lone wolf dis. timber wolf frame mass compliant ?

[bgoum]

10-4
Just trying to be an upstanding law-abiding citizen!

 

[cockpitbob]

Frames are not "mass compliant" They are not firearms under MGL.

-Mike

Forgive my ignorance, but under MA laws, what is a firearm? I always thought it was the part with the serial number.

 

[jasons]

I didn't realize that, at first I thought they were some kind of anodized aluminum deal. Even given that though, they've been out for awhile and I haven't seen any in circulation.

-Mike

I remember Timberwolf used to make Glock compatible frames from some sort of metal alloy. Haven't seen one in years though. I guess they've moved on to fantastic plastic.

 

[wmass]

^ you thinking ccf raceframes?

 

[knfmn]

Forgive my ignorance, but under MA laws, what is a firearm? I always thought it was the part with the serial number.

According to federal law the serialized part is a firearm. According to MA law it isn't a firearm until it is capable of firing a shot.

 

[dcmdon]

^ it is that easy. As long as the frame wasn't previously made in to a firearm.

NO - Citation please?

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks! - Great information!
So in theory - you can buy a Gen 4 frame (stripped or built) and transfer in, then buy a Gen 4 slide.
Marry the two, then eFA-10.

Its not in theory. Its in practice. A frame is not a firearm per MA.

This is not a nod and a wink kind of loop hole thing. The FRB will openly acknowledge this on the record. Totally on the up and up.

 

[jasons]

^ you thinking ccf raceframes?

View attachment 157164

Probably.

 

[dcmdon]

According to federal law the serialized part is a firearm. According to MA law it isn't a firearm until it is capable of firing a shot.

Correct.

Which creates some interesting situations.

For example, you can buy and sell frames or lowers (including AR lowers) with other people, even in MA, with nothing more than money and a handshake.

That means the transaction can be totally, completely ANONYMOUS AND LEGAL. This is why I keep saying that the only reason to buy an 80% lower is for the satisfaction of building one.

If you want to be legal and anonymous, go to a gun show and pay cash for a lower.
Remember, its not a firearm per MA.

Per the ATF, secondary transfers between non-licensees (FFLs) do not require any NICS checks, 4473s, or record keeping of any kind.

So you can legally and anonymously buy and sell frames and lowers in MA.

Other implications:
1) it doesn't count towards your 4 firearms when you sell.
2) No FID or LTC is needed to buy or possess. Since its not a firearm.
3) Storage or transport laws don't apply to it, since its not a firearm.
4) No eFA10 should be completed when transferring one.
5) An eFA10 must be completed when it is built into a functional firearm. Or if you want to be really cautious, when you possess all the parts necessary to make it a functional firearm. (google constructive possession)

Like I tell people in my LTC class, cigarettes are more regulated by the state of MA than firearm frames.

Don

 

[bgoum]

Its not in theory. Its in practice. A frame is not a firearm per MA.

This is not a nod and a wink kind of loop hole thing. The FRB will openly acknowledge this on the record. Totally on the up and up.

Just trying not to piss off any moderators

 

[dcmdon]

Just trying not to piss off any moderators

Why would the moderators care if you are saying the truth. Don't censure yourself if what you are trying to say is correct. The moderators don't care.

Don

 

[bgoum]

Why would the moderators care if you are saying the truth. Don't censure yourself if what you are trying to say is correct. The moderators don't care.

Don

Earlier in this thread, I was not really "stating" as much as I was asking questions and trying to confirm something I did not know. I was under the impression that my questions were getting a little too detailed for a public forum.

 

[jasons]

Earlier in this thread, I was not really "stating" as much as I was asking questions and trying to confirm something I did not know. I was under the impression that my questions were getting a little too detailed for a public forum.

They were....

Look, there are certain "wall hacks" that are perfectly legal and totally legit. There are also people from the AG's office and other anti-gun groups who troll here and would love to shut those down if they knew they existed. What they don't know won't hurt us.

 

[bgoum]

They were....

Look, there are certain "wall hacks" that are perfectly legal and totally legit. There are also people from the AG's office and other anti-gun groups who troll here and would love to shut those down if they knew they existed. What they don't know won't hurt us.

