Handguns/Safes and Ammo

[Gilly01]

Hey all, first time poster!

I'm a MA resident (for now) and I've got a few questions about MA gun laws. I apologize in advance if these have been covered, but there's a lot of misinformation out there, and laws are constantly changing. I guess I'll get right to it.

1- Is it legal to store ammunition WITH firearms in your HOME safe?

2- Is it legal to store LOADED magazines WITH firearms in your HOME safe?

3- Is it legal to store LOADED firearms in your HOME safe?

4- Is it legal to store/transport an unloaded handgun WITH loaded magazines TOGETHER in a VEHICLE? (In an approved, locked container)

5- Does a console safe (for a vehicle) qualify as an approved, locked container for transport/storage?

Looking forward to hearing your responses. TIA

 

[facecrime]

Nice try Maura

 

[Len-2A Training]

Welcome.

1-4 Yes
4 - The locked container need not be "approved", just a locked container.
5 - is questionable. Some are designed such that LEOs would say OK. Others may or may not get a pass, based on design. Glove boxes and consoles are a gray area at this point in time.

 

[AHM]

Massachusetts residents 15 years and older who wish to possess, carry, and transport firearms, ammunition, and feeding devices are required to have a firearms license.

So youts and tweens are good to go, like with fishing licenses?

Who needs a freshwater fishing license?

Before you cast your line, you need to get a fishing license if you’re age 15 or older.

www.mass.gov

NES delivers!

ETA: Sounds like Civil Service Stupid Fish and Game Pamphlet Author got his webmaster certification.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Hey all, first time poster!

I'm a MA resident (for now) and I've got a few questions about MA gun laws. I apologize in advance if these have been covered, but there's a lot of misinformation out there, and laws are constantly changing. I guess I'll get right to it.

1- Is it legal to store ammunition WITH firearms in your HOME safe?

2- Is it legal to store LOADED magazines WITH firearms in your HOME safe?

3- Is it legal to store LOADED firearms in your HOME safe?

4- Is it legal to store/transport an unloaded handgun WITH loaded magazines TOGETHER in a VEHICLE? (In an approved, locked container)

5- Does a console safe (for a vehicle) qualify as an approved, locked container for transport/storage?

Looking forward to hearing your responses. TIA

How about reading the laws? Jack.

 

[Ranger007]

Hey all, first time poster!

I'm a MA resident (for now) and I've got a few questions about MA gun laws. I apologize in advance if these have been covered, but there's a lot of misinformation out there, and laws are constantly changing. I guess I'll get right to it.

1- Is it legal to store ammunition WITH firearms in your HOME safe?

2- Is it legal to store LOADED magazines WITH firearms in your HOME safe?

3- Is it legal to store LOADED firearms in your HOME safe?

4- Is it legal to store/transport an unloaded handgun WITH loaded magazines TOGETHER in a VEHICLE? (In an approved, locked container)

5- Does a console safe (for a vehicle) qualify as an approved, locked container for transport/storage?

Looking forward to hearing your responses. TIA

Gilly welcome to NES. You need to develope some thick skin as some here will poke and jab at you and forget that they were once new and asking questions.

What Len-2A said.

 

[AHM]

How about reading the laws? Jack.

 

[Gilly01]

Welcome.

1-4 Yes
4 - The locked container need not be "approved", just a locked container.
5 - is questionable. Some are designed such that LEOs would say OK. Others may or may not get a pass, based on design. Glove boxes and consoles are a gray area at this point in time.

Thanks for the feedback, good to hear!

I was mainly asking questions 1-4 because of what I was hearing from one of my neighbors. He's an older gentleman with a lot of knowledge, with whom I have a lot of respect for. He said he is subscribed to USCCA and was telling me 1-4 were not legal, with the exception of being able to have one loaded (carry/self defense) firearm in your safe. Sounded like a bunch of nonsense to me, but he went ahead and stored his ammo in a separate container in his house.

The question about the center console safe came into play recently when I got a new job. It's a government site, and no one is approved to carry a firearm. I wanted to be able to carry to work, and safely be able to lock my firearm away. I bought a center console safe for my pickup truck and customized it to fit. I welded and bolted it into my center consoles frame, so it's super strong. I trust it 1000 times more than using a plastic/metal gun case.

