Locked rifle container in vehicle question

[MAJoe]

The the law does state ‘locked case or other secure container’, secure being the undefined/ambiguous term and ‘or other’ inferring that term also applies to ‘locked case’.
Somewhere I’ve run across some pretty specific jury instructions that say something along the lines of ‘secure’ means an average person can’t access the contents using typical TOOLS.
Which in practical terms rules out about any typical gun case I can think of, hard, soft or otherwise

https://www.mass.gov/doc/7630-improper-storage-of-a-firearm-gl-c-140-s-131l/download

“Secured adequately to deter all but the most persistent person from gaining access”

Also, read Commonwealth v Reyes:

Commonwealth v. Reyes

Defendant had a license permitting him to carry a firearm for all lawful purposes. After driving to work one day, Defendant attempted to obtain a gun locker key for the storage of his firearm during his work shift, but all the lockers were full. Consequently, Defendant placed his gun in his...

law.justia.com

Statutory and regulatory references to acceptable containers include safes, [FN8] weapon boxes, [FN9] locked cabinets, [FN10] gun cases, [FN11] lock boxes, and locked trunks of vehicles. [FN12] A leading secondary source, Law Enforcement Guide to Firearm Law (20th ed.2012), published by the Municipal Police Institute, Inc., [FN13] states that a securely locked container can include a soft gun case secured with a padlock, "as well as an expensive gun safe," and that even "glass front furniture style gun cabinets are acceptable providing that they are capable of being locked." Id. at 93. [FN14]

In this regard, we agree with the Appeals Court that, as a general proposition, to be secure, "guns [must] be maintained in locked containers in a way that will deter all but the most persistent from gaining access." Commonwealth v. Parzick, supra (door lock that was easily defeatable by using "bobby pin" did not prevent access to unauthorized persons other than owner and therefore was "not secure").

 

[Tartakovsky]

I have a sledgehammer, bolt cutters, cordless grinder, sawzall, rope, and bag of hand tools in my trunk of privilege. I have had a cop ask what all that is for even though a hard hat and hi viz is back there too

Noneyabidness officah

 

[chris_1001]

Don't open your trunk.

Don't ever expect cops know the law. Even if it was very plain and simple.

My car has a Valet lockout. it is electronic and needs a pin to unlock. Disables the trunk key and I can engage it quickly...

 

[Steve600]

Why chance it? Just lock it in a cheap plastic case.

Because I have an old Jeep that a big case would be really hard to fit in.

 

[whatluck]

Tell him you're auditioning for the re-boot of

View attachment 910454

This was a great show. Home Improvement, not tool time. The fact that Tim Taylor is wearing a tie in this 300 lines of resolution photo perfectly sums up both shows.

 

[sig shooter]

Because I have an old Jeep that a big case would be really hard to fit in.

You could find a hard sided case that would allow you to transport it broken down.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I have no authoritative knowledge of this, but. this is how I think it is:

A soft case is mentioned in COMMONWEALTH vs. AMAURY REYES and so can suffice. I don't think the soft case need be made of Kevlar. But if you can defeat the zipper on this particular soft case with a ballpoint pen, then no.

This is the stuff I love.

So in mASS, if you have a burglar who

1. Regularly burgles.
2. Is looking for guns specifically.
3. understands soft cases.
4. Has practiced OPENING soft cases (instead of just using some EMT scissors)

then we should have laws that ensure that these people DON'T get your gun out of your car soft-case.

Of course, if they're breaking into your car, they're just gonna grab the case and run and worry about it later.

It's definitely a "let's figure this out as we go" type of rule. Never actually looking at crime stats or anything.

 

[meh]

It's definitely a "let's figure this out as we go" type of rule. Never actually looking at crime stats or anything.

The safe storage and transport laws make sense if the "unauthorized" person is a fairly young child. Beyond that, and most particularly in the case of an actual burglar, they are as ridiculous as any of the other laws that are each crafted as one of the thousand cuts, not to accomplish anything in particular.