Understandable on the trolls - it is very difficult however to sometimes obtain some "shared" knowledge from the group/forum when it's closely guarded by the few.

 

[jasons]

Understandable on the trolls - it is very difficult however to sometimes obtain some "shared" knowledge from the group/forum when it's closely guarded by the few.

Yep. Unfortunately we've been burned before.

 

[MachineHead]

Understandable on the trolls - it is very difficult however to sometimes obtain some "shared" knowledge from the group/forum when it's closely guarded by the few.

There is no "shared" knowledge. Either you're legal or you're not. There are no Sarah Palin "winks", no under-the-table tactics, and to suggest either is playing with potential felony territories.

We're working very hard in this state to dispel these types of ideas and the last thing we need is to muck it up with bs ideas.

Follow the law, shoot safely, and enjoy your freedom legally and responsibly.

 

[jasons]

There is no "shared" knowledge. Either you're legal or you're not. There are no Sarah Palin "winks", no under-the-table tactics, and to suggest either is playing with potential felony territories.

We're working very hard in this state to dispel these types of ideas and the last thing we need is to muck it up with bs ideas.

Follow the law, shoot safely, and enjoy your freedom legally and responsibly.

There are, however, legal methods and topics that we don't talk about here. For example: specific companies who ship ammo to MA (legal, but if the wrong people hear about it they get C&D letters and we lose the resource,) places that do or don't use metal detectors at the door (again legal, but if venue X hears that people are asking how to conceal carry there they may create restrictive policies,) dealers who will do transfers of things that other dealers won't, etc. We don't talk about these things here because in the past it's led to the loss of those resources, and that sucks for everyone.

This is no different.

If you want to keep your legally valid and perfectly legitimate methods working it's best not to crow about them too loudly on a public forum. You never know who's listening.

Or go ahead and do it, just don't be surprised if Cynthia Creamy submits a bill banning frame transfers to the next legislative session.

 

[bgoum]

There is no "shared" knowledge. Either you're legal or you're not. There are no Sarah Palin "winks", no under-the-table tactics, and to suggest either is playing with potential felony territories.

We're working very hard in this state to dispel these types of ideas and the last thing we need is to muck it up with bs ideas.

Follow the law, shoot safely, and enjoy your freedom legally and responsibly.

I fully realize that. The "shared" knowledge of the members that I was referring to was entirely LEGAL that I was inquiring about. I was unclear on the current law and trying to get some clarification. Nice to meet you too.

 

[Len-2A Training]

There are, however, legal methods and topics that we don't talk about here. For example: specific companies who ship ammo to MA (legal, but if the wrong people hear about it they get C&D letters and we lose the resource,) places that do or don't use metal detectors at the door (again legal, but if venue X hears that people are asking how to conceal carry there they may create restrictive policies,) dealers who will do transfers of things that other dealers won't, etc. We don't talk about these things here because in the past it's led to the loss of those resources, and that sucks for everyone.

This is no different.

If you want to keep your legally valid and perfectly legitimate methods working it's best not to crow about them too loudly on a public forum. You never know who's listening.

Or go ahead and do it, just don't be surprised if Cynthia Creamy submits a bill banning frame transfers to the next legislative session.

As Jason says, there are things that I will not answer here or on any public forum. Some of those things I do discuss in my MA Gun Law Seminar . . . but fair warning, I do not keep track of vendors who will ship to MA even for my own use. When I run out of ammo and supplies I might take some interest in that, but I hope to no longer be in MA by that time.

 

[bgoum]

As Jason says, there are things that I will not answer here or on any public forum. Some of those things I do discuss in my MA Gun Law Seminar . . . but fair warning, I do not keep track of vendors who will ship to MA even for my own use. When I run out of ammo and supplies I might take some interest in that, but I hope to no longer be in MA by that time.

Understood. I was not looking for vendors - already have my own list.
It does appear that there are a few who will answer questions regarding the law in this forum, but can be most condescending when doing so - apparently they have been experts ALL their lives.
I was simply looking for some clarification to the existing law trying to tap into some of the experience on this board. I will clearly steer clear of that topic going forward.
Len2, you have been most helpful to several of my posts in this forum on other subjects as well, thank you.