Healey "closing the loophole" letter to gun dealers

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I am out here in the People's Republic of San Francisco, in Kommifornia, just read through 351 pages of posts, and have to say that I am honestly not sure how this can stand.

The Attorney General has grossly overstepped her authority and is deciding that 22 years of precedent, based on the official written opinions of the ATF, are no longer lawful.

The Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts states in Article X. "Each individual of the society has a right to be protected by it in the enjoyment of his life, liberty and property, according to standing laws. He is obliged, consequently, to contribute his share to the expense of this protection; to give his personal service, or an equivalent, when necessary: but no part of the property of any individual can, with justice, be taken from him, or applied to public uses, without his own consent, or that of the representative body of the people. In fine, the people of this commonwealth are not controllable by any other laws than those to which their constitutional representative body have given their consent. And whenever the public exigencies require that the property of any individual should be appropriated to public uses, he shall receive a reasonable compensation therefor."

As the owner of several once lawful, now unlawful firearms, this represents a violation of my property rights by executive fiat without compensation.

Furthermore, Article XI states "Every subject of the commonwealth ought to find a certain remedy, by having recourse to the laws, for all injuries or wrongs which he may receive in his person, property, or character. He ought to obtain right and justice freely, and without being obliged to purchase it; completely, and without any denial; promptly, and without delay; conformably to the laws"

I had no opportunity to seek recourse thus far, this sweeping change was brought in secret, without the benefit of debate or hearings, and reeks of politically motivated grandstanding.

Article XVII states that "The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it."
If I have this right, how can the Attorney General strip it bare with a stroke of the pen, based on her feelings, especially since there are so few crimes of violence committed with these very weapons she seeks to ban here in The Commonwealth?

Finally, Article XXIV says "Laws made to punish for actions done before the existence of such laws, and which have not been declared crimes by preceding laws, are unjust, oppressive, and inconsistent with the fundamental principles of a free government."

Clearly, AG Healy has re-written the law, making thousands of otherwise Law Abiding Massachusetts residents unindicted felons overnight. We were assured that by having less than the limit of cosmetic features which defined a so called "assault weapon", we were in full legal compliance. This was the position of the apolitical ATF technical division for more than 22 years. This was just reversed retroactively by the AG, turning tens of thousands of people into potential felons., despite no proven authority for her to do so.

I have nothing nice to say at this point, so I am going to leave my hotel and drink as much bourbon as my expense account can handle.
 
Is that in her official online guidance/interpretation somewhere online? The thing that I saw clearly states that the "Guidance" does not apply to guns obtained pre 7/20.

Thats how this works dude. If her interpretation is that all X firearms are violative of the AWB, it is ONLY her discretion stopping prosecution going forward.

I was hoping to get some time today (I didn't) to read up on Ex post facto law making. That said, I'm pretty sure that only applies traditionally to new regulations and statutes. I don't think interpretation is barred from being more stringent looking back (if the previous AGs were "lazy") Hopefully I am wrong. Fortunately, as was mentioned, since she said the 7/20 thing you are probably shielded, or at least protected in the event of prosecution looking back. Going forward, she can use her decree to go after all the banned rifles she said initially she wouldn't focus on.

Mike
 
I don't really know any of you guys and I really don't care. I have been a lurker forever and a green member for a little. I have never been to a protest/rally, I don't go to town hall and voice my opinion. Maybe I just don't really like people in general.
And it pisses me off how livid I actually am over this.
I will be down there tomorrow standing with the people that believe how I believe. I may not know anyone, but it won't matter.
Our voices will be heard.
Molon Labe Brothers.


Better to wait until Saturday, when everyone else is there.
 
You missed the important words "at this time" and "for now" she can change that at anytime.

None of this is "law" dude, this is interpretation of the law. The ONLY THING the statute protects is pre 9/1994, or the "real" preban guns. She's saying essentially that it hasnt been properly enforced in MA since 2004, but that shes gonna give people a pass... for now. That is not binding. I can't believe we didn't see this coming.

Mike
 
None of this is "law" dude, this is interpretation of the law. The ONLY THING the statute protects is pre 9/1994, or the "real" preban guns. She's saying essentially that it hasnt been properly enforced in MA since 2004, but that shes gonna give people a pass... for now. That is not binding. I can't believe we didn't see this coming.

Mike

We didn't see this coming because it is illegal on so many levels...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
Thats how this works dude. If her interpretation is that all X firearms are violative of the AWB, it is ONLY her discretion stopping prosecution going forward.

I was hoping to get some time today (I didn't) to read up on Ex post facto law making. That said, I'm pretty sure that only applies traditionally to new regulations and statutes. I don't think interpretation is barred from being more stringent looking back (if the previous AGs were "lazy") Hopefully I am wrong. Fortunately, as was mentioned, since she said the 7/20 thing you are probably shielded, or at least protected in the event of prosecution looking back. Going forward, she can use her decree to go after all the banned rifles she said initially she wouldn't focus on.

