a bad thing ya know...

If you don't mind us asking, how old are you? It matters in some towns. And was this ALP (aka; no restrictions)?

 

[massnee]

Middleton-Green
The Chief was a great guy and originally was going to issue me a Class B but then I gave him my background and my business plan and he issued me with an A. He stated that he normally issue a Class B for first time applicants because he would like the new shooter to get some trigger time out at the range and take some basic C&C pistol classes before he'll issue them a class A carry permit. Sounds logical to me... CYA is not a bad thing ya know...

glad you got your license...your town is definitely RED.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

glad you got your license...your town is definitely RED.

dude even red is being nice, I call it black. What possible rationalization could a COP make thinking an ltcb is so show a safer choice for newbies or will entice people to get extra range time? The guy sounds like a fool.

 

[terraformer]

dude even red is being nice, I call it black. What possible rationalization could a COP make thinking an ltcb is so show a safer choice for newbies or will entice people to get extra range time? The guy sounds like a fool.

I think we need more info before we color Middleton Red/Black/lavender/etc. There are chiefs who step people up, like Peabody and other north shore towns (they talk to each other. Ex: Watertown actively solicits neighboring towns to do the same as them). I am wondering if Middleton has gone that way (and that is important to know) but still offers ALP to older more experienced shooters.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

glad you got your license...your town is definitely RED.

dude even red is being nice, I call it black. What possible rationalization could a COP make thinking an ltcb is so show a safer choice for newbies or will entice people to get extra range time? The guy sounds like a fool.

 

[WayneWong]

Chiefs of Police are civil servants and should not be exercising their opinions in regard to how, if, or when a person should be exercising their God given , second amendment affirmed rights.

The class A versus Class B distinctions are as equally ridiculous as the class A H&T/S restrictions. Personally, a class B rammed up my rear end is reason enough for me to buy a S&W 500 and learn to use it, and learn to endure the recoil until my body looks like that of a steroid infused Russian weight lifter.

Then I'd take videos of me knocking over targets on the range, blasting them into oblivion. The video narrative would explain that had I not been restricted to low capacity handguns, I never would have bought this cool 50 caliber revolver.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Sorry I posted, but I agree with the Chief. If I was in his shoes, I would not just hand out a Class A CCW permit to just anyone. I believe that one should be trained, have common knowledge of firearms and firearms safety. And the most important thing, know the laws in their area and know their Use of Force Continuum and how to use it. In my experience, most have no idea what a justified shooting is or their legal guidelines if such a situation should happen. Also, to answer a few prior questions, my age is 45 and as far as the ALP...yes.
That being said, I'm not looking to discuss this matter any further. I'm a little taken back by some of the responses, but it is what it is. Some of you look at this as a violation of your second amendment rights, but I look at it from a point of safety. I know of to many stories where someone was killed in their house or shot at the range due to an inexperienced shooter and a few guys are behind bars right now doing 20 years because they thought they had the right to shoot, we in fact they didn't. We all have our 2 cents to offer and we all have an opinion on subject that we feel strongly about. My opinion is, I agree with the Chief. So paint the town what ever color you want.
I'll think twice before I post again on NE Shooters...

 

[Admin]

 

[massnee]

........

 

[drgrant]

Sorry I posted, but I agree with the Chief. If I was in his shoes, I would not just hand out a Class A CCW permit to just anyone.

I bet you wouldn't be saying the same crap if the chief denied you and said those same words to your face- After all, it's more or less within his right to do so under the system we have in MA.


-Mike

 

[Scrivener]

Sorry I posted, but I agree with the Chief. If I was in his shoes, I would not just hand out a Class A CCW permit to just anyone. I believe that one should be trained, have common knowledge of firearms and firearms safety. And the most important thing, know the laws in their area and know their Use of Force Continuum and how to use it. In my experience, most have no idea what a justified shooting is or their legal guidelines if such a situation should happen. Also, to answer a few prior questions, my age is 45 and as far as the ALP...yes.
That being said, I'm not looking to discuss this matter any further.

Your apologia is predicated upon ignorance.

Indeed, that is a charitable assessment. Perhaps you are aware that ANY firearms license in MA requires:

1. Passing an approved safety course; AND

2. A full background check.

Any LTC is further at the whim of the individual chief, which practice you happily endorse.

Ergo, any holder of an LTC is NOT "just anyone."

Further proof of your ignorance - again being charitable - is your specious defense of "B-ramming" as prevention of harm from "just hand[ing] out a Class A CCW permit to just anyone." As those who aren't wholly clueless are already aware, your sainted chief could achieve your stated objective by issuing a restricted A. Crisis resolved.

As for your fleeing from this site, so be it. It is, after all, Northeast Shooters; not Northeast Invertebrates. Perhaps you would be happier at DU.

