Hi guys I am new to the forum and had a question about purchasing a smith and wesson M&P. The shop where I am considering getting it from said it comes with three 17rnd magazines. I am wondering if it is legal to sell these with the gun in MA? I spoke to GOAL about it and they said it is illegal to possess hi cap mags made after 2004, so how can this guy sell them with the gun? Thanks for your advice.
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Hi cap mags included?
- Thread starter coldzero
- Start date
FalArAk
NES Member
They are illegal for peon civilians to posess.
As far as what the dealer is legally binded to do or not do,I wouldn't worry about it.Dealers can sell them, xxxxxxx used to sell xxxxxx mags not too long ago.
CYA.The law is against you posessing them,not dealers selling them.
I think the law is mags made after 1994,not 2004.
As far as what the dealer is legally binded to do or not do,I wouldn't worry about it.Dealers can sell them, xxxxxxx used to sell xxxxxx mags not too long ago.
CYA.The law is against you posessing them,not dealers selling them.
I think the law is mags made after 1994,not 2004.
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Actually, the cut-off date is 9/13/1994, to wit:
'No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994 ...' [MGLA c. 140 § 131M (2007)]
Large capacity feeding devices for pistols are those having a capacity of over 10 rounds.
Selling one is a felony under MGLA c. 269 § 10F, unless the buyer is in an exmpt catagory (i.e., police or another FFL).
I wouild steer clear of this guy, or, refuse to accept the large caps and demand 10 rounders. Yeah, it's pathetic, but that's the proclamation from the Ma**h***s on Fleece'em Hill.
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Just to clarify, the dealer is in MA?
I would take this advice and only accept 10 round magazines from the deal. This makes me wonder if you're getting a MA compliant version of it. While it's not illegal for you to have a non-MA compliant version of the gun, it IS very much illegal to possess the high-capacity magazines for it...Steer clear of them, as it is well known that these mags weren't made prior to 9/94.
Mass-diver
NES Member
I suspect I know what place you are talking about.....the triggers on these guns are also not MA legal. Personally, I would not the chance with the hi-cap mags, although I'm sure someone will point out that no one is the state who has a Class-A ever been charged with possesion of hi-cap mags.
As far as the dealer goes, my guess is that they could sell these pistols to out of state people or LEOs.
As far as the dealer goes, my guess is that they could sell these pistols to out of state people or LEOs.
Not exactly. The GUNS sold by a dealer have to be MA compliant (ie. trigger pull). You can do what you want with triggers in your guns once you have possession. You CAN buy the std triggers and have them installed. FYI IANAL.
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MA does NOT recognize the C&R FFL as being an FFL or anything else!
Besides, read the BATFE definition of what a C&R FFL entitles you to? If the hi-cap mags are 50 years old or a "curio" as BATFE defines it, you could make a case in court when you are prosecuted . . . but for modern guns your C&R FFL is useless.
NO, you can NOT possess them legally . . . same felony as carrying the hi-caps!
Some MA Dealers have had the M&Ps for LEO sales for almost a year. I got to handle one in Stoneham almost a year ago. However, the dealers are legally SUPPOSED TO restrict sales to LEOs. If a dealer does otherwise, he's at risk for a $5K fine/gun for selling the gun and the buyer can be screwed with a felony charge for possession of the hi-cap mags.
Bottom line, if some MA Dealer shows you an M&P with hi-caps, with 99.99% certainty, it will not be a MA (civilian) compliant gun, but will be a MA LEO-ONLY gun he's selling (improperly). The risk on the gun is all his . . . the risk on the mags is all yours!
Besides, read the BATFE definition of what a C&R FFL entitles you to? If the hi-cap mags are 50 years old or a "curio" as BATFE defines it, you could make a case in court when you are prosecuted . . . but for modern guns your C&R FFL is useless.
NO, you can NOT possess them legally . . . same felony as carrying the hi-caps!
Some MA Dealers have had the M&Ps for LEO sales for almost a year. I got to handle one in Stoneham almost a year ago. However, the dealers are legally SUPPOSED TO restrict sales to LEOs. If a dealer does otherwise, he's at risk for a $5K fine/gun for selling the gun and the buyer can be screwed with a felony charge for possession of the hi-cap mags.
Bottom line, if some MA Dealer shows you an M&P with hi-caps, with 99.99% certainty, it will not be a MA (civilian) compliant gun, but will be a MA LEO-ONLY gun he's selling (improperly). The risk on the gun is all his . . . the risk on the mags is all yours!
