M1A vs. AR10

If you are dead set on mounting an optic to an M14 (M1A is a Springfield trade mark) you should consider the LRB M25 which has an integral scope mount.
The SEI, Sadlak and a few other scope mounts are effectively copies of the very successful Brookfield Precision Tool mount.
 
horsegoalie said:
I am looking to get a 308 rifle for use at our 300yd range, and maybe for light hunting. I am looking into an M1A loaded and a S&W M&P10. The hunting is a lower priority. To me, accuracy is most important. I will not compete, but I like to punch small groups in paper.

I would be adding a scope and bipod, makung the AR maybe easier to deal with. I know little of the M1A, so any advice would be appreciated...

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Click to expand...

An properly built AR-15 in .223 is more accurate than either one of them.
 
Sweeney said:
If you are dead set on mounting an optic to an M14 (M1A is a Springfield trade mark) you should consider the LRB M25 which has an integral scope mount.
The SEI, Sadlak and a few other scope mounts are effectively copies of the very successful Brookfield Precision Tool mount.
Click to expand...

The LRBs are pretty much the ultimate M14s, but they're also priced like they are. $3k vs. $1600 for an M1A loaded.
 
bsalie said:
I will agree that a AR-10 target rifle will beat most M1a's out there, But the S&W is NOT a target ar-10 so you might be disappointed. Also keep in mind that there is no Mil-Spec for .308 AR's. So ever manufacture makes there guns slightly differently, and many parts don't interchange. S&W uses a strange stepped down bolt just so they can use AR-15 buffer tubes and stocks, Many dont interchange Mags and most can not swap uppers between manufactures. so Pick a company that makes what you want, S&W only really makes the 1 .308. Also the ar-10 is for the most part a finicky bitch, it is very ammo dependent and the gas impingement types drop way more fouling onto the bolt that a 5.56. I own both a DPMS .308 and a SA M1A socom II, the M1A will eat anything, not so with the DPMS, there is also the face that there is NO pre-ban AR-10 mags except the SR-25 mags that sell for 100-200 each. Some AR-10 do use FAL mags or HK91 mags, but I have Heard that they are even less reliable guns. If you want some tech details about the faults of .308 AR's talk to John at Remsport, Hem makes some sweet guns and is not a fan of 308 AR's
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I thought my DPMS was rather finicky with ammo until I bought some pmags. I don't think I've had a malfunction since, it'll run anything. Of course, you can't find them now.
 
horsegoalie said:
I am looking to get a 308 rifle for use at our 300yd range, and maybe for light hunting. I am looking into an M1A loaded and a S&W M&P10. The hunting is a lower priority. To me, accuracy is most important. I will not compete, but I like to punch small groups in paper.

I would be adding a scope and bipod, makung the AR maybe easier to deal with. I know little of the M1A, so any advice would be appreciated...

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Click to expand...

They're close to the same. You can get better capacity, lighter weight and lower recoil in an AR-10. Pricing will be the same, accuracy will be close enough (However an AR10 with a floated match heavy barrel will be more accurate). An AR will be easier to mod out of the box, unless you get one of those front heavy M1A that has the giant quad rail cage on the front.

Personally I'd take a QUALITY AR10. I'd rather take it for hunting trips and in to combat. However, the M1A is nothing to scoff at and wouldn't have any trouble with that either
 
PaulD said:
Why would a .223 be more accurate than a .308 of essentially the same design?
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Better ballistics, lower recoil, better fit. Just better. Look at how many top-level competitors shoot match rifles based on the AR-15 design vs. the AR-10 design. Sure there are a few AR-10s out there but they are the minority.

Now if we're talking 800 yards it's a different story.
 
Contramnky said:
What makes the AR10 so much more accurate than an M1A?
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For one, you can get an AR10 with a free float tube, so pressure on the sling and handguard won't affect the barrel. With an M1A, you will have to properly bed the stock to get the best accuracy.
 
I think pretty much all aspects have been covered here..

But I will throw this out there...