 

[Gilly01]

Lol sounds about as much fun as reading a dictionary!

 

[Matt_SERE]

It's a government site, and no one is approved to carry a firearm. I wanted to be able to carry to work, and safely be able to lock my firearm away.

Welcome.

Who owns the parking lot? Serious question.

 

[Gilly01]

Gilly welcome to NES. You need to develope some thick skin as some here will poke and jab at you and forget that they were once new and asking questions.

What Len-2A said.

Thanks bud,
Nothing I ain't used to. Been this way since forum websites were created.

 

[Gilly01]

Gilly welcome to NES. You need to develope some thick skin as some here will poke and jab at you and forget that they were once new and asking questions.

What Len-2A said.

Thanks bud,
Nothing I ain't used to. Been this way since forum websites were

Welcome.

Who owns the parking lot? Serious question.

I know what you're getting at...

 

[Matt_SERE]

Thanks bud,
Nothing I ain't used to. Been this way since forum websites were

I know what you're getting at...

So didn't the guy who locked his gun in the glove box and was fired for carrying on property. Big thread here. I'll look for it later...

The case name, or close enough, popped into my brain.

Digest this if you can. Matt

COMMONWEALTH vs. Amaury REYES.

Conviction on carrying charge reversed, and conviction on improper storage remanded for new trial "A contextual reading of these statutory provisions, focused particularly on firearms in motor vehicles, leads us to conclude that the Legislature did not consider a locked motor vehicle itself to...

www.northeastshooters.com

 

[Gilly01]

So didn't the guy who locked his gun in the glove box and was fired for carrying on property. Big thread here. I'll look for it later...

The case name, or close enough, popped into my brain.

Digest this if you can. Matt

COMMONWEALTH vs. Amaury REYES.

Conviction on carrying charge reversed, and conviction on improper storage remanded for new trial "A contextual reading of these statutory provisions, focused particularly on firearms in motor vehicles, leads us to conclude that the Legislature did not consider a locked motor vehicle itself to...

www.northeastshooters.com

Thanks for the read, that covered a lot. Seems like the defendant may have been better off refusing to let the officers search his vehicle.. depending on the repercussions. It would also seem that someone must have watched/reported him going back into his vehicle to store his firearm.

Makes me feel a lot better about how I've stored my firearm when I go into work, a store, Federal building (post office), etc.

I remove the magazine from my firearm (chamber cleared) and place both into my console safe and lock it up.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Welcome.

Who owns the parking lot? Serious question.

If a USPO or other Fed Gov't property, it's illegal to POSSESS any guns on their property. So even if locked up, it is a federal offense.

 

[AHM]

I was mainly asking questions 1-4 because of what I was hearing from one of my neighbors. He's an older gentleman with a lot of knowledge, with whom I have a lot of respect for.

<= Rude Grandpa Simpson joke at your neighbor's expense, in NES Heiroglyphics.

Tell him you want someone to accompany you to attend one of @Len-2A Training's
seminars on Mass Gun Laws By and For Non-Lawyers.

Just bring some Visine or Froglube or something,
because your neighbor's really going to get his eyes opened wide.

The question about the center console safe came into play recently when ... I wanted to be able to carry to work, and safely be able to lock my firearm away. I bought a center console safe for my pickup truck and ... welded and bolted it into my center consoles frame, so it's super strong. I trust it 1000 times more than using a plastic/metal gun case.

The question you have to ask yourself is how much you trust the security guard or town cop
who is demanding you open the safe because someone at work spotted a decal on the truck
or the latest issue of American Rifleman sitting in your office
or you grimace in public if Kyle Rittenhouse gets convicted or something.

Lol sounds about as much fun as reading a dictionary!

I'm in the "M"'s so far. Wish me luck.

 

[Mtn_Guy]

Paging @Rockrivr1 …official Newb greeter

Got another one for ya buddy

 

[kalash]

Thanks for the feedback, good to hear!

I was mainly asking questions 1-4 because of what I was hearing from one of my neighbors. He's an older gentleman with a lot of knowledge, with whom I have a lot of respect for. He said he is subscribed to USCCA and was telling me 1-4 were not legal, with the exception of being able to have one loaded (carry/self defense) firearm in your safe. Sounded like a bunch of nonsense to me, but he went ahead and stored his ammo in a separate container in his house.

