Leominster Man Puts POS Intruder in ER With Baseball Bat

[Reptile]

Someone posted the Mass. Casle Doctrine in the comments:

Looks cut an dry to me. He could have killed the intruder if the intruder made it inside.

I think that he would have gone to prison anyway just because it's in Mass.

Could be a situation where you could have killed the intruder but would later regret it, instead of ordering him on the ground after firing a warning shot.

I am just playing devils advocate here...

The guy who killed his neighbors intruders, in Texas, said he regretted it.

I think any human would have some degree of PTSD after that.

I wonder if there is any case law on a similar circumstance.

 

[Rcharnitsk]

great this is going to lead to me having to get a license to have a bat.

 

[doobie]

Citizen's arrest - he was breaking into your house!

Once he is running away.... You can call a citizens arrested, but that only helps if he stops. If the BG was bashed in the head in the house before running away.... more power to Salles... but if the BG was running away.... as far as I've been told you can't shoot him... Just like if a BG is in your house carrying your brand new plasma TV away you can't shoot him since he is not threatening you...at least that was how I thought the law in MA was....

 

[Palladin]

We should have a poll for the 'self defense' bat......Wood or Aluminum ?

 

[clinotus]

While celebrating this minor victory, lets not forget the larger issue that this case was the one that broke the camels back:

Curran ordered Hernandez held on $5,000 cash bail and then revoked his bail in three other open cases, including a larceny case, a receiving stolen property case and a possession of a Class E drug case.

Hernandez is scheduled to appear in court Wednesday for a hearing on all of his open cases.

See what I mean? It took three failures of the judicial system just to bring this young man before a judge.

 

[Admin]

While celebrating this minor victory, lets not forget the larger issue that this case was the one that broke the camels back:

See what I mean? It took three failures of the judicial system just to bring this young man before a judge.

Business as usual in the PRM

 

[doobie]

While celebrating this minor victory, lets not forget the larger issue that this case was the one that broke the camels back:

See what I mean? It took three failures of the judicial system just to bring this young man before a judge.

So now he has a 4th chance to screw up with this low ball bail. Doesn't he just pay 10% of the bail then walks?

 

[Jay G]

Huh? When did we turn in to Not So Great Britain? Last I heard, we still can defend ourselves. Now, if this had happened in London, our batter would be in the pokey and the thug would be getting a lawyer to sue him.

Do we need to remind you of the gentleman who was arrested for punching out the scumbag pedophile who groped his son in the supermarket restroom?

This state sucks, Ross. Hate to break it to you.

 

[tele_mark]

We should have a poll for the 'self defense' bat......Wood or Aluminum ?

Group Buy!!!

 

[Admin]

This state sucks, Ross. Hate to break it to you.

He is well aware, however he doesn't like to hear who shitty it is every day.

 

[dwarven1]

Do we need to remind you of the gentleman who was arrested for punching out the scumbag pedophile who groped his son in the supermarket restroom?

Different case, Jay... that dad was in no danger whatever from a 71 year old man. THIS guy, at age 61, WAS in danger from this young punk. FWIW, I'm not sure that the dad did do the right thing - his case would have been much stronger without the punching.

This state sucks, Ross. Hate to break it to you.

Believe me, Jay, I know! I was in VT this weekend and as I saw the MA border approaching I was fighting the urge to turn my bike around - he didn't want to come back, either!

Kind of amusing... there were three Instructors sharing a room. I put my K9 on the bedside table (along with mags and a Surefire E2D), the second instructor put his SW1911 on his side of the table (along with mags and a Surefire E2D), and the THIRD instructor put his 92FS on the dresser next to his cot! After a looong day on the range, we were kind of giggling about what would happen to the idiot who tried to steal one of our trucks or my bike - all parked right outside the room.

He is well aware, however he doesn't like to hear who shitty it is every day.

Yeah, I really don't need my nose rubbed into it... that happens every time I go hunting for the keys to my gun safe. Two adults, no kids... tell me again why I need to lock them up?

 

[Admin]

Yeah, I really don't need my nose rubbed into it... that happens every time I go hunting for the keys to my gun safe. Two adults, no kids... tell me again why I need to lock them up?

Because you live in Communism.

 

[doobie]

Because you live in Communism.

If it was communism the criminals would be in Siberia. And the ones not in Siberia would have to lock up their guns like everyone else.

 

[Adam_MA]

F'ing sad that we even need to be discussing weather or not the guy did the right thing, or if he will be persecuted for it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this god forsaken state is so far gone, it would be in the best interest for the rest of the country, if MA would simply break away, and float back over to England!

 

[Admin]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this god forsaken state is so far gone, it would be in the best interest for the rest of the country, if MA would simply break away, and float back over to England!

I'll get some det. cord.

 

[7.62x39]

Too bad He wasn't swinging for the cheap seats. One less scumbag to worry about.

 

[Adam_MA]

I'll get some det. cord.

It's a plan!

 

[pdm]

If it was communism the criminals would be in Siberia. And the ones not in Siberia would have to lock up their guns like everyone else.

No, the criminals would be running the show and anyone who spoke out would be in Siberia...

...damn.

 

[Jay G]

Different case, Jay... that dad was in no danger whatever from a 71 year old man. THIS guy, at age 61, WAS in danger from this young punk. FWIW, I'm not sure that the dad did do the right thing - his case would have been much stronger without the punching.

