Gun Club closure megathread

[allen-1]

Academi is an indoor range in Salem Connecticut that I shoot at occasionally. I know a couple of the guys that work there and a number of people that shoot there.

Got an email from them this morning:

During this difficult time we at ACADEMI would like to reach out to our valued customers and let them know that we are thinking about you. We hope that each of you and your families are staying safe and healthy during these unprecedented times.

We are currently planning on a June reopening with all of our services being available at that time. Our 50 dollar clinics have been very popular and we hope that you take advantage of them when we return. If you or someone you know needs a pistol permit we will be hosting those as well.

Please follow us on Facebook at ACADEMI Training Center Northeast for updates and calendars or on Instagram ACADEMI_Training_NE

Thank you all for your continued support.

 

[ArpNet]

I spoke with a Harvard Sportsman Club board member yesterday and I have a lot better understanding of what these closures entail. Every club has to register their board members with the state and they have to list the home address, phone number, etc. of each board member. And certain permits are signed by specific board members. For example, tax documents are signed by the finance officer and the club registration is signed by the president. So when these orders come to a club, they don't come to the club in general, they come to a specific board member. That is a lot to ask of a board member to stand up to the state. The state sent a letter to the instructors of gun courses that if they don't comply with ceasing classes, their personal LTC could be revoked. In MA we live in a very guilty until you prove yourself innocent world. While I know these closures have been a real disappointment to all of us, I can't say I would have done anything differently as a board member. Harvard is opening back up and board members have volunteered their own time to come in and sit at the front and assign people to specific ranges. These guys are going above and beyond and I personally think they are doing this right at Harvard.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The state sent a letter to the instructors of gun courses that if they don't comply with ceasing classes, their personal LTC could be revoked.

Did you see the letter or just relaying what you heard? In an arena where precision matters, information often changes just a bit.

The letter I received from the MSP regarding my training certification stated that I was not authorized to conduct training until further notice. I did not contain any threat about an LTC being revoked if I conducted any training. If there is a version of the letter with that threat I would appreciate a copy.

 

[ScottS]

I spoke with a Harvard Sportsman Club board member yesterday and I have a lot better understanding of what these closures entail. Every club has to register their board members with the state and they have to list the home address, phone number, etc. of each board member. And certain permits are signed by specific board members. For example, tax documents are signed by the finance officer and the club registration is signed by the president. So when these orders come to a club, they don't come to the club in general, they come to a specific board member. That is a lot to ask of a board member to stand up to the state. The state sent a letter to the instructors of gun courses that if they don't comply with ceasing classes, their personal LTC could be revoked. In MA we live in a very guilty until you prove yourself innocent world. While I know these closures have been a real disappointment to all of us, I can't say I would have done anything differently as a board member. Harvard is opening back up and board members have volunteered their own time to come in and sit at the front and assign people to specific ranges. These guys are going above and beyond and I personally think they are doing this right at Harvard.

Wow. Begs the question as to why anyone would want to hold these positions.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Did you see the letter or just relaying what you heard? In an arena where precision matters, information often changes just a bit.

The letter I received from the MSP regarding my training certification stated that I was not authorized to conduct training until further notice. I did not contain any threat about an LTC being revoked if I conducted any training. If there is a version of the letter with that threat I would appreciate a copy.

From MSP on Apr 24:

BFS virtual training has been approved. If you wish to instruct virtually you will need to send an email to me requesting to be approved to provide virtual BFS training. In your email you must include your name, address, contact number, email address, your BFS Certification number and the course you wish to instruct.

Once we receive your email we will review your request and if approved we will send you additional information on what steps you will need to take, especially at the beginning of every class you instruct.

At no time should you be instructing virtually without approval from Colonel Mason or his designee.

Please be advised that the Colonel's authorization for the online Basic Firearm Safety Program expires when the state of emergency in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has been lifted.

Be safe and stay healthy,

Kristin M. Ryan

 

[Mesatchornug]

Wow. Begs the question as to why anyone would want to hold these positions.

Board Membership of any corporation (which is what a sportsmen's club is) includes certain filing requirements for tax and regulatory purposes.