 

[Mase32]

Tell him you're auditioning for the re-boot of

View attachment 910454

Or a village people tribute band.

 

[Bearcat996]

Just to go back to the transport law .
They say to lock in the trunk.
What if you have a SUV (Mazda CX5) how is that law applied? Is locked in the auto the same as a trunk.

 

[42!]

The licensing officer in my town told me that my rifle bag is sufficient as long as I put something as minimal as a luggage lock through the zippers.

Too bad he won't be the one arresting you.

I have a sledgehammer, bolt cutters, cordless grinder, sawzall, rope, and bag of hand tools in my trunk of privilege. I have had a cop ask what all that is for even though a hard hat and hi viz is back there too

Calmly look the cop in the eye and say "Bank robbery?

 

[MAJoe]

Just to go back to the transport law .
They say to lock in the trunk.
What if you have a SUV (Mazda CX5) how is that law applied? Is locked in the auto the same as a trunk.

Can it be accessed from the passenger compartment? If so, doesn’t count.

 

[akma]

When transporting large capacity rifles or shotguns, they must be in a locked container. What you have looks like a locked container to me.

(b) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a license issued pursuant to section 131 or 131F shall possess the large capacity rifle or shotgun in a vehicle unless the large capacity rifle or shotgun is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of the vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

Would a pickup with a hardtop bed cover and locked tailgate be considered a trunk?

 

[Mesatchornug]

The safe storage and transport laws make sense if the "unauthorized" person is a fairly young child. Beyond that, and most particularly in the case of an actual burglar, they are as ridiculous as any of the other laws that are each crafted as one of the thousand cuts, not to accomplish anything in particular.

My understanding is that the law was originally written to prevent access by children. That's why that reading makes sense.

Just to go back to the transport law .
They say to lock in the trunk.
What if you have a SUV (Mazda CX5) how is that law applied? Is locked in the auto the same as a trunk.

That's why it said locked trunk or locked container.

 

[67ray]

Would a pickup with a hardtop bed cover and locked tailgate be considered a trunk?

It might be - depends on the judge right?

Of course, who would know there is anything in a hard covered locked bed? Unless one got Terryed or something

 

[42!]

It might be - depends on the judge right?

Of course, who would know there is anything in a hard covered locked bed? Unless one got Terryed or something

 

[Devils Paintbrush]

My understanding is that the law was originally written to prevent access by children. That's why that reading makes sense.

That's why it said locked trunk or locked container.

Since most Mass legislators think all gun owners shouldn't have firearms anyway, locked firearms will help keep running and gunning from happening on the highways. /s

To them, all firearm owners (children in their eyes) can't resist firing a weapon when transporting it...we need a law.

 

[pastera]

I have a sawzall, and an acetylene torch. I can get into a lot of "cases" with those....

Am I typical, and are the tools?

I don't have an acetylene torch, but I have a plasma cutter, angle grinders, nibblers and various other common tools that will easily cut through sheet stock.

Security in a container is delayed entry not denied entry.

 

[pastera]

This is the stuff I love.

So in mASS, if you have a burglar who

1. Regularly burgles.
2. Is looking for guns specifically.
3. understands soft cases.
4. Has practiced OPENING soft cases (instead of just using some EMT scissors)

then we should have laws that ensure that these people DON'T get your gun out of your car soft-case.

Of course, if they're breaking into your car, they're just gonna grab the case and run and worry about it later.

It's definitely a "let's figure this out as we go" type of rule. Never actually looking at crime stats or anything.

How about having a law that punishes the criminal instead of the victim?

 

[Lank]

They deliberately make It so complicate and non-intuitive that we, and the cops, don't know if we should be arrested.
Gawd, this state in f***ed.

And the usual result it you will be arrested, indicted and have two choices- pay huge fines and go to jail if you go to trial, or plea CWOF.