 

[kevin9]

VA, it sounds like you think ones full RKBA is somehow to be earned. Sorry, that sounds like a privilege, not a right. You are welcome to post here, just be aware that your apparent view puts you in a distinct minority on NES.

 

[Moderator]

Who let the in?

 

[dreppucci007]

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Let me take two steeps back and check my 6! I'm not the greatest when it comes to putting my words in writing so let me try to clear up a few things... A)When I said I would think twice about posting again I meant just that. I didn't mean I was jumping ship, I just meant I would think twice about what I was writing and how I was writing it. (case in point were the responses) B)As far as training before carrying, I wear a vest when I train for a reason. I can't tell you how many times I've been flagged by one of my students during classes at the range. I had one guy who just got his CCW pull out his pistol and pass it to me without even clearing it and we were at a gun shop not a range! C)I just moved to Mass and I'm not yet up to speed on the laws and restriction or how truly difficult it is to get a Class A CCW. (I have no idea what "B-ramming" is) I've just seen and heard of some scary things and the one main thing that I preach when I'm out at the range is safety, safety, safety. I'm all for the 2nd amendment, and it is our right and not a privilege, but I would hate to be the guy who issue a permit to someone who blows someone away because he was showing his buddy his new toy. I know that the folks here on NES are responsible gun owners, but you have to admit, even thou someone passes an approved safety course and background check, some folks shouldn't have a screw driver in their hands let alone a firearm. Anyway, I hope that one day at the range if any of us meet, I can clarify my position a little better.

 

[massnee]

.............

 

[Moderator]

Let's move past this. I don't want to crap up this thread any further.

 

[KMaurer]

Sorry I posted, but I agree with the Chief. If I was in his shoes, I would not just hand out a Class A CCW permit to just anyone. I believe that one should be trained, have common knowledge of firearms and firearms safety. And the most important thing, know the laws in their area and know their Use of Force Continuum and how to use it. In my experience, most have no idea what a justified shooting is or their legal guidelines if such a situation should happen. Also, to answer a few prior questions, my age is 45 and as far as the ALP...yes.

It's interesting that you indicate you have an unrestricted LTC. I'm assuming that you, like most everyone else, took the state mandated training before you were issued the license. The reason I bring up this point is that everyone applying for a first-time license, regardless of its type, is already required by law to take such a course. Among the things covered in most courses are "common knowledge of firearms and firearms safety ... laws in [Massachusetts] and ... Use of Force Continuum and how to use it." As a result, it would seem that "just anyone" who meets the statutory requirements to be issued any license, no matter how restricted, already has the training you insist they should.

Ken

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Let's move past this. I don't want to crap up this thread any further.

Agreed.


I do think me saying "a town that issues a B permit is neither red nor green but black" was in no way an unfair assessment of the situation presented.



Carry on!*



*see the double entendre there? carry on like move on and carry on like cocnealed carry. Oh, eff it, Im tired.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Yes KMaurer, I did take the class. Even thou my credential are as follows, I did still need to take the class to get my unrestricted LTC here in Mass;
Former Special Weapons Coordinator for Sig Sauer
Trained in Special Weapons Combat (Blackwater)
Close Quarter Combat Techniques (Sig Sauer)
Advanced Rifle and Pistol Combat Techniques (Blackwater)
Sig Sauer Armourer
Glock Armourer
Swiss Arms 55X Tactical Rifle Armourer
Conceal Carry Certified
Basic and Advanced Handgun Orientation Certified
President of W.A.S.T.E.D (Weapons and Special Tactics Education)

TYPEO1313 I agree, this was not the type of communication I was looking to start and I will end it here. The point I was trying to make missed it target completely and the last thing I wanted to do was start a pissing contest.

 

[terraformer]

I do think me saying "a town that issues a B permit is neither red nor green but black" was in no way an unfair assessment of the situation presented.

Yes, we should move on, but the point of me asking age was to see if they would b-ram* an older person and an experienced person. He seems to be not a 21 yr old and has the experience. Some of the northshore towns are starting to coordinate their biases as are some metrowest towns. This is troubling actually but lets not go there in this thread.

Middleton has traditionally been a green town, and maybe it still is for renewals, and not first timers. This we need to find out. Carping about a newbies views does not get us better data on what middleton's actual policies are.

* B-Ramming is when they decide that you are not competent enough for large capactiy pistols and say that to start off you must only be able to buy low capacity pistols and revolvers. And you can't carry, meanwhile you can't carry with a restricted so clearly b-ramming is just dumb considering you can get any 1911, a sig p239 & p220 (but not a 229 nor a p226), a S&W 500, but not a S&W 41. It makes zero sense to anyone who know ballistics and guns in general. Which speaks volumes about the CLEO. Basically in these parts, no one thinks that the LTC B should be in existence in it's current form.

 

[FrugalFannie]

What color is Dracut

Asking for a friend. Is Dracut still RED?

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Yes, we should move on, but the point of me asking age was to see if they would b-ram* an older person and an experienced person. He seems to be not a 21 yr old and has the experience. Some of the northshore towns are starting to coordinate their biases as are some metrowest towns. This is troubling actually but lets not go there in this thread.

Middleton has traditionally been a green town, and maybe it still is for renewals, and not first timers. This we need to find out. Carping about a newbies views does not get us better data on what middleton's actual policies are.

* B-Ramming is when they decide that you are not competent enough for large capactiy pistols and say that to start off you must only be able to buy low capacity pistols and revolvers. And you can't carry, meanwhile you can't carry with a restricted so clearly b-ramming is just dumb considering you can get any 1911, a sig p239 & p220 (but not a 229 nor a p226), a S&W 500, but not a S&W 41. It makes zero sense to anyone who know ballistics and guns in general. Which speaks volumes about the CLEO. Basically in these parts, no one thinks that the LTC B should be in existence in it's current form.

Yeah Middleton should now be black on the list, it like you said the issue comes from how do truly know if they treat renewals differently? Either way a COPs mere mention on an ltc-bmakes it black.

 

[terraformer]

Yeah Middleton should now be black on the list, it like you said the issue comes from how do truly know if they treat renewals differently? Either way a COPs mere mention on an ltc-bmakes it black.

Than Peabody needs to be black since they B-Ram. But I will say, they do give As afterwards unlike the other black towns like Salem and Canton. I can't wait until you get that spreadsheet done. This tri-color scheme is way too inadequate.

 

[Moderator]

Than Peabody needs to be black since they B-Ram. But I will say, they do give As afterwards unlike the other black towns like Salem and Canton. I can't wait until you get that spreadsheet done. This tri-color scheme is way too inadequate.

Thanks

 

[Moderator]

Maybe we should fill out peoples applications while we are at it. All the information is here. It's good for people to do research for themselves to see how bad it is in their town, or see what different members experienced in the same towns. This is the reason why I refuse to change colors when people PM me information. Maybe some of you live in a world where you expect everyone else to do all the dirty work, I like to get all the facts, not just look at the cheat sheet. I'm done bitching for now.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Maybe we should fill out peoples applications while we are at it. All the information is here. It's good for people to do research for themselves to see how bad it is in their town, or see what different members experienced in the same towns. This is the reason why I refuse to change colors when people PM me information. Maybe some of you live in a world where you expect everyone else to do all the dirty work, I like to get all the facts, not just look at the cheat sheet. I'm done bitching for now.

while I have discussed it with you B.J., a cheat sheet gives just the bare minimum and this is not doing that. This was to take the most recent info and use that. Some of the towns colors are almost two years old, and things have changed as ha been reported here, yet the list doesn't reflect that. Quincy and Pittsfield come to mind.

The other reason is because the search function is tough to use when looking for info about your town. Sure you know is in that thread, but to sift throgb 100 pages to do so is a little too time consuming IMHO. Like I said before we encounter towns who treats renewAls differenty than first timers and that info is not made clear or is misleading.

This is not an attempt to replace the I to here, this was a project spawned from boredom thAt I thought would helpful to some, nothing more.

 

[terraformer]

Thanks

You deleted your other post but the gist was we were complaining about not having as easy access to the information. I can only speak for me when I say that I am not complaining, but trying to make it better. I was going to take that spreadsheet bostonasphalt is up to and load it up into google maps and geocode to the center of every town a list of attributes relevant to that town's policies. It would be really cool if derek and I could work out a way for me to geocode links to posts within this thread specific to a particular town but I haven't spoken with him about it but he is db guy and I know code, so it should be doable and could be a cool extra feature. The whole reason for all of this is the current thread is over 1000 posts long and daunting for anyone to browse. The only other possibility would be to have a thread for each town but that means 361 individual threads. All I am trying to do is make this info more useful in multiple ways to many different people with many different needs.
Nothing I said was aimed directly at you or the excellent work you have done here.

Edit: odd... You other post is back now. Weird stuff has been happening lately.

 

[Moderator]

Like I said, I'm done bitching. Lets get back to the colors.

 

[45collector]

I just stopped by the Falmouth PD to grap an FA-10. Just being curious, I asked the woman at the licensing desk what chief Riello's policies were regarding issuing LTC-A's. She said that's a pretty vague question, so I elaborated: What can someone expect, having moved to Falmouth with an LTC-A with no restrictions issued from another town, when it comes time to renew said license? She said he is issuing no restrictions, in such a case.
I'm not sure how that pertains to someone like myself with a little blemish on their record, but that's what she said.