Large Capacity Magazine Sale Legality

[gunofthrones]

Well I looked for a way to post a photo from my pc but it looks like the only way is to post one from a url.
Not sure I can get around that but I'll try.

The truth is, you can send whatever you want to MA. Legal or illegal is buyer's problem. If he says it's preban, ship it. No refund!

People are getting cranky when you said you called AG 's office. They won't have a truthful answer for you, they want to ban everything gun related period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GlockJock]

People are getting cranky when you said you called AG 's office. They won't have an truthful answer for you, they want to ban everything gun related period.

And our out-of-control, Constitution-shredding, berserk AG undoubtedly captured his phone #, did a "reverse lookup" on it to discover where it emanated from, and he'll probably wake up next week to his doorbell ringing, a couple of guys on his doorstep wearing jackets emblazoned with the letters "ATF" on the back.... and they'll spend the next five hours having lunch with him as they examine his computers... while eight or nine of their pals destroy every friggin wall, cubby-hole and hiding place in his house looking for evil, contraband g-g-g-GUNS (and any verboten accessories he had intend to flood our precious Fourth Reich with)....
[emoji6]
Just sayin'

 

[FrugalFannie]

Thanks to those who have been helpful as I do sincerely appreciate it... and I've two words for the assclowns... and they're not Merry Christmas. *winks*

oh you will fit right in!

 

[EJFudd]

People are getting cranky when you said you called AG 's office. They won't have a truthful answer for you, they want to ban everything gun related period.

Yep. That was a pretty stupid move no matter how you slice it.

And our out-of-control, Constitution-shredding, berserk AG undoubtedly captured his phone #, did a "reverse lookup" on it to discover where it emanated from, and he'll probably wake up next week to his doorbell ringing, a couple of guys on his doorstep wearing jackets emblazoned with the letters "ATF" on the back.... and they'll spend the next five hours having lunch with him as they examine his computers... while eight or nine of their pals destroy every friggin wall, cubby-hole and hiding place in his house looking for evil, contraband g-g-g-GUNS (and any verboten accessories he had intend to flood our precious Fourth Reich with)....
[emoji6]
Just sayin'

Wouldn't surprise me a bit!

 

[turkeestalker]

Nah... I thought that kind of nonsense only went on in the commie states like Massachusetts.
Funny thing is that in my state a call to the AG's office would typically net an accurate answer without the run around, go figure.

It sucks to be in the situation that you all are in and in no way do I envy you. I didn't create or cause your predicament though, and I'm not going to do anything to further infringe or restrict yours or my own, and I'll jump through any hoop with a phone call that's necessary to insure that I don't.
If that seems stupid to you then you and I have a very different definition of what stupid is, but viva la difference eh?

 

[drgrant]

Nah... I thought that kind of nonsense only went on in the commie states like Massachusetts.
Funny thing is that in my state a call to the AG's office would typically net an accurate answer without the run around, go figure.

It sucks to be in the situation that you all are in and in no way do I envy you. I didn't create or cause your predicament though, and I'm not going to do anything to further infringe or restrict yours or my own, and I'll jump through any hoop with a phone call that's necessary to insure that I don't.
If that seems stupid to you then you and I have a very different definition of what stupid is, but viva la difference eh?

Most of this "perdicament" in this case is something that you've fabricated, out of thin air.

It is also stupid given that if you ship something FOB (free on board) the cargo is no longer your responsibility once it leaves your hands. It's no different than the dude walking into your gun shop in free america and buying these mags off the shelf... you know, the same place where, legally speaking, they're just pieces of metal?

Magazines are not federally controlled items so I'm not sure where you're ginning up this controversy/concern from. If you're not willing to send mags here just throw them in a junk box in your gun store and sell them as cheap, used magazines. Otherwise, whats the point? (this is the only state left where prebans can really be used).