Fooped
Resident HK Guru
+1. I also have a strong idea of whom you're talking about, and be advised that the dealer in question tends to "thumb his nose" at alot of things that could get one into trouble. Buyer beware.
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Fooped, Jack had that gun behind the counter and it was only for sale to LEOs. He wasn't selling them to civilians. He also sells a lot of guns over the Internet to out of state buyers.
I am not in there often, but I have not seen him be flagrant about MGL wrt gun/mag sales.
I am not in there often, but I have not seen him be flagrant about MGL wrt gun/mag sales.
Fooped
Resident HK Guru
Not at all whom I'm referring to Len. Jack is good people. I was referring to the OP's dealer. ![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
The only reason I quoted you was to agree with your explanation of the scenario.
The only reason I quoted you was to agree with your explanation of the scenario.
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OK. Well it didn't hurt to qualify the statement, as I didn't understand who you were referring to.
I understand pretty clearly that a firearm produced after the 1994 date cannot legally be sold - to a civilian - with high cap mags.
The grey area for me is in the whole "mags produced before 1994" area.
For instance - an M1 carbine - where the firearm - and the mags were produced well before 1994 (like 1944) - can I buy - and posess high-cap mags legally?
The Glock I bought a few months ago from a MA dealer cames as a refurb w/h-cap mags - but I can't buy newly produced high cap mags for the Glock - correct? Could I buy more pre1994 high cap mags legally - if I can find some?
The MA dealer I frequent has a box full of the plastic 30 round mags for AR's - can I buy and posess those - even though the AR I might buy was produced post 1994?
Also - if possession of pre1994 produced high cap mags is legal - how does one go about actually proving that the mags were produced pre-1994?
The grey area for me is in the whole "mags produced before 1994" area.
For instance - an M1 carbine - where the firearm - and the mags were produced well before 1994 (like 1944) - can I buy - and posess high-cap mags legally?
The Glock I bought a few months ago from a MA dealer cames as a refurb w/h-cap mags - but I can't buy newly produced high cap mags for the Glock - correct? Could I buy more pre1994 high cap mags legally - if I can find some?
The MA dealer I frequent has a box full of the plastic 30 round mags for AR's - can I buy and posess those - even though the AR I might buy was produced post 1994?
Also - if possession of pre1994 produced high cap mags is legal - how does one go about actually proving that the mags were produced pre-1994?
Most LE wouldn't know a pre-ban from a post-ban mag some mags its hard to tell which are and which are not.
On the M&P seeing they just made it yea you could tell but with glocks you can't tell how old a mag is yes the mags change alittle over the yrs less you have a 3rd gen mag which some my have been made before the ban and some after its hard to know.
There are still alot of dealers online you can get high cap mags for your pistol and all you would have to say is they came with the firearm when you got it, this is a very silly law and REALLY hard to enforce. And if you have a LTC-A you can own a hi cap wpn and mags so you would be fine.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
My question would be who has the burden of proof. The LEO that is charging or attempting to charge you or you when and if you posses mags that were made prior to 09/13/07.
When I say burden of proof I mean of the part highlighted in red below.
When I say burden of proof I mean of the part highlighted in red below.
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Once arrested, you HAVE TO PROVE "YOU DIDN'T DO IT!" It matters not on fine points of law. If you make your case, you walk, if not you get "three hots and a cot"! Either way, it will cost you a lot financially.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
LOL thats very interesting. So what you are saying is the gov has no burden of proof.
I remember hearing something long long ago Innocent until proven guilty.
I guess it was outdated and no longer popular.
I remember hearing something long long ago Innocent until proven guilty.
I guess it was outdated and no longer popular.
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Sam try this:
- Next time you're stopped for speeding, request a hearing.
- When you are asked to present evidence to refute the charge of speeding, just sit there mute and respond that you have nothing to say other than "not guilty".
- Let me know how you make out?
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If the "state" arrests you, they are obligated to prosecute. If they prosecute, they are going to present evidence that you did something wrong.
If you do NOT make a strong case that they are wrong (either thru yourself or your attorney at $$/hour), guess which way the judge/jury is going to rule?
Now again, please tell me where I was wrong in what I stated?
- Next time you're stopped for speeding, request a hearing.
- When you are asked to present evidence to refute the charge of speeding, just sit there mute and respond that you have nothing to say other than "not guilty".
- Let me know how you make out?
------------------
If the "state" arrests you, they are obligated to prosecute. If they prosecute, they are going to present evidence that you did something wrong.
If you do NOT make a strong case that they are wrong (either thru yourself or your attorney at $$/hour), guess which way the judge/jury is going to rule?
Now again, please tell me where I was wrong in what I stated?
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