In both situations you become unsuitable and PP.

 

[akma]

How about having a law that punishes the criminal instead of the victim?

That's the heart of the whole issue right here. None of this is to punish real criminals but to criminalize and disarm law abiding Americans, so they can destroy our nation to make a communist utopia.

 

[Bearcat996]

My understanding is that the law was originally written to prevent access by children. That's why that reading makes sense.

That's why it said locked trunk or locked container.

So a locked range bag in the rear of the SUV would be OK?
Or does the locked range bag need to be inside a metal locked box in the SUV?

 

[drgrant]

Unfortunately this is the truth...........

*groan*

People like to get all histrionic about this but the reality is a vehicle search isn't that common. Think about what has to happen for something to get to that point.

 

[Palladin]

When I had my Impala......12v locking system, button in the trunk. Rifle mounted under the deck

 

[MAJoe]

So a locked range bag in the rear of the SUV would be OK?
Or does the locked range bag need to be inside a metal locked box in the SUV?

Locked range bag on its own is okay. See my comments earlier RE the case law on this.

 

[M1911]

Just to go back to the transport law .
They say to lock in the trunk.
What if you have a SUV (Mazda CX5) how is that law applied? Is locked in the auto the same as a trunk.

The law states locked trunk, locked case, or other secure container. The back of an SUV is NOT a locked trunk. A locked car is NOT considered to be a "secure container." If you drive an SUV, you need to use locked cases in order to comply with the law.

 

[M1911]

So a locked range bag in the rear of the SUV would be OK?

Probably.

Or does the locked range bag need to be inside a metal locked box in the SUV?

As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been a case that went to the SJC that clarified whether a fabric case with a lock on it is a "locked case". We all assume that it is, due to our plain text reading of the law. But with the SJC, you never know.

I transport in fabric cases with cheap luggage locks, because heavy cases are a pain in the ass. But you have to decide your level of risk tolerance. The most risk averse recommendation would be to use a hard-sided case with a sturdy lock at every location on the case that can take a lock. I'm not aware of anyone who got jammed up for transporting in a locked, fabric case, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen if you ran into the wrong cop and the wrong assistant DA.

 

[MAJoe]

Probably.

As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been a case that went to the SJC that clarified whether a fabric case with a lock on it is a "locked case". We all assume that it is, due to our plain text reading of the law. But with the SJC, you never know.

I transport in fabric cases with cheap luggage locks, because heavy cases are a pain in the ass. But you have to decide your level of risk tolerance. The most risk averse recommendation would be to use a hard-sided case with a sturdy lock at every location on the case that can take a lock. I'm not aware of anyone who got jammed up for transporting in a locked, fabric case, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen if you ran into the wrong cop and the wrong assistant DA.

Locked rifle container in vehicle question

The the law does state ‘locked case or other secure container’, secure being the undefined/ambiguous term and ‘or other’ inferring that term also applies to ‘locked case’. Somewhere I’ve run across some pretty specific jury instructions that say something along the lines of ‘secure’ means an...

www.northeastshooters.com

Secured fabric case with a padlock.

 

[Coda]

but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen if you ran into the wrong cop and the wrong assistant DA.

Exactly....... Most cops probably don't care but there are some hardos out there.

It is like a lot of other things when it comes to MA gun laws, you have to decide what your risk factor is. Mine gets lower as I get older.

 

[Coda]

*groan*

People like to get all histrionic about this but the reality is a vehicle search isn't that common. Think about what has to happen for something to get to that point.

A vehicle search may not be that common. But a cop glancing into to the back of your SUV during a traffic stop is very common.

An ANY sort of a gun case in the back of your SUV is going to get his attention. A good cop most likely is going to ask you how your day at the range went (he already knows you have an LTC before he steps out of his cruiser so he doesn't need to ask to see that). A bad cop might decide you are about to have a very bad day, just because of your gun case.