Mike

I know how this works. That's why I'm bringing it up.

I would wager that she knows things get legally very complicated if she applies the guidance/interpretation retroactively (ex post facto, takings, etc), which is why she specifically included that applicability line but subsequently confused things with her q&a answers that have gone missing somehow. I read and deal with crap like this for a living. None of the language in the guidance was a mistake.

- - - Updated - - -

You missed the important words "at this time" and "for now" she can change that at anytime.

Fine, but as things stand we're not all commiting unprosecuted felonies.
 
I know how this works. That's why I'm bringing it up.

I would wager that she knows things get legally very complicated if she applies the guidance/interpretation retroactively (ex post facto, takings, etc), which is why she specifically included that applicability line but subsequently confused things with her q&a answers that have gone missing somehow. I read and deal with crap like this for a living. None of the language in the guidance was a mistake.

- - - Updated - - -



Fine, but as things stand we're not all commiting unprosecuted felonies.


All been in the works awhile. Obama-style transparency.
 
I'd bet 95% of the sheep and politicians in Thai state are applauding her today. I'm
Not sure we can win in court in the state which means it needs to go to the Supreme Court. I feel so negative and that's normally my outlook but these feels bad and hopeless
 
http://www.mass.gov/ago/public-safety/awbe.html

Read the part at the bottom aimed at individual gun owners. She's saying that everything above (the guidance) doesn't apply to guns obtained pre-7/20.

I'm specifically looking for an answer to the question of have we all committed and are we all still committing felonies.

She said exactly that in her press conference, which is available online. (Except the Q&A period after, which had a lot of "at this time" language.)

Anyway:
The AG said:
Let me be clear: these weapons are illegal.

....

We recognize that most residents who purchased these guns in the past believed they were doing so legally, so this directive will not apply guns bought or sold before today.

So we're all in possession of illegal guns, she's just not going to prosecute at this time.
 
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Heard back from my Rep today. Honestly this is more promising than I was expecting

Dear Mr. [REDACTED]:

Thank you for your email.

I am not aware of this ban and will look into this.

Sincerely,


Rep. Paul J. Donato
35th Middlesex District​

honestly some of these dudes have to be bent at the end-around she pulled.

It doesn't seem she informed anyone in the legislature, I guess she figured if word got out, there would have been a weeks long run on guns rather than one shopping day.
 
My reps aid snapped when I called for the 2nd time today. Some of the reps from the committee who listened to our testimony and ultimately recommended this stuff doesn't proceed have been very supportive/receptive and have invited me to call and speak with them personally even though I'm not in their district. This is promising. That said, she purposely has made this very very public so that political will will prevent it from being overturned outside of the courts.

Mike
 
Thats how this works dude. If her interpretation is that all X firearms are violative of the AWB, it is ONLY her discretion stopping prosecution going forward.

I was hoping to get some time today (I didn't) to read up on Ex post facto law making. That said, I'm pretty sure that only applies traditionally to new regulations and statutes. I don't think interpretation is barred from being more stringent looking back (if the previous AGs were "lazy") Hopefully I am wrong. Fortunately, as was mentioned, since she said the 7/20 thing you are probably shielded, or at least protected in the event of prosecution looking back. Going forward, she can use her decree to go after all the banned rifles she said initially she wouldn't focus on.

Mike

Mike,

Most precedent would make it very hard for her to actually prosecute someone who legally purchased a gun prior to 7/20. No way would it stick, hence the "I won't do it cause I'm nice" bit. **** you bitch, you're not doing it because you can't, it would get tossed out of court. What it DOES do is potentially open the door to say they're illegal turn em in. She MIGHT be able to pull that off but it opens a can of worms cause of precedent. Given what happened in the recent Draper ruling the courts have gone full retard anti so who the **** knows what they can get away with.
 
So, since it's "legal" now to pull your pins, the AG has actually just increased, by potentially unknown thousands, the number of legal assault weapons in Massachusetts that did not exist yesterday?

I agree with this reasoning, too (I know others don't). Obviously the AG and minions will do what they want here, BUT if you take everything at face value:

- Your neutered ("ban compliant") AR was never legal, it was an AR so it was illegal.
- The AG is a nice girl and has apologized for misleading you, and declared your pre-July 20 2016 AR to be legal to own, just not transfer.
- Therefore you have a protected AR. Adjust the stock all you want and replace the barrel with one with a flash hider.

The magic potion here is her (BS) declaration that your neutered AR was illegal all along anyway.

The result is a giant new allocation of pre-ban-like AWs, the difference being these are non-transferable.

Does AG realize all this? No, but she doesn't care. They're hitting what they can immediately (store sales) and then doing the long-game confiscation (non-transferable).
 
So we're all in possession of illegal guns, she's just not going to prosecute at this time.