-Mike

 

[M1911]

Only three provided reference to MA general law to support their determination that it would not be legal for me to complete the auction.
Those references directed me to MA General Laws chapter 140, sections 131E and 131M.
When I read those section of chapter 140 it seems to me that I've not been told the truth by the powers that be, or there is some sort of disconnect in interpretation of what the law says.

MA powers that be either misunderstanding MA gun laws or deliberately lying? My shocked face:

Their usual response is:



As others have undoubtedly pointed out, it is perfectly legal for you to sell pre-ban magazines to a MA LTC holder.

 

[turkeestalker]

I'm not sure where you're ginning up this controversy/concern from.

Yet you're the resident of the state that has a 10 round capacity limit on magazines, with a Nazi AG dictating as she sees fit and banning sporting rifles... my fabrication out of thin air... right.

Between the AG's office nor any of it's departments, local law enforcement, state police, and even the ATF, not one individual that I spoke with on the phone mentioned that it was in fact legal to own a magazine with a capacity larger than 10 rounds, imagine that.
Yet it took all of those calls just to get referred to the sections of your state law that should and would allow magazines with a larger capacity. When I read them, I began to realize that something wasn't ringing true in what I was being told so I came here attempting to find clarification. I got as much or more crap as I got clarification and you drgrant are one of the primary holes it's coming from, just sayin.
Massachusetts shows up in a list of states with a magazine capacity restriction when you search, anywhere.... so I don't have any idea where I would be coming up with such a stupid notion, ya got me once again.

 

[snax]

MA powers that be either misunderstanding MA gun laws or deliberately lying? My shocked face:

Their usual response is:



As others have undoubtedly pointed out, it is perfectly legal for you to sell pre-ban magazines to a MA LTC holder.

In a sane world, or in this case, state, most things are legal, unless there is a law specifically stating that they are not legal.
In Massachusetts, it is assumed that everything is illegal, unless there is a law specifically stating that it is legal.
You see it all the time when dealing with many (not all) cops. Their first reaction to whatever you are doing or whatever you are possessing is: That is illegal.
It seems to be that way at the federal level for the most partas well.

 

[bill o]

Yet you're the resident of the state that has a 10 round capacity limit on magazines, with a Nazi AG dictating as she sees fit and banning sporting rifles... my fabrication out of thin air... right.

Between the AG's office nor any of it's departments, local law enforcement, state police, and even the ATF, not one individual that I spoke with on the phone mentioned that it was in fact legal to own a magazine with a capacity larger than 10 rounds, imagine that.
Yet it took all of those calls just to get referred to the sections of your state law that should and would allow magazines with a larger capacity. When I read them, I began to realize that something wasn't ringing true in what I was being told so I came here attempting to find clarification. I got as much or more crap as I got clarification and you drgrant are one of the primary holes it's coming from, just sayin.
Massachusetts shows up in a list of states with a magazine capacity restriction when you search, anywhere.... so I don't have any idea where I would be coming up with such a stupid notion, ya got me once again.

You were given the correct answer within 3 minutes of your OP.

 

[drgrant]

Yet you're the resident of the state that has a 10 round capacity limit on magazines, with a Nazi AG dictating as she sees fit and banning sporting rifles... my fabrication out of thin air... right.

It is your fabrication, you're just buying the FUD that everyone spews about MA. About 10% of it is true, the rest of it is mostly bullshit. I've been buying magazines like the one's you are selling for 10+ years and never had a problem having them shipped year. I've also worked for one of the most risk averse (everything 110% by the book) gun shops in the entire state selling these magazines at shows for a couple of seasons.

However, I did have one stupid ****ing vendor that wouldn't even send me 8 round 1911, mags, but that's because they had this disease that you seem to have... "bweah, I need to crap myself with fear, the customer is in MA!"

Between the AG's office nor any of it's departments, local law enforcement, state police, and even the ATF, not one individual that I spoke with on the phone mentioned that it was in fact legal to own a magazine with a capacity larger than 10 rounds, imagine that.