An M1A with a wood stock and a flush magazine is a lot more Fudd/ sheeple friendly. As it's not a scary eeeevil black rifle with shoulder things going up all over it...

Nice Walnut and no scary pistol grip?? It has to be a non eeevil sporting rifle, right?
 
vellnueve said:
Chances are the M1A, as dated a design as it is, will outshoot you.
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Depends. After someone Isaac Mccaskill tunes it up, yes it will. Out of the box they're exactly not know to be super accurate. There's a reason that guys spend thousands of dollars to get them tuned up.
 
jasons said:
Depends. After someone Isaac Mccaskill tunes it up, yes it will. Out of the box they're exactly not know to be super accurate. There's a reason that guys spend thousands of dollars to get them tuned up.
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I agree, but if you're not looking to do more than shoot recreationally at 300 yards, there's a good chance you won't notice the difference.
 
I've owned both. Get a FAL. [troll]
In all seriousness, for what you want with it I would choose a flat-top AR-308 with a floated barrel hands down. Easier to scope, more accurate out of the box, and will meet all your needs.
I have a soft spot in my heart for a M1A.. they are a joy to shoot, especially with irons. However, I think their "they just work" rep is over-rated.. I've seen more than one (including my own) that needed work to be 100% reliable and accurate. They are not as easy to scope as an AR-308, and heavier to boot.
 
I've got a FAL. I'm not a fan. The sights suck compared to an M1A or AR10. The trigger is also far better on the M1A and AR10. Scoping a FAL is relatively easy, but then you can't take off the dust cover during normal cleaning.

Like the AR10, I find that the FAL has a long receiver, putting my support hand way, way out there. I just can't shoot it comfortable offhand. The front handguard is too far away and the gun is too muzzle heavy.

Some folks say the FAL is great because it has an adjustable gas system. Personally, I think that the adjustable gas system is a major weakness of the FAL. If you misadjust the FAL gas system, giving it too much gas, then the bolt can get pushed back too quickly and with too much force, stripping the rim off the cartridge. The remainder of the cartridge would then be stuck in the chamber and you're not getting the gun in action without tools.

If you misadjust the gas system the other way, giving it too little gas, then the case won't be fully ejected and can get jammed between the bolt carrier and the dust cover. This is something I have experienced firsthand. With the bolt jammed partway to the rear, you can't open up the gun to remove the dust cover. If you are lucky, stomping on the charging handle will free it up. If you are unlucky, you've just broken the charging handle.

Is it hard to properly adjust the gas system? No, it isn't, if you read the instructions. But if you do misadjust it you can really screw up the rifle. Been there, done that.

Here is the full procedure for adjusting the M1A and AR10 gas systems:

Yup, that's it, no adjustment necessary. They just work. This is one of those things where the fan boys say "oohhh, its better because it has this extra knob that you can twiddle that no other rifle has!" Well, if hardly any other rifles need an adjustable gas system, then ask yourself just how often that extra little bit of complication is needed.
 
M1911 said:
I've got a FAL. I'm not a fan. The sights suck compared to an M1A or AR10. The trigger is also far better on the M1A and AR10. Scoping a FAL is relatively easy, but then you can't take off the dust cover during normal cleaning.

Like the AR10, I find that the FAL has a long receiver, putting my support hand way, way out there. I just can't shoot it comfortable offhand. The front handguard is too far away and the gun is too muzzle heavy.

Some folks say the FAL is great because it has an adjustable gas system. Personally, I think that the adjustable gas system is a major weakness of the FAL. If you misadjust the FAL gas system, giving it too much gas, then the bolt can get pushed back too quickly and with too much force, stripping the rim off the cartridge. The remainder of the cartridge would then be stuck in the chamber and you're not getting the gun in action without tools.

If you misadjust the gas system the other way, giving it too little gas, then the case won't be fully ejected and can get jammed between the bolt carrier and the dust cover. This is something I have experienced firsthand. With the bolt jammed partway to the rear, you can't open up the gun to remove the dust cover. If you are lucky, stomping on the charging handle will free it up. If you are unlucky, you've just broken the charging handle.