This has me thinking so many diabolical thoughts. A Madlib, if I may:

I am a _________ with _________, but I am not going to ________ at this time.
 
Maybe somebody who remembers the details of this better can refresh my memory if I am incorrect.

My understanding is:

- The MA AWB is based directly on the original Federal (national) assault weapons ban
- The Federal AWB did not ban ALL sales of rifles based on the AR or AK (or other named "assault rifle" platforms)
- it only banned their sale if they had the banned features (and I think it was 3 out of 4 or something like that)
- The banned features were : flash hider, adjustable or folding stock, pistol grip, bayonet lug, any mag over 10 rounds (did I miss any?)
- So during the time when the National AWB was in effect, you could still get your hands on a neutered AR or AK across the nation

Am I correct in these details?

So here's why I'm asking:

Because when the AWB went into effect the Federal government, The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, the governments of all 50 states - AND THEIR AG's, gun shops, citizens who bought guns - etc. ........... ALL UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE BAN ENTAILED AND WHAT IT'S DETAILS WERE.

So not only is she saying that MA has mis-interpreted the AWB and what was banned - but she's saying that Federal government and EVERYBODY across the nation at the time the AWB was in effect - did not interpret it correctly.

Somebody show me where I'm out of line here.............

that about sums it up. The ENTIRE NATION misinterpreted it for a decade.

I'm glad Her Clamness is here to protect us.....
 
Mike,

Most precedent would make it very hard for her to actually prosecute someone who legally purchased a gun prior to 7/20. No way would it stick, hence the "I won't do it cause I'm nice" bit. **** you bitch, you're not doing it because you can't, it would get tossed out of court. What it DOES do is potentially open the door to say they're illegal turn em in. She MIGHT be able to pull that off but it opens a can of worms cause of precedent. Given what happened in the recent Draper ruling the courts have gone full retard anti so who the **** knows what they can get away with.

What precedent is that? I'm honestly curious. Turn-over orders have come out with the NY safe act and in CA. She can't prosecute for the purchase and possession that took place BEFORE that date because she's estopped by what she said about 7/20 That said, if she makes an announcement that GOING FORWARD you have X time to get rid of these illegally purchased Assault Weapons or she'll prosecute, I don't see why she's prevented from doing that.

Mike
 
bullshit it's most certainly is ! they did 2 interviews with channel 5 . that f-tard explained how the dif between the real AR's and the mass ones were only cosmetic !!! this to chan 5 ! this and Maura's explaining how this couldn't happen in Mass because of our AWB ban but then shown the MFS shot and you could see the look in her eye when she realized OMG !!!!

then that sat am show where deleo was shown the video of the other interview w/ MFS and says "hmmm , i've got to look into this " .

They had EVERYthing to do with this !!!!!

Dude, her minions are all over this forum for sure so they already knew that shit.

Stop eating our own for crying out load.
 
Sent yet another letter to Rogers and Timilty

Since the AG has stated that all the people who bought most semi-automatics since 1994 are in possession of illegal guns, we have been raising a bunch of questions.

We are being told my our gun clubs to not travel to the range with these guns or go hunting with them because we would be transporting illegal guns and could face prosecution and imprisonment since even though she isn’t going to go after us, that doesn’t apply to the Police and the DA’s.

This is causing fear in the general population and total confusion. She has also left the door open to change her mind and calling for a gun turn in amnesty followed by confiscation, after all if you have an illegal substance or thing, you need to turn it in, right?

I am surprised I haven’t heard of the Legislature coming out about this end around their power. Or maybe the Legislature told her to go ahead with it? I have heard that some Legislators didn’t know about it, how about you?

I always tried to follow all the laws of the state and federal government, but now I find myself an unedited felon in possession of illegal guns. Finally the way this law is being interpreted, all semi-auto rifles and pistols, not just so called assault weapons, are banned.
 
Damn it! I was just looking into getting my first M&P a couple weeks ago [angry][angry][angry]

Can we make a sticky with protest announcements dates and time and what not?

Disregard, I see it already exists. I'm too worked up!
 
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What precedent is that? I'm honestly curious. Turn-over orders have come out with the NY safe act and in CA. She can't prosecute for the purchase and possession that took place BEFORE that date because she's estopped by what she said about 7/20 That said, if she makes an announcement that GOING FORWARD you have X time to get rid of these illegally purchased Assault Weapons or she'll prosecute, I don't see why she's prevented from doing that.

Mike
That's the thought that keeps me nervous as hell, next time some lunatic or terrorist decides to use a freaking rifle to go on a rampage the deadline will come when all Mass AR/AK owners who have had these in their possession for YEARS and never once even got a F'in parking ticket will be forced to liquidate all their AR's and AK's. This shit is real and it's going to happen mark my words. This latest BS is just a feeling out process with a much higher agenda.
 
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