You shoud know better than to trust any of these entities. Very few states have clean agencies where people actually know their
shit about the actual law... and I've heard the ATF lie or spew BS to dealers about state laws several times.

Yet it took all of those calls just to get referred to the sections of your state law that should and would allow magazines with a larger capacity. When I read them, I began to realize that something wasn't ringing true in what I was being told so I came here attempting to find clarification. I got as much or more crap as I got clarification and you drgrant are one of the primary holes it's coming from, just sayin.
Massachusetts shows up in a list of states with a magazine capacity restriction when you search, anywhere.... so I don't have any idea where I would be coming up with such a stupid notion, ya got me once again.

Walk into any decent gun store in MA and you can buy these (pre ban) mags off the shelf (if you have an LTC A). I'll just leave it at that, it's not really that complicated. Walk into an MA gun show and you'll find buckets of the things for sale. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that PREBAN MAGAZINES ARE LEGAL IN MA for LTC HOLDERS TO BUY AND POSSESS. Full stop.

-Mike

 

[turkeestalker]

Like I said... primary hole. Full stop.
Thanks again to the helpful.

 

[MAJoe]

Nothing he said is incorrect... Sorry we didn't roll out the red carpet?

 

[drgrant]

Like I said... primary hole. Full stop.
Thanks again to the helpful.

I am being helpful. I sold the ****ing things for 2 years at gun shows- for a dealer that was extremely conscious of the laws of this state. I would hope I know what I'm talking about. I was one of the dudes that took the AR magazines apart with a flash light to check for date codes and all that bullshit- so that nobody got jammed up.

If you're looking for some flying saucer with a banner from the AGs office that say IT IS LEGAL then you're not going to find it. If you are looking for something in MGL that SAYS it is legal, you're not going to find it- because nobody actually writes laws that way.

MA law has 2 components WRT LCAFD possession:

-There's a law against unwashed people possessing the > 10 round capacity magazines inside MA. (the LTC A covers this and nulls that out in the case of your buyer. This is why we call the license "Class A - Large Capacity") .
-There's another law which mirrors the old federal AWB that regulates provenance of mags. The specification used in MGL is EXACTLY THE SAME as what the old federal law was. Mags made and possessed by somebody before 9/13/94 are LEGAL.

-Even if you are paranoid of the new AGs bullshit none of the stuff in her edict that came out on 7/20 applies to LCAFDs, whether preban or otherwise. So that issue is completely moot with regards to your buyer and the product he is buying.

If you want to beat the dead horse read C140 S131, It's kind of obvious where the "clearance" is in the law that legalizes possession. GOAL also probably has an AWB faq on their website, as well.

-Mike

 

[slap shot]

Are all arms dealers so sensitive?

jk OP, we live under a tryannical AG and govt here so we tend to be skeptical. I think you got good info so don't take the ribbing personal.

We'd love to not have to deal with this BS too.

 

[kalash]

OP just mail the mags to the buyer and stop wasting time telling us how much you don't like us.

 

[jpm]

Here's the bottom line. If you do not live in Massachusetts or are currently visiting Massachusetts, then Massachusetts laws DO NOT APPLY TO YOU!!

Just as whatever laws apply to you in your state do not apply to us here. It really is no simpler than that. The MA police cannot come knocking on your door for doing something that is legal in your state and legal on a federal level!

Magazines are not regulate by ATF so shipping them here is not against federal law. Nor is it against state law (yours and/or ours).

Can we kill this silly thread now?

 

[Mass-diver]

Here's the bottom line. If you do not live in Massachusetts or are currently visiting Massachusetts, then Massachusetts laws DO NOT APPLY TO YOU!!

Just as whatever laws apply to you in your state do not apply to us here. It really is no simpler than that. The MA police cannot come knocking on your door for doing something that is legal in your state and legal on a federal level!

Magazines are not regulate by ATF so shipping them here is not against federal law. Nor is it against state law (yours and/or ours).

Can we kill this silly thread now?

