MA - Anterless Permits Deadline 7/16/19

djbradles said:
So to be clear there’s the option to get 2 bucks and 2 does this season if on different days during shotgun season or is it tag 2 and then tag another 2 on same day? Obviously a very remote possibility here.
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No, No. Whitetail doesn't work like that. Your hunting license allows you to harvest 2 antlered a ZERO antlerless deer. You can only harvest what you have a tag for. Antlerless deer tags are available by lottery and in limited quantities. You have to enter the lottery by July (when I opened this thread originally). If you miss the deadline or don't win in the lottery, than no antlerless deer for you. Some zones have more tags than lotto applicants. So everyone is a winner. Other zones have people who have been trying for 10 years and haven't won.

The zones that have extra tags will sell them as surplus tags. This is only in Zones 10 and 11 each year. But they're gone in about 24 hours from the day they go on sale, so you have to be Johnny on the spot. You can only buy 1 in a 24 hour period insuring others have access. So you'll pretty much get one if you're on the ball. Other zones will not have surplus tags.

Please read up on the regulations. You have to be on point with this stuff as environmental police don't play games. You don't want to get jammed up breaking the law with a firearm in this state (or any state but especially here)... Someone jammed up violating hunting regs may not be "suitable" in the eyes of the chief, if you get my drift. You need to know what an "anter" vs "antlerless" deer is too. It's NOT buck v doe. A Buck CAN be antlerless and require an antlerless tag. You need to know when that's the case.

Get yourself read up on the regulations...
 
ThePreBanMan said:
No, No. Whitetail doesn't work like that. Your hunting license allows you to harvest 2 antlered a ZERO antlerless deer. You can only harvest what you have a tag for. Antlerless deer tags are available by lottery and in limited quantities. You have to enter the lottery by July (when I opened this thread originally). If you miss the deadline or don't win in the lottery, than no antlerless deer for you. Some zones have more tags than lotto applicants. So everyone is a winner. Other zones have people who have been trying for 10 years and haven't won.

The zones that have extra tags will sell them as surplus tags. This is only in Zones 10 and 11 each year. But they're gone in about 24 hours from the day they go on sale, so you have to be Johnny on the spot. You can only buy 1 in a 24 hour period insuring others have access. So you'll pretty much get one if you're on the ball. Other zones will not have surplus tags.

Please read up on the regulations. You have to be on point with this stuff as environmental police don't play games. You don't want to get jammed up breaking the law with a firearm in this state... You need to know what an "anter" vs "antlerless" deer is too. It's NOT buck v doe. A Buck CAN be antlerless and require an antlerless tag. You need to know when that's the case.

Get yourself read up on the regulations...
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Yup, I have been studying it. Lots of regulations. Understood that antlerless do have antlers from time to time and they must be less than 3” from burr to tip. Antlered are 1 antler at least 3” from burr to tip.


I have of course both antlered tags and my Zone 9 antlerless. I also expect to get the surplus on 9/26 at 9:01am. So my question still stands.
 
djbradles said:
Yup, I have been studying it. Lots of regulations. Understood that antlerless do have antlers from time to time and they must be less than 3” from burr to tip. Antlered are 1 antler at least 3” from burr to tip.


I have of course both antlered tags and my Zone 9 antlerless. I also expect to get the surplus on 9/26 at 9:01am. So my question still stands.
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I wouldn't count on a surplus in zone 9. It's only 10, 11 and the islands that have them consistently. I hate to sound like a dick and I don't mean to, but if you have a question about the regs, than my answer is read them. They're pretty clear. There is NO daily bag limit on whitetail. If you have a tag, than you can hang it on an animal.

Edit.
The web site does say 9 has some this year. So you're in luck.
 
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ThePreBanMan said:
The zones that have extra tags will sell them as surplus tags. This is only in Zones 10 and 11 each year. But they're gone in about 24 hours from the day they go on sale, so you have to be Johnny on the spot. You can only buy 1 in a 24 hour period insuring others have access. So you'll pretty much get one if you're on the ball. Other zones will not have surplus tags.
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Zone 10 will haven enough so that one (ie, me) can get a surplus several days in a row, usually up to several (7 or 8). But don't take the tags unless you are going to hunt to fill them. I got 3 surplus Zone 10 last year, and I harvested 2 antlered and 2 antlerless. I got a button buck (antlerless) and a 4 pt buck in the same stand sesssion as well.
 
Squire said:
Zone 10 will haven enough so that one (ie, me) can get a surplus several days in a row, usually up to several (7 or 8). But don't take the tags unless you are going to hunt to fill them. I got 3 surplus Zone 10 last year, and I harvested 2 antlered and 2 antlerless. I got a button buck (antlerless) and a 4 pt buck in the same stand sesssion as well.
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Damn... That hasn;t been my experience. I usually buy one in 11 and when trying to get one in 10 or 11 the next day, they're gone. 7+ surplus tags, