Israel to purchase the Army’s M250, but in 7.62x51 instead of 6.8x5.

[whacko]

I am very well aware of what the theory is. And also a bit aware to what extent theory may not correlate with a reality.
None of those are maxim mg that actually can do solid 250 rounds bursts, but some designs are better than others.
And an idea that a heavy mg usage must only be restricted to short occasional bursts is just silly.

I never said "occasional". When your applying suppressive fire the proper technique is 6 to 9 round bursts.....and you can keep doing that repeatedly....and still may need to change the barrel out doing so. But you are able to get sights back on target area between bursts.....and lengthen the amount of time you can apply suppressive fire until a barrel swap is necessary. I don't believe fort Benning, and later fort drum, and later fort Mccoy, and later fort lee, and later fort polk..... trained me improperly. And I trained my guys as I was trained.

And in actual practice in Iraq on a gun truck ....after 6 to 9 from a turret my rounds are not impacting anywhere near where i intended them to when i first pulled the trigger. 6 to 9.....reset sights.....6 to 9. That is the way.

 

[Palladin]

 

[paul73]

I never said "occasional". When your applying suppressive fire the proper technique is 6 to 9 round bursts.....and you can keep doing that repeatedly....and still may need to change the barrel out doing so. But you are able to get sights back on target area between bursts.....and lengthen the amount of time you can apply suppressive fire until a barrel swap is necessary. I don't believe fort Benning, and later fort drum, and later fort Mccoy, and later fort lee, and later fort polk..... trained me improperly. And I trained my guys as I was trained.

And in actual practice in Iraq on a gun truck ....after 6 to 9 from a turret my rounds are not impacting anywhere near where i intended them to when i first pulled the trigger. 6 to 9.....reset sights.....6 to 9. That is the way.

So, they do not teach here how to use tracers and control suppressive fire over top of fortifications?
I can understand that, as trench warfare and techniques are not really anything relevant here.

 

[whacko]

So, they do not teach here how to use tracers and control suppressive fire over top of fortifications?
I can understand that, as trench warfare and techniques are not really anything relevant here.

Tracers are still relevant on a 6 to 9 round burst. You can see where the rounds impact and know from that how to adjust point of aim on the next burst.

 

[Mountain]

LOL that’s one year. Israel is far and away the largest recipient of U.S. Aid, and Biden just signed a deal for $8 billion.

In total for all years, yes- Israel is by far the bigger of the two. In the last couple years? No.

 

[PappyM3]

I am very well aware of what the theory is. And also a bit aware to what extent theory may not correlate with a reality.
None of those are maxim mg that actually can do solid 250 rounds bursts, but some designs are better than others.
And an idea that a heavy mg usage must only be restricted to short occasional bursts is just silly.

Bursts are the most effective, and mostly what US infantry automatic riflemen do. I did see full cyclic during near ambushes in palm groves, but those are short lived. I’ve also used and seen longer bursts when searching and traversing, but that’s what spare barrels are for.

Also, this silencer is a high-flow/low back pressure one. And it’s designed for full auto fire.

It seems like a big nothingburger to complain about. Especially since it has benefits and users can just not run them if so desired.

As for the maxim, are you advocating we lug around water cooled machine guns again?

“I do say ol’ chap, hop on that penny farthing and bring me some more buckets of water. The natives are getting cheeky.”

 

[garandman]

In total for all years, yes- Israel is by far the bigger of the two. In the last couple years? No.

”Whataboutism” Which makes it sound like our aid to Israel is not immense every year.

Last April. $95 billion total package.

“Shortly after the president spoke, the Defense Department released details of a $1 billion security assistance package for Ukraine which includes, among other things, RIM-7 and AIM-9M missiles; Stinger anti-aircraft missiles; tube-launched, optically-tracked, wire-guided, or TOW, missiles; ammunition for the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System; 155 mm and 105 mm artillery shells; and a variety of combat vehicles.

The bill also includes some $14.1 billion for funding to support Israel, Biden said. “

Supplemental Bill Becomes Law, Provides Billions in Aid for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan

President Joe Biden said that the security supplemental — worth about $95 billion — is not just an investment in the security of U.S. partners around the world, but also in U.S. security at home and

www.defense.gov

 

[paul73]

Tracers are still relevant on a 6 to 9 round burst. You can see where the rounds impact and know from that how to adjust point of aim on the next burst.

well, i was trained in something like this, below, so you can see how much it differs from m250. all same core principles, of course, and same mandatory short bursts, but only until it is no longer applicable. and then you hose.
look and find some 10 differences... hauling around this shit was a true bitch, though.

 

[whacko]

Bursts are the most effective, and mostly what US infantry automatic riflemen do. I did see full cyclic during near ambushes in palm groves, but those are short lived. I’ve also used and seen longer bursts when searching and traversing, but that’s what spare barrels are for.

Also, this silencer is a high-flow/low back pressure one. And it’s designed for full auto fire.

It seems like a big nothingburger to complain about. Especially since it has benefits and users can just not run them if so desired.

As for the maxim, are you advocating we lug around water cooled machine guns again?

“I do say ol’ chap, hop on that penny farthing and bring me some more buckets of water. The natives are getting cheeky.”

View attachment 951783

 

[paul73]

Bursts are the most effective, and mostly what US infantry automatic riflemen do. I did see full cyclic during near ambushes in palm groves, but those are short lived. I’ve also used and seen longer bursts when searching and traversing, but that’s what spare barrels are for.

Also, this silencer is a high-flow/low back pressure one. And it’s designed for full auto fire.

It seems like a big nothingburger to complain about. Especially since it has benefits and users can just not run them if so desired.

As for the maxim, are you advocating we lug around water cooled machine guns again?

“I do say ol’ chap, hop on that penny farthing and bring me some more buckets of water. The natives are getting cheeky.”

View attachment 951783

that bicycle on the picture, btw, is quite amazing, i did ride it once and loved it.

as of maxim guns - there is little better made yet, and as soon as training turns into a real war, somehow they are coming back. they use them in ukraine right now.
as nothing compares with a non-stop stream of lead above your head when you need to cover up straight frontal attack on the opposite trench, and the purpose of mg squad is to make sure the enemy is unable even to pop the head out of the trench.

some shit is just made well, and it 'just works'.

 

[garandman]

well, i was trained in something like this, below, so you can see how much it differs from m250. all same core principles, of course, and same mandatory short bursts, but only until it is no longer applicable. and then you hose.
look and find some 10 differences... hauling around this shit was a true bitch, though.
View attachment 951782

Tripod designers: “Hey, how can we make this as difficult to manpack as possible?”

 

[paul73]

Tripod designers: “Hey, how can we make this as difficult to manpack as possible?”

yeah, you really have no idea... especially fun when it is -30 deg out there, to put it all together.
but when bolted down to anything relatively unmovable, it is quite amazing.

 

[garandman]

L

yeah, you really have no idea... especially fun when it is -30 deg out there, to put it all together.
but when bolted down to anything relatively unmovable, it is quite amazing.

Yeah, we got to carry mortar rounds instead!

Not as cold though, nothing below -26° F.

 

[paul73]

L
Yeah, we got to carry mortar rounds instead!

Not as cold though, nothing below -26° F.

the true bitch was the fact that standard uniform had no gloves - only the mittens, for that that winter cold. you cannot put this shit together with mittens on.
so, go figure the rest.

 

[lukewarm_fuzz]

Regardless of the politics the M250 absolutely f***s, in any caliber. You pick it up and the first thing you think is how the hell did they make it so light. Shouldn’t be possible.