House GOP Bill To ban Bump Stocks Also Bans Aftermarket Triggers

[RadiCS]

I hate the republican party.. Hopefully this will give rise to the Libertarian Party.

 

[HARRYM]

I hate the republican party.. Hopefully this will give rise to the Libertarian Party.

I am a long standing Libertarian....well...for the most part. The Libertarian Ticket made total fools of themselves in 2016 and having a Liberal anti-gunner on the ticket in Weld was the last straw for me. The 2016 election set back the Libertarian Party decades, perhaps even killed it.

 

[endus]

This, "increase the rate of fire" language everyone is on about is so shitty. I don't even think it serves the desire to ban bump stocks all that well.

 

[endus]

I am a long standing Libertarian....well...for the most part. The Libertarian Ticket made total fools of themselves in 2016 and having a Liberal anti-gunner on the ticket in Weld was the last straw for me. The 2016 election set back the Libertarian Party decades, perhaps even killed it.

Unless they come really strong in 2020 I am done with them as well. I could live with Gary Johnson. I could even live with Weld if he kept his ****ing trap shut. What I can't deal with is Weld going out and undermining the fundamental ideals of the party in every interview he did. That was the last straw for me. His statements were bad enough that they should have pulled him as the candidate, no matter how bad the optics on that would be.

Their flattering Hillary Clinton was also unacceptable. They don't need to trash talk, in fact I don't WANT my party to be another shit talking bunch of nincompoops, but the way they talked about her was unacceptable for a party so diametrically opposed to her views, her corruption, etc.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

This, "increase the rate of fire" language everyone is on about is so shitty. I don't even think it serves the desire to ban bump stocks all that well.

I am optimistically hoping that is an obvious poison pill to cause so much outrage by us that they will clearly have to kill this bill since we are rolling into midterms and everyone knows gun control is a losing issue.

 

[MAGA99]

DOA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ChevyGuy91]

DOA

I just this on faceplant:

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan backed away Wednesday from legislative action to ban “bump stocks,” the device a mass shooter used in Las Vegas earlier this month to create machine-gun-like rapid fire from his legal semiautomatic rifle, killing 58.

Instead, Ryan and many of his fellow House Republicans hope the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) will act administratively to outlaw the devices, which the agency ruled legal in 2010.

“We think the regulatory fix is the smartest, quickest fix, and then, frankly, we’d like to know how it happened in the first place,” Ryan (Wis.) told reporters Wednesday. He did not discuss pursuing legislation to address the issue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...6288544af98_story.html?utm_term=.ed792c62b919

Looks like he is signalling that this is an Obama admin goof.

 

[firestorm]

The goof was in creating the ATF in the first place

Ryan is every bit as much of the problem as dems

"frankly, we’d like to know how it happened in the first place,” Ryan (Wis.) told reporters Wednesday"

I think after a lot of calls and his likely primary challenger coming out against it he is seeing the "Gun control is a losing issue" writing on the wall and now it's time to make it seem like he was never for it.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

I saw the video and agree that the bill sucks but as written it doesnt prohibit/ban after market triggers.

It does not directly implement such a ban, but it would open the door for the ATF to write letters arbitrarily prohibiting aftermarket triggers and/or OEM trigger upgrades. Therein lies the problem.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

ATF is not authorized to do any such thing wrt triggers or other components that do not render the firearm FA

Good luck with that line of thinking.

 

[firestorm]

Like it or not thats the fact

Not within the powers delegated to them to do

It up there with the shenanigans they tried to pull with green tip ammo......

Right, but if they decided to try banning triggers they might get away with it, especially if it is a double whammy along with banning bump stocks that seemingly everyone is on board with right now. We could fight it in court, and 10 years from now maybe the Supreme court decides that it was an overstep and reverses it, but until then it would stand.

 

[costac]

Keep the atf approval letter in the range bag.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm keeping my Tac Con.

Keep the atf approval letter in the range bag.

 

[soloman02]

This, "increase the rate of fire" language everyone is on about is so shitty. I don't even think it serves the desire to ban bump stocks all that well.

Of course not. It is designed as weasel words to allow a hostile administration to use the ATF to ban various swaths of firearms.

I just this on faceplant:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...6288544af98_story.html?utm_term=.ed792c62b919

Looks like he is signalling that this is an Obama admin goof.

Except that the ATF literally followed the letter of the law in this case. Instead of twisting the law to fit what they wanted, they applied it as it plainly reads in the USC. Asking them to do the opposite (twist the law) is equally as egregious as the bill that was filed.

Like it or not thats the fact

Not within the powers delegated to them to do

It up there with the shenanigans they tried to pull with green tip ammo......

If the language in this bill becomes law the ATF is very much within its power to ban things. The changes made to the law in this bill would literally give them the power to do so.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Except that the ATF literally followed the letter of the law in this case. Instead of twisting the law to fit what they wanted, they applied it as it plainly reads in the USC. Asking them to do the opposite (twist the law) is equally as egregious as the bill that was filed.

You and I know that, but cheap political victories are won from passing blame and the mush heads saying "ooohhhhhhh..."

 

[soloman02]

But now we're back to the language of the bill

DESIGNED AND FUNCTIONS to do x,y,z

That language is not going to allow them to ban aftermarket triggers that are not specifically DESIGNED as well as FUNCTION to do that.

IE no ban on aftermarket triggers

At this point aftermarket triggers are the least of concern. Many others (like Tim of MAC) are now of the opinion that this language opens the door to ban all kinds of things (like semi-autos themselves). You agreed with this premise, are you now saying you do not agree with this?

 

[Asaltweapon]

I hate the republican party.. Hopefully this will give rise to the Libertarian Party.

This latest pile of horse crap might be the one that pushes me over the edge and make me a L

 

[Uzi2]

Keep the atf approval letter in the range bag.

- - - Updated - - -



Keep the atf approval letter in the range bag.

Ok, I'll say it once again.....The ATF didn't approve ANYTHING with regard to Slidefire or Bumpfire Stocks... The stock/s were submitted for evaluation and the ATF couldn't find any basis to regulate them therefore there was no approval. They are an unregulated piece of plastic.
The stocks were legal when submitted, and just as legal after the ATF looked at them.


Making forms 1, Transfer forms 3, 4, 5, 10, Interstate travel forms, importation forms, DD forms, all have "approved" and signature blocks because they are actionable forms that require approval or denial by the ATF.

The letters included with slidefire and bumpfire stocks are merely correspondence stating that the ATF received the described sample, definitions of machinegun, and defines the testing of the submitted product. There is no approval for anything as it didn't meet any criteria that needed approval.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Keep the atf approval letter in the range bag.

- - - Updated - - -



Keep the atf approval letter in the range bag.

It already is in the rifle case under the foam.

 

[Boris]

Ok, I'll say it once again.....The ATF didn't approve ANYTHING with regard to Slidefire or Bumpfire Stocks... The stock/s were submitted for evaluation and the ATF couldn't find any basis to regulate them therefore there was no approval. They are an unregulated piece of plastic.
The stocks were legal when submitted, and just as legal after the ATF looked at them.

this^

"ATF provides guidance to the industry and evaluates and classifies items submitted as either being a firearm, an NFA [National Firearms Act] firearm, or not subject to the jurisdiction of ATF."

ATF "approval" letter is not even a real interpretation, it's a "due diligence" as manufacturer is still liable to be ****ed by ATF. It's kind of like Police is not legally obligated to protect or serve your ass while being "heroes"

of course unlike the shoe string, bumpfire was never interpreted to be an MG ... like mAss like it to be

 

[TLB]

Ok, I'll say it once again.....The ATF didn't approve ANYTHING with regard to Slidefire or Bumpfire Stocks... The stock/s were submitted for evaluation and the ATF couldn't find any basis to regulate them therefore there was no approval. They are an unregulated piece of plastic.
The stocks were legal when submitted, and just as legal after the ATF looked at them.

NRA is looking a little smarter, aren't they?
Let's see the ATF regulate bump stocks. Same effect can be had with pieces of wood, belt loops, fingers, and Sharpies.

I don't like Paul Ryan, but he has handled this perfectly so far.

 

[MGnoob]

Letting the atf decide to regulate these stocks isnt right, there is no law banning them and they arent machineguns..if the atf decides they arent legal that is incredibly dangerious.. it is lawmakers job to make law....which is against the 2nd amendment.

This federal law as better worded than the MA purposed law...the MA law could be interpreted to ban many actual machineguns legally possessed in MA..also as we know our AG loves to used vaguely worded law to mean something other than intended

 

[TLB]

NRA handled this very poorly...no surprise....its a pattern where they open the door for anti's to say "See!!! even the NRA doesnt oppose x,y,z"

Could have accomplished a lot more by simply keeping their mouths shut

Re Ryan....you didnt read Ryan's comments on this obviously

Ryan didnt "handle" this....he chucked it over the fence in the hope that it woudnt become an election issue for him

"Handling" it would have meant either burying it and other nonsense proposals in his drawer or actually speaking out and stating why this is a bad idea that wont accomplish anything

If you want examples of "Handling" things unfortunately you need to look to mental cases Pelosi and Reid.....they're truly mental cases but they actually handle shit they dont want and bury it in a manner that no one, even the opposition tries to push it

Politics is never that straight forward. Public statements do not match what is said behind closed doors. I don't think the ATF is going to do anything, but we'll see.

 

[costac]

Ok, I'll say it once again.....The ATF didn't approve ANYTHING with regard to Slidefire or Bumpfire Stocks... The stock/s were submitted for evaluation and the ATF couldn't find any basis to regulate them therefore there was no approval. They are an unregulated piece of plastic.
The stocks were legal when submitted, and just as legal after the ATF looked at them.


Making forms 1, Transfer forms 3, 4, 5, 10, Interstate travel forms, importation forms, DD forms, all have "approved" and signature blocks because they are actionable forms that require approval or denial by the ATF.

The letters included with slidefire and bumpfire stocks are merely correspondence stating that the ATF received the described sample, definitions of machinegun, and defines the testing of the submitted product. There is no approval for anything as it didn't meet any criteria that needed approval.

Did you happen to read the post referencing the tac con? My post is regarding the letter provided to tac con owners from the atf since triggers are being questioned (possibly). The other aftermarket ones I have owned do not come with anything, at least it's something to waive in the fudds face. I have had issues in the past dealing with fudds not understanding how the trigger can work at my club. I can only imagine what the future holds.......

 

[costac]

there are a bunch of clubs that have recently banned these stocks....even in NH

Its a trigger not a stock. But who knows these could be next.

 

[Uzi2]

Did you happen to read the post referencing the tac con? My post is regarding the letter provided to tac con owners from the atf since triggers are being questioned (possibly). The other aftermarket ones I have owned do not come with anything, at least it's something to waive in the fudds face. I have had issues in the past dealing with fudds not understanding how the trigger can work at my club. I can only imagine what the future holds.......

I did not see your post regarding those triggers. I was strictly referring to the slide and bumpfire stock letters.

 

[second]

When are they gona ban fingers?

 

[Waher]

The MA bill brought to you by our notoriously Liberal legislature:

SECTION X: Section 121 of Chapter 140 of the general laws as appearing in the 2016 official edition, is hereby amended in line 100 by inserting after the words “submachine gun” the following:-
“The term machine gun shall include bump stocks and trigger cranks.”
SECTION Y. Section 121 of chapter 140 of the general laws as appearing in the 2016 official edition, is hereby amended in line 100 by inserting the following new definitions:-
“Bump stock” any device for a semiautomatic firearm that increases the rate of fire achievable with such firearm by using energy from the recoil of the firearm to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger.
“Trigger Crank” any device to be attached to a semi-automatic firearm that repeatedly activates the trigger of the firearm through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion, but does not include any firearm initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever.
SECTION Z. The executive office of public safety and security shall notify any individual licensed under chapter 140 of changes made under section X and the effective date of those changes. The executive office shall also notify manufacturers of bump stocks and trigger cranks of changes made under section X and the effective date of those changes.
SECTION XX. Section X shall take effect 90 days after the passage of this act; but it shall be unlawful to purchase, sell, or offer for sale a bump stock or trigger crank in violation of chapter 140 of the General Laws after the effective date of this act.

The Federal equivalent would be moving bump stocks and trigger cranks as defined in the MA bill into the NFA. So WHY THE HELL ARE GOPe SQUISHES pushing bills more ban happy than what MA is about to adopt?

I'd actually support making these novelty stocks/cranks NFA items in exchange for national reciprocity & or the SHARE Act, with the SHARE Act being more likely to pass as part of a 'compromise'.

 

[Uzi2]

Thanks for compromising my rights away.

you're not getting suppressors in MA and national reciprocity isn't that big a deal when you can get about four out of state licenses that cover almost all the states, sans MA, NJ, and NY.
While it might be nice, most people don't really care about national reciprocity, especially when getting it removes something they already have.

 

[Waher]

Uzi2, there's a lot more stuff in the SHARE Act in terms of fixing FoPA, protecting ammo, a bunch of other hunting/public lands use stuff, making steel core available again, getting rid of the "sporting purposes" nonsense. Swapping novelty stocks in for mufflers out of the NFA and getting a whole slew of other goodies is a heavily lopsided trade in our favor.

 

[headednorth]

I am a long standing Libertarian....well...for the most part. The Libertarian Ticket made total fools of themselves in 2016 and having a Liberal anti-gunner on the ticket in Weld was the last straw for me. The 2016 election set back the Libertarian Party decades, perhaps even killed it.

I have to admit to being a long time Republican voter who in recent years has been waking up and feeling like I probably identify more with a Libertarian way of thinking. This last election though... Seemed like a clown show looking to legalize Marijuana and shit on the 2a if that's what it took to get them elected.