This x 1,000000000000000000000

 

[TheTrueQuaid]

Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or alarge capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994.

hth.

 

[turkeestalker]

I've said thanks two maybe even three times now attempting to end this.
You guys crack me up!

 

[kevin9]

I've said thanks two maybe even three times now attempting you end this.
You guys crack me up!

Welcome to NES and New England, where having the last word is a blood sport.

 

[In God We Trust]

I've said thanks two maybe even three times now attempting you end this.
You guys crack me up!

As I said in the first reply to your question, it doesn't matter to YOU Whether or not the magazines are legal. Only the buyer can get jammed up. Just mail the things

 

[babygorilla]

Welcome to NES and New England, where having the last word is a blood sport.

In for the last word!

 

[Keven]

I may have to re-read all this again because post # 79 is something I always was concerned about myself.

 

[turkeestalker]

Reading it again won't give you a clear defined answer Keven. I
already know how the law reads, what I don't know is how it's interpreted by those who enforce it.
So far nothing has been offered that actually defines that, at least nothing backed up with documentation that would cover my ass.

There does seem to be a standard or lack of a standard which backs up all of the 'he said' 'she said' and 'I know because' kind of thing, but nothing that explains exactly how the law is specifically interpreted or enforced by law enforcement.
That is what I was looking for but will obviously not get. I don't think that is because of the people on this forum, but because of those writing, interpreting, and enforcing MA laws.
Keeping them vague keeps their power pretty fluid and options open to the whims of their interpretation, which would seem obvious based on the run around I got on the phone with them.

One thing that I find funny is that the consensus seems to be that MA law doesn't apply to me as I'm not a resident myself and there would be no repercussions if in fact I were to violate MA law by importing something restricted by the state, into the state.
Especially if I were to use the USPS as a means to do it, that right there would make it a federal issue I'd guess.
I remember getting a letter from local law enforcement here in Missouri back around 1982 over an issue that arose in Florida. They were threatening to arrest me on behalf of the state of Florida and ship me down there if in fact I did not address that issue before a certain date.
Don't believe for a second that Massachusetts law can't touch me in Missouri if they choose to, that line on the map doesn't mean a damn thing.

Bottom line is that it comes down to what responsibility I am comfortable with assuming regardless of what some guy on some forum says about what is right or wrong.
When I was a kid and my father would say to me, "because I said so", I accepted it.
After all in my world he was more or less like God.
I've not accepted something simply because someone said so from any other individual in my life.
Maybe that's because I'm from what they call the show me state, or maybe it's because my mother didn't raise a fool.

Let's face it, $10 a magazine is a pretty fair price here in MO, and probably a real money making opportunity there in MA, but I wouldn't be the one making the money.

 

[turkeestalker]

Let me clarify that.
My interpretation after reading the pertaining sections of MA law is that so long as the individual receiving the magazines holds a class A license, it should be legal for me to sell and ship them to him.
That is an assumption on my part about what is meant by the word 'possession' as used in the law.
Regardless of what my interpretation is or what I've been told here in this forum, that is not what Massachusetts authorities told me.
I was simply looking for something to actually back that up that was documented.

 

[drgrant]

Reading it again won't give you a clear defined answer Keven. I
already know how the law reads, what I don't know is how it's interpreted by those who enforce it.
So far nothing has been offered that actually defines that, at least nothing backed up with documentation that would cover my ass.

Most gun laws don't have anything like this in ANY state, so not sure what your point is. A few states have firearms enforcement bureaus (like CT's SFLU, but they are a RARE exception! ) but the thing you're looking for largely does not exist. Even the feds can renege on legal determinations at the drop of a hat. There are no iron clad guarantees in this business. Do you call the cops to approve every transaction you make out of your store? Not sure how you can run a business efficiently like that.

Do the world a favor going forward and don't bother selling anything preban on gunbroker, otherwise you're going to waste everyone's time when an MA buyer bids on it and you don't have the spine to ship them the item. If I was the buyer I would be pretty pissed, the ENTIRE point of listing of preban mags is to SEND THEM TO MASS and other restricted states.

(double facepalm).

-Mike

 

[headednorth]

the ENTIRE point of listing of preban mags is to SEND THEM TO MASS and other restricted states.

Hard to argue with this. Theyre only pre ban mags to people in restricted states, to everyone else theyre just shitty old mags. Youre hesitant to ship to the only audience that has any use for them.

 

[kevin9]

Turkeystalker, you're reading of the law is correct. Several points though:
First, it's a basic principle of MA and US law (not withstanding zoning laws) that the law only says what you cannot do, or what you must do, but not what you can or may do.. Several members have said they've bought magazines like yours (preban) in the same way with no negative repercussions for themselves or the seller. It's anecdotal evidence, but the best confirmation you're going to get here.

Second, the MA AWB (until 20 July 2016) mirrored the old federal ban that expired in 2004 in letter and practice. Nothing Healy did on 20 July changed the definition of pre-original-ban ('94) magazines or guns. If the magazines you are selling were in your possession, or you know they were in someone else's possession, prior to expiration of the federal AWB in 2004 then they should be legal preban magazines, assuming you or pre=2004 owners were not LEOs.

Third, the lack of markings also indicates likelihood of pre-ban status. During the federal ban >10 capacity magazines were supposed to be marked for LEO use only. Many, if not all magazines, made after the federal ban seem to have markings now such as the manufacturer, serial numbers, even a manufacture date. It's probably not a rule or law that this must be done, but further evidence that you're good to go with shipping the preban magazines.

Fourth, regarding the incorrect answers you got from the AG Office (AGO). The MA AGO has been anti-gun for decades. Like most (all?) anti-gun organizations they do not know the current laws. MA (currently) does not have magazine registration so authorities have no way of knowing what magazines get sent into MA. The fact that the AGO lied to you means nothing, really; they dissimulate to MA residents all the time, they care even less about being truthful to an out-of-stater.

Finally, if this all is not enough to make you feel comfortable sending the magazines, then don't. My free advice (worth what you're paying for it) is not to announce your decision here, either way. If you say you did send them then there is a small chance the wrong spy might read it and somehow cause you grief, though I think that very unlikely. If you say you didn't send them then all the people here frustrated with the AG's latest shenanigans will tear you a new one for falling for the AG's FUD campaign.

p.s. To attach a picture directly one must be a paid NES member, so-called "green" members for the color of their username. The rest of us freeloading blackies have to use other hosting sites. Also, "blue" members are moderators, "orange/yellow" are dealer members, and red is the NES admin/owner.

 

[jpm]

One thing that I find funny is that the consensus seems to be that MA law doesn't apply to me as I'm not a resident myself and there would be no repercussions if in fact I were to violate MA law by importing something restricted by the state, into the state.
Especially if I were to use the USPS as a means to do it, that right there would make it a federal issue I'd guess.
I remember getting a letter from local law enforcement here in Missouri back around 1982 over an issue that arose in Florida. They were threatening to arrest me on behalf of the state of Florida and ship me down there if in fact I did not address that issue before a certain date.
Don't believe for a second that Massachusetts law can't touch me in Missouri if they choose to, that line on the map doesn't mean a damn thing.

ok so what it comes down to is basic lack of understanding.

1 - YOU are not IMPORTING anything to MA! YOU are in fact EXPORTING something perfectly legal in MO FROM MO. If you in fact lived here and did not have an LTC-A and had them shipped to you, then you would be violating MA law by importing them. The buyer is the one importing them and its been established that he has an LTC-A which means he is able to legally possess them here.

2 - Federal law does not currently regulate magazines!

3 - You were apparently IN FL when you committed the offense to which they had your home LEOs contact you about. You are not IN MA

4 - YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO FIND THE WRITTEN PROOF YOU NEED TO SATISFY YOURSELF THAT ITS OK, SO DON'T SHIP THEM HERE!!!