Is it hard to properly adjust the gas system? No, it isn't, if you read the instructions. But if you do misadjust it you can really screw up the rifle. Been there, done that.

Here is the full procedure for adjusting the M1A and AR10 gas systems:

Yup, that's it, no adjustment necessary. They just work. This is one of those things where the fan boys say "oohhh, its better because it has this extra knob that you can twiddle that no other rifle has!" Well, if hardly any other rifles need an adjustable gas system, then ask yourself just how often that extra little bit of complication is needed.
Click to expand...
Agree on all points, hence the [troll] smiley. They are great rifles, but definitely not a beginner's rifle nor superior to the previously mentioned ones.
 
What are other options to consider for a semi-automatic .308 besides the M1A and AR-10 based rifles such as the LAR-8 from RRA?

My AR-15 is set up for target/hunting. Other than a 10/22 it's my only rifle (also have an 870 12-gauge, a 9mm and .45 pistols). In thinking of expanding my 'arsenal' I was looking for a tactical/hunting type rifle with more stopping power than the .223/5.56.

Is under $1000 an unreasonable request? Would changing my criteria to bolt-action provide a better list of options for the money?
 
StevieP said:
What are other options to consider for a semi-automatic .308 besides the M1A and AR-10 based rifles such as the LAR-8 from RRA?
Click to expand...

HK91's another option.

Is under $1000 an unreasonable request?
Click to expand...

Probably.

Would changing my criteria to bolt-action provide a better list of options for the money?
Click to expand...

Yes, if a bolt action fits your needs.
 
I own a Springfield M1a and a Rock River Lar-8 Predator..( Factory stainless barrel ) ......I love my M1a with its beautiful wood stock and classic lines.....but the Rock River is an absolute tack driver compared to the m1a...... Just have a look at the RRA's...... they are the best AR type 308's out there for the money.....and they use cheap FAL magazines too !!!
 
horsegoalie said:
To me, accuracy is most important.
Click to expand...

This seals it for the AR. Its much easier and cheaper to make an AR accurate. The M1A is the quintessential battle rifle. But its not going to be as accurate as an AR that costs hundreds less. Don't take my word for it. Call a company like Fulton Armory, who makes match grade M14s (same as the M1A) and match grade ARs. They will tell you. A quick summary is that because it is easy to free float the AR barrel and because the direct impingement system does not introduce any forces into the barrel, the gun is inherently accurate.

If you go to some of the high power forums, you can read about all the crazy stuff people have done to M14s to get match accuracy. Whereas, there is not much magic to making an AR accurate. A good barrel, with a properly fitted bolt and a decent trigger.

The M14 you get into special receivers with extra lugs, glass bedding of the stock and other things, in addition to the standard barrel/bolt/trigger issues.

Don
 
StevieP said:
What are other options to consider for a semi-automatic .308 besides the M1A and AR-10 based rifles such as the LAR-8 from RRA?

My AR-15 is set up for target/hunting. Other than a 10/22 it's my only rifle (also have an 870 12-gauge, a 9mm and .45 pistols). In thinking of expanding my 'arsenal' I was looking for a tactical/hunting type rifle with more stopping power than the .223/5.56.

Is under $1000 an unreasonable request? Would changing my criteria to bolt-action provide a better list of options for the money?
Click to expand...

Remington used to make a 742 Woodsmaster, which I know have taken down a lot of deer.

I see no reason to disregard a Savage or Ruger or Winchester bolt action rifle. Some great package deals are out there.
 
I asked the M1a vs AR-10 question too. I got the same answers you got. This is what I ended up with. It shoots far better than I do, and the kids love it.
IMG_2583.jpg

For an accurate .308 under $1K, I think you're looking at a bolt gun, especially if your $1K is supposed to cover the scope/bipod/etc. too.
 
The .308 AR or AR10 is a generally more accurate platform than the M1A. The other big perk of the platform is modularity. My father-in-law has a match M1A that was his favorite rifle. Until he shot my LMT MWS. I gave him an AR15 carbine one year for Xmas and I don't think he's shot his M1A since.
 

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