Correction: HE wasn't in danger. His son most certainly was, however. And I would argue that a small boy confronted with a pedophile is in a LOT more danger than a 61 year old man confronted with a 20-something goblin.

Believe me, Jay, I know! I was in VT this weekend and as I saw the MA border approaching I was fighting the urge to turn my bike around - he didn't want to come back, either!

Kind of amusing... there were three Instructors sharing a room. I put my K9 on the bedside table (along with mags and a Surefire E2D), the second instructor put his SW1911 on his side of the table (along with mags and a Surefire E2D), and the THIRD instructor put his 92FS on the dresser next to his cot! After a looong day on the range, we were kind of giggling about what would happen to the idiot who tried to steal one of our trucks or my bike - all parked right outside the room.

Yeah, I really don't need my nose rubbed into it... that happens every time I go hunting for the keys to my gun safe. Two adults, no kids... tell me again why I need to lock them up?

I gotcha, man. Didn't mean to sound so harsh (it wasn't intended as such FWIW). Just seemed fitting...

 

[theGringo]

This could make for some for some very interesting congressional testimony, as Schumer et. al. attempt to define which baseball bats meet the "sporting purposes" test.

We may all be left eventually with wiffle ball bats. No "ping", just "whoosh, slap!"

 

[kiver]

Hoping it was one of those banned in little league triple walled aluminum bats....can just innvision the BG screaming "No mas!!!....No mas!!!!"

 

[dwarven1]

I'll get some det. cord.

Just run it along the outside of Rt 128 - there are towns inside 495 that aren't lost causes, and with the 128 circle gone, the voters with brains will outvote the liberals.

Besides... Chris & I live inside 495 (barely) and my favorite theatre is just outside 128... I'd miss NSMT if it was gone.

Correction: HE wasn't in danger. His son most certainly was, however. And I would argue that a small boy confronted with a pedophile is in a LOT more danger than a 61 year old man confronted with a 20-something goblin.

Not once Daddy was alerted and on the job, he wasn't.

 

[jcr]

Speaking through an interpreter, Hernandez ...

Do you suppose he is an "undocumented thief", only robbing homes that Americans don't want to rob?

Hernandez required 13 staples to close the wound,

Gee, I hope he is not one of those without health insurance or the taxpayers would have to ante up for that, too.

 

[Scrivener]

That story may very well change once this person is educated on the concept of contingency fee litigation, and the propensity of insurance companies to pay out on any claim that could actually result in a trial if denied.

Which ones are these - I need to know!

In point of fact, many not only won't pay when liability is shown, they won't pay at trial or even - particularly Allstate - after the jury has retired to consider damages.

The strategy is attrition. Insurance companies have all the time and money they need to drag things out; injured people don't.

A fact to remember the next time some Chamber of Commerce BS about "tort reform" is being spread like manure on a fallow field.

 

[highlander]

So now he has a 4th chance to screw up with this low ball bail. Doesn't he just pay 10% of the bail then walks?

Never have been in jail but the article said $5000 CASH bail I would assume
that means he has to pony up that much cash to get out. I don't know about you guys but I'm in my late 50's and have no wish to be throwing hands with some of the teenagers I've seen of late never mind some 24 year old. Just came from the super market and the kid at the register was a good 6-10" taller than me and had at least 30 lbs on me. Maybe we should take up a collection and get Mr Salles a better bat.

 

[Scrivener]

Do you not have to be in imminent and unavoidable threat of bodily injury or death to use lethal force? What if the old man retreated to his room with his wife and stayed there? Is there a duty to retreat or is a criminal fair game while in your house?

Perhaps if you bestirred yourself to research "Castle Doctine," you'd know. It's been posted here many times.

 

[M1911]

Is there a duty to retreat or is a criminal fair game while in your house?

The General Court of Massachusetts (our legislature) has a handy search page. You might want to try using it now and then:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/mgllink.htm

Searching on the word "retreat" gives two results:

Chapter 278: Section 8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a dwelling; defense

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

Chapter 231: Section 85U. Death or injury to unlawful dwelling occupants; liability of lawful occupants

Section 85U. No person who is a lawful occupant of a dwelling shall be liable in an action for damages for death or injuries to an unlawful occupant of said dwelling resulting from the acts of said lawful occupant; provided, however, that said lawful occupant was in the dwelling at the time of the occurrence and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said lawful dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said lawful occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall not be a duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

So, no, there is no requirement to retreat while inside your home. However, your question was poorly worded -- you implied only two possibilities: 1) you must retreat inside your home or 2) the "criminal [is] fair game."

You don't have to retreat, but based on my unprofessional interpretation of the laws above (IANAL) I would not say that the criminal certainly is "fair game." You may use reasonable force to defend yourself. The amount of force that is "reasonable" is dependent upon the situation.

 

[Blitz1]

Never have been in jail but the article said $5000 CASH bail.

HMMM, now isn't there another thread here with someone looking for $5000.00 quickly?

 

[Scrivener]

It took three failures of the judicial system just to bring this young man before a judge.

Hardly.

How do you think he got bail in the 3 other cases if not by an appearance in court, before a judge?

 

[Sleepytime]

The key word in the article was "Scheduled to appear in court..." I wonder if he was scheduled to appear for the other charges, but somehow missed them on account that they couldn't find him. Since he had to speak through an interpreter I wonder if he is a crimi-grant. Now some POS defence attourney is going to pick up the case and probably find some loop hole in the law to get him off.