The question about the center console safe came into play recently when I got a new job. It's a government site, and no one is approved to carry a firearm. I wanted to be able to carry to work, and safely be able to lock my firearm away. I bought a center console safe for my pickup truck and customized it to fit. I welded and bolted it into my center consoles frame, so it's super strong. I trust it 1000 times more than using a plastic/metal gun case.

People believe all sorts of nonsense. What you should do is read the actual laws - don't just take ANYBODY'S word for it. Your neighbor sounds like a cranky old fudd, stop talking to that geezer.

As mentioned above, if you work on federal property, guns are a no-no, period. Not even unloaded and in a safe in your car. Depending on where you work, they might have the authority to randomly stop and search cars. Proceed as you wish.

 

[Gilly01]

If a USPO or other Fed Gov't property, it's illegal to POSSESS any guns on their property. So even if locked up, it is a federal offense.

The building and property itself are NOT Fed/Gov owned, it is private. The majority of contents on site however.. different story. I may have to dig into this a bit further.

[Just bring some Visine or Froglube or something,
because your neighbor's really going to get his eyes opened wide.

The question you have to ask yourself is how much you trust the security guard or town cop
who is demanding you open the safe because someone at work spotted a decal on the truck
or the latest issue of American Rifleman sitting in your office
or you grimace in public if Kyle Rittenhouse gets convicted or something.

I'm in the "M"'s so far. Wish me luck.

Froglube I'm still not sure why he's taking whatever he read at face value, he's been carrying for 50+ years.

Am I wrong to assume that the scenario you presented couldn't happen in any public/private parking lot? In this era of the crybaby, all it takes is one person to whine or complain about anything.

M is pretty good, I made if to F and said F this.

Paging @Rockrivr1 …official Newb greeter

Got another one for ya buddy

Im looking forward to making your acquaintance kind sir.

 

[Gilly01]

People believe all sorts of nonsense. What you should do is read the actual laws - don't just take ANYBODY'S word for it. Your neighbor sounds like a cranky old fudd, stop talking to that geezer.

As mentioned above, if you work on federal property, guns are a no-no, period. Not even unloaded and in a safe in your car. Depending on where you work, they might have the authority to randomly stop and search cars. Proceed as you wish.

Actually he is far from a cranky old fudd. I'll have to call him that though, I could use a good laugh. He's the best kind of neighbor you could ask for - aside from his firearm laws knowledge! I gotta get him away from those trashy ass magazines.

 

[Mtn_Guy]

The question about the center console safe came into play recently when I got a new job. It's a government site, and no one is approved to carry a firearm. I wanted to be able to carry to work, and safely be able to lock my firearm away. I bought a center console safe for my pickup truck and customized it to fit. I welded and bolted it into my center consoles frame, so it's super strong. I trust it 1000 times more than using a plastic/metal gun case.

As @Len-2A Training and others said, carrying on federal owned/leased property is prohibited. The parking lot for a leased building is part of the building common space, but as part of the lease agreement Fed Gov employees require parking.

You’re probably fine legally, because it is private property as long as the building manager/leasing company doesn’t have any prohibitions, but you’re treading in Gray waters as others have noted.

Thanks for the read, that covered a lot. Seems like the defendant may have been better off refusing to let the officers search his vehicle.. depending on the repercussions. It would also seem that someone must have watched/reported him going back into his vehicle to store his firearm.

Makes me feel a lot better about how I've stored my firearm when I go into work, a store, Federal building (post office), etc.

I remove the magazine from my firearm (chamber cleared) and place both into my console safe and lock it up.

You’re risking an AD/ND (or worse shootings yourself in the leg) every time you load/unload, not to mention a nosy-Karen from seeing you skin that smoke wagon (name that movie… ). Better off to holster the chambered round and leave it as is. If it makes you more comfortable, you can remove the magazine, but unnecessary in my opinion.

Look into taking a firearms law class through GOAL or at MFS or someplace and when in doubt, contact a competent attorney in the relevant jurisdiction. Legal advice off the internet is about as reliable as medical advice, so take it all with a grain of salt unless you’re also willing to self-perform a lobotomy. Best of luck.