I think the cancellation of personal LTCs is probably a misunderstanding of this email:

Good Afternoon,

I hope this email finds you and your family safe and healthy.

As you are aware on March 22, 2020, Governor Charlie Baker ordered that all businesses and organizations not providing “COVID-19 Essential Services” to close their physical workplaces and facilities to workers, customers and the public as of noon on March 24th until noon on April 7th. As of March 31st, this has been extended til May 4th.

It has come to our attention that BFS and LEOSA Instructors have been continuing their firearms training classes whether in person or through virtual training during this pandemic.

As of this writing, you are not approved to instruct any firearms training with respect to 515 CMR 3.00 & 6.00 whether in person or through virtual training.

Any changes and/or updates regarding training we will notify you via email.

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I think the cancellation of personal LTCs is probably a misunderstanding of this email:

People remember things, sort of, then fill in the blanks. We even have LTC applicants who cant remember if they were convicted, CWOFed or charges dismissed outright.

 

[Wjhall]

I spoke with a Harvard Sportsman Club board member yesterday and I have a lot better understanding of what these closures entail. Every club has to register their board members with the state and they have to list the home address, phone number, etc. of each board member. And certain permits are signed by specific board members. For example, tax documents are signed by the finance officer and the club registration is signed by the president. So when these orders come to a club, they don't come to the club in general, they come to a specific board member. That is a lot to ask of a board member to stand up to the state. The state sent a letter to the instructors of gun courses that if they don't comply with ceasing classes, their personal LTC could be revoked. In MA we live in a very guilty until you prove yourself innocent world. While I know these closures have been a real disappointment to all of us, I can't say I would have done anything differently as a board member. Harvard is opening back up and board members have volunteered their own time to come in and sit at the front and assign people to specific ranges. These guys are going above and beyond and I personally think they are doing this right at Harvard.

As a Board Member at a different Club, I would certainly like to better understand this post. Please ask this person if they can convey any details or specficic information.

 

[ScottS]

Board Membership of any corporation (which is what a sportsmen's club is) includes certain filing requirements for tax and regulatory purposes.

I think the cancellation of personal LTCs is probably a misunderstanding of this email:

I've served on the Board of our Club (Treasurer), albeit in NH not MA, but I don't remember providing my home address, and there never was any implicit threat of sanction (loss of license, etc).

I don't see how someone could misunderstand the letter you quoted into a loss of LTC situation. I suspect there's something else out there.

 

[milktree]

BFS virtual training has been approved. If you wish to instruct virtually you will need to send an email to me requesting to be approved to provide virtual BFS training. In your email you must include your name, address, contact number, email address, your BFS Certification number and the course you wish to instruct.

Once we receive your email we will review your request and if approved we will send you additional information on what steps you will need to take, especially at the beginning of every class you instruct.

At no time should you be instructing virtually without approval from Colonel Mason or his designee.

Please be advised that the Colonel's authorization for the online Basic Firearm Safety Program expires when the state of emergency in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has been lifted.

Be safe and stay healthy,

Kristin M. Ryan

I did not get this email.

It's more than a little infuriating that they have to review every request, rather than just saying, "yea, you can do it" or giving any indication what criteria need met to get approved.

As an aside: I'm not sure how one could teach a reasonable safety course remotely anyway. If the students can't touch guns, it's rather hard for them to demonstrate any proficiency. Is this virtual teaching applicable to something like hunter's ed?

 

[Mesatchornug]

I did not get this email.

It's more than a little infuriating that they have to review every request, rather than just saying, "yea, you can do it" or giving any indication what criteria need met to get approved.

As an aside: I'm not sure how one could teach a reasonable safety course remotely anyway. If the students can't touch guns, it's rather hard for them to demonstrate any proficiency. Is this virtual teaching applicable to something like hunter's ed?

I mean, you can already take Hunter's Ed online in several states. In fact there are two or three that don't even require a field day (which I suppose would be roughly equivalent to live handling of firearms). For folks who just need to "check the box" this seems like a reasonable solution. For folks who really have no background, it'll be somewhat of a limiting experience.

 

[milktree]

I mean, you can already take Hunter's Ed online in several states. In fact there are two or three that don't even require a field day (which I suppose would be roughly equivalent to live handling of firearms). For folks who just need to "check the box" this seems like a reasonable solution. For folks who really have no background, it'll be somewhat of a limiting experience.

In Mass this does limit online safety classes to hunter's ed, doesn't it?

The two others I'm familiar with - NRA Basic Pistol and NRA Home Firearm Safety - both have lots of hands on, even if there's no live fire.

Are there any other BFS approved courses that are "demonstration only"? (adaptable to distance learning)

 

[ILikeGlocks]

Did you see the letter or just relaying what you heard? In an arena where precision matters, information often changes just a bit.

The letter I received from the MSP regarding my training certification stated that I was not authorized to conduct training until further notice. I did not contain any threat about an LTC being revoked if I conducted any training. If there is a version of the letter with that threat I would appreciate a copy.

I got the letter, I don't recall any revocation discussion.

I do now have permission to teach virtually, the approval turnaround was surprisingly quick!

 

[Mesatchornug]

In Mass this does limit online safety classes to hunter's ed, doesn't it?

The two others I'm familiar with - NRA Basic Pistol and NRA Home Firearm Safety - both have lots of hands on, even if there's no live fire.

Are there any other BFS approved courses that are "demonstration only"? (adaptable to distance learning)

@Mass Firearms sent an email the other day that they've been given a green light to teach online. I'm sure others have as well. I have no idea how they're running the class, but I'd bet you can ask.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Wow. Begs the question as to why anyone would want to hold these positions.

As a Board Member at a different Club, I would certainly like to better understand this post. Please ask this person if they can convey any details or specficic information.

I'll lump these questions/comments into one response.

Go to the MA Sec. of State's website and do a corporate query. Any company that you like and when you drill down you will find a list of officers and BOD members along with their personal home addresses. This is all required by MGL. I don't know if every state does this, but MA certainly does and has been doing it for probably >50 yrs. As a Constable, I certainly understand why as it is required that one be able to hunt down and personally serve any officer or BOD member of any org with a lawsuit or subpoena.

People remember things, sort of, then fill in the blanks. We even have LTC applicants who cant remember if they were convicted, CWOFed or charges dismissed outright.

I have one better, I know someone who was denied his LTC renewal due to lying on the application. It seems that he "forgot" that he was ever arrested and spent 3 days in jail before being released. That was his actual excuse to his chief! He was bitching to me about being denied. I can't even imagine how someone can "forget" such an experience!!

I did not get this email.

It's more than a little infuriating that they have to review every request, rather than just saying, "yea, you can do it" or giving any indication what criteria need met to get approved.

As an aside: I'm not sure how one could teach a reasonable safety course remotely anyway. If the students can't touch guns, it's rather hard for them to demonstrate any proficiency. Is this virtual teaching applicable to something like hunter's ed?

I only got the Email suspending all teaching. Anything subsequent I only saw here on NES or GOAL's website.

I've also learned that NRA demands hands-on for BP and HFS and we are forbidden from issuing the NRA certs without doing that (at some future date) if we teach a virtual class. So I see it as pointless to even apply for that permission. As for MFS, they teach a proprietary class that does allow modification, so likely they can teach it virtually with no hands-on and certify students. The wisdom of this for new shooters totally escapes me . . . all you are doing is "part 1" of a 2-part class, with part 2 delayed until we are all out of CV-19 jail.

 

[ScottS]

I'll lump these questions/comments into one response.

Go to the MA Sec. of State's website and do a corporate query. Any company that you like and when you drill down you will find a list of officers and BOD members along with their personal home addresses. This is all required by MGL. I don't know if every state does this, but MA certainly does and has been doing it for probably >50 yrs. As a Constable, I certainly understand why as it is required that one be able to hunt down and personally serve any officer or BOD member of any org with a lawsuit or subpoena.

Might be different for us, as our club is not incorporated, and operates as a 501c or 503c, I forget which...
Still, I would think twice about serving if the LTC threat is, in fact, real.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Might be different for us, as our club is not incorporated, and operates as a 501c or 503c, I forget which...
Still, I would think twice about serving if the LTC threat is, in fact, real.

If the club operates as a 501(c)#, it is incorporated. That's how it gets the status of being a 501(c) org. That said, it's entirely possible different states have different filing requirements.

Per the earlier post, the alleged threat to the LTC was for instructors that teach when we're not supposed to be doing so. Of course, without any more information, that seems to be rumor.

 

[Editor]

Wow. Begs the question as to why anyone would want to hold these positions.

Names and addresses of officers and directors of all corporations is public information, freely available to anyone with a web browser.

 

[ScottS]

Names and addresses of officers and directors of all corporations is public information, freely available to anyone with a web browser.

Right. I didn't realize the Gun Club was a corporation.

 

[milktree]

I only got the Email suspending all teaching. Anything subsequent I only saw here on NES or GOAL's website.

I got the email between my previous post and now. I guess the state's email servers can't handle sending out an email to all the instructors at once.

 

[Asaltweapon]

I got the email between my previous post and now. I guess the state's email servers can't handle sending out an email to all the instructors at once.

A betting man would say it’s the person sending it out.

 

[Mesatchornug]

A betting man would say it’s the person sending it out.

If I were a betting man, I'd say it's intentional to sow confusion. Good thing I'm not big on games of chance...

 

[Len-2A Training]

I got the email between my previous post and now. I guess the state's email servers can't handle sending out an email to all the instructors at once.

Yes, I just received my Email this afternoon. It's only 7 days after GOAL (and apparently some instructors) got theirs. And it doesn't address any of the Q&A that GOAL asked/received which is significant. It also doesn't address the fact that NRA has stated that until you can go touchy-feely with your students, you can NOT issue a course certificate to them. So you can do virtual and once the pandemic is over, you must meet and finish the course. Thus, no advantage for NRA instructors to get permission from MSP to teach virtually.

 

[enbloc]

This way Baker can say: "No need to tie up the courts, we have remedied the situation." ... when it really hasn't.

 

[yanici]

Yes, I just received my Email this afternoon. It's only 7 days after GOAL (and apparently some instructors) got theirs. And it doesn't address any of the Q&A that GOAL asked/received which is significant. It also doesn't address the fact that NRA has stated that until you can go touchy-feely with your students, you can NOT issue a course certificate to them. So you can do virtual and once the pandemic is over, you must meet and finish the course. Thus, no advantage for NRA instructors to get permission from MSP to teach virtually.

I agree completely. I did send an email to Kristin to ask if might be possible to start smaller in-person classes sooner. Of course the live fire and certs would need to wait if your NRA class required it. She replied very simply that it was a no go at this time.

 

[drgrant]

I did not get this email.

It's more than a little infuriating that they have to review every request, rather than just saying, "yea, you can do it" or giving any indication what criteria need met to get approved.

As an aside: I'm not sure how one could teach a reasonable safety course remotely anyway. If the students can't touch guns, it's rather hard for them to demonstrate any proficiency. Is this virtual teaching applicable to something like hunter's ed?

It's just more obstructionism designed to piss people off/deter them. "They" want to tamp any corona-based licensing surge as much as possible. The cabal and others don't like the fact that corona BS could easily add another 20,000 LTC holders to the rolls. (yes, I pulled that number out of my ass, but I bet it is conservative, if the amount of people turned away by gun shops at the
beginning of this is any indication. )

-Mike

 

[soam]

It's my birthday, the range is open, and I just dumped nearly 200 rounds through the Max-11/15. Life sucks just a bit less than it did before!

 

[Matt_SERE]

It's my birthday, the range is open, and I just dumped nearly 200 rounds through the Max-11/15. Life sucks just a bit less than it did before!

View attachment 353650

Happy Birthday.

 

[massgun]

Got an e-mail from my club that they will be opening "with new rules to enforce social distancing" on May 6, and boy am I ready for a range trip! I am no longer living in the New England area, so this info doesn't help any of my NES brethren, but you can certainly be happy for me if you like!

 

[zork51]

Got an email from my club, ranges are open and use common sense. Nothing like some good ole common sense!!!