 

[Gilly01]

As @Len-2A Training and others said, carrying on federal owned/leased property is prohibited. The parking lot for a leased building is part of the building common space, but as part of the lease agreement Fed Gov employees require parking.

You’re probably fine legally, because it is private property as long as the building manager/leasing company doesn’t have any prohibitions, but you’re treading in Gray waters as others have noted.


You’re risking an AD/ND (or worse shootings yourself in the leg) every time you load/unload, not to mention a nosy-Karen from seeing you skin that smoke wagon (name that movie… ). Better off to holster the chambered round and leave it as is. If it makes you more comfortable, you can remove the magazine, but unnecessary in my opinion.

Look into taking a firearms law class through GOAL or at MFS or someplace and when in doubt, contact a competent attorney in the relevant jurisdiction. Legal advice off the internet is about as reliable as medical advice, so take it all with a grain of salt unless you’re also willing to self-perform a lobotomy. Best of luck.

I agree with everything you have said. I'm going to keep digging into the company policies/regulations. It would seem to be a risk carrying/storing a firearm in a vehicle at any place of employment.

What I've been doing, is clearing the chamber before leaving for work in the morning. So all I do is drop the mag, and place the handgun in the console safe BEFORE getting onto my employers property. I would rather leave it loaded in the holster, but with it not directly on my person I figured that could potentially be even more problematic.

Is a handgun with a loaded magazine, empty chamber, considered loaded? I figured a LEO would.

The movie is Tombstone, and yes I cheated. 1993 - I was less than a year old. Lol

 

[Len-2A Training]

The building and property itself are NOT Fed/Gov owned, it is private. The majority of contents on site however.. different story. I may have to dig into this a bit further.

Froglube I'm still not sure why he's taking whatever he read at face value, he's been carrying for 50+ years.

Am I wrong to assume that the scenario you presented couldn't happen in any public/private parking lot? In this era of the crybaby, all it takes is one person to whine or complain about anything.

M is pretty good, I made if to F and said F this.


Im looking forward to making your acquaintance kind sir.

It doesn't matter who owns the building/property. If a Fed agency leases a property, it is off-limits and illegal. Where I lived in MA, the USPO was leased property, I was friends with the Postmaster who shared that info with me, and thus Fed property for the purposes of convicting someone possessing a gun on that property. In NH, the local USPO is a leased storefront in a shopping mall and therefore the parking lot is OK to possess a gun and only the USPO storefront is illegal.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I agree with everything you have said. I'm going to keep digging into the company policies/regulations. It would seem to be a risk carrying/storing a firearm in a vehicle at any place of employment.

What I've been doing, is clearing the chamber before leaving for work in the morning. So all I do is drop the mag, and place the handgun in the console safe BEFORE getting onto my employers property. I would rather leave it loaded in the holster, but with it not directly on my person I figured that could potentially be even more problematic.

Is a handgun with a loaded magazine, empty chamber, considered loaded? I figured a LEO would.

The movie is Tombstone, and yes I cheated. 1993 - I was less than a year old. Lol

Anywhere is a risk of theft.

There is case-law on the prohibition of storing a gun in the parking lot of a USPO. IIRC it was a CO case and @Rob Boudrie can probably quote the case citation.

As @Len-2A Training and others said, carrying on federal owned/leased property is prohibited. The parking lot for a leased building is part of the building common space, but as part of the lease agreement Fed Gov employees require parking.

You’re probably fine legally, because it is private property as long as the building manager/leasing company doesn’t have any prohibitions, but you’re treading in Gray waters as others have noted.


You’re risking an AD/ND (or worse shootings yourself in the leg) every time you load/unload, not to mention a nosy-Karen from seeing you skin that smoke wagon (name that movie… ). Better off to holster the chambered round and leave it as is. If it makes you more comfortable, you can remove the magazine, but unnecessary in my opinion.

Look into taking a firearms law class through GOAL or at MFS or someplace and when in doubt, contact a competent attorney in the relevant jurisdiction. Legal advice off the internet is about as reliable as medical advice, so take it all with a grain of salt unless you’re also willing to self-perform a lobotomy. Best of luck.

Only legal if the parking lot is "common space", e.g. a shopping mall with a USPO, supermarket, hairdresser, pizza joint, etc. where people park in one spot to visit any one or more businesses. If the parking lot is actually part of the leased space of the USPO/fed business, then parking there with a gun in the car is illegal.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Storing a loaded handgun in a MV is a gray area and most LEOs will arrest and prosecute. Your chance of walking on the charge is 50/50 at best and probably a lot worse in a hell-hole like MA with a marsupial court system.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

As @Len-2A Training and others said, carrying on federal owned/leased property is prohibited. The parking lot for a leased building is part of the building common space, but as part of the lease agreement Fed Gov employees require parking.

You’re probably fine legally, because it is private property as long as the building manager/leasing company doesn’t have any prohibitions, but you’re treading in Gray waters as others have noted.


You’re risking an AD/ND (or worse shootings yourself in the leg) every time you load/unload, not to mention a nosy-Karen from seeing you skin that smoke wagon (name that movie… ). Better off to holster the chambered round and leave it as is. If it makes you more comfortable, you can remove the magazine, but unnecessary in my opinion.

Look into taking a firearms law class through GOAL or at MFS or someplace and when in doubt, contact a competent attorney in the relevant jurisdiction. Legal advice off the internet is about as reliable as medical advice, so take it all with a grain of salt unless you’re also willing to self-perform a lobotomy. Best of luck.

Tombstone.

 

[AHM]

Am I wrong to assume that the scenario you presented couldn't happen in any public/private parking lot? In this era of the crybaby, all it takes is one person to whine or complain about anything.

The difference is that away from work,
you don't get fired by some hoplophobe manager
until they somehow hear you were found not violating any laws
while legally in possession of gunz.

If you're at work,
even if you're totally legal they frog-march you directly to management
and you're fired immediately without even being able to empty out your desk.

M is pretty good, I made if to F and said F this.

You’re risking an AD/ND (or worse shootings yourself in the leg) every time you load/unload, ...

This.

Quit finger-<bleeping> your gun.

... not to mention a nosy-Karen from seeing you skin that smoke wagon ...

From your perspective, it's just as illegal to get caught with a gun on school grounds.
If caught, you'll be convicted and one of the outcome's the same -
lifetime nation-wide ban on gun ownership/use as a Prohibited Person.

Internalize this screed and this screed,
and you will begin to understand how much
you don't want to flounce around in a statutory gun-free zone.

• No unloading the gun.
• No storing the gun.
• No visible hints that a gun exists.
• ...

I agree with everything you have said. I'm going to keep digging into the company policies/regulations. It would seem to be a risk carrying/storing a firearm in a vehicle at any place of employment.

• ...
• No getting seen asking "can I get me some clarity on how close I can skate to the edge of personnel gun policies?" at work.
  • That includes workplace server logs that show your account searching about gun policies, or accessing gun policy documents.

Is a handgun with a loaded magazine, empty chamber, considered loaded? I figured a LEO would.

Cops don't need to know the law.

If they want to arrest you, you're getting arrested no matter what the law says.

You need to worry about what the criminal court thinks.

---

And yes, a gun with boolits inside it is "loaded".

I think in at least one jurisdiction someone has been jacked up
for Having A Loaded Gun when the boolits are next to it
and only reversed their criminal conviction on appeal.
But I can't find the story right now...

 

[Mtn_Guy]

Anywhere is a risk of theft.

There is case-law on the prohibition of storing a gun in the parking lot of a USPO. IIRC it was a CO case and @Rob Boudrie can probably quote the case citation.


Only legal if the parking lot is "common space", e.g. a shopping mall with a USPO, supermarket, hairdresser, pizza joint, etc. where people park in one spot to visit any one or more businesses. If the parking lot is actually part of the leased space of the USPO/fed business, then parking there with a gun in the car is illegal.

100% Agree. I was specifically thinking of a leased federal office in a medical arts building, where the common parking lot was shared space with other offices. Additionally, the parking lot adjoined other businesses — in that instance, parking in the shared lot adjacent to another office (non-Fed Gov) so grey area was more white than black?

 

[MisterHappy]

For TRANSPORTATION (meaning not on your person) a firearm which has a magazine that contains ammo in it, is considered to be loaded.

 

[AHM]

For TRANSPORTATION (meaning not on your person) a firearm which has a magazine that contains ammo in it, is considered to be loaded.

And what is a firearm containing a magazine containing ammo considered
in any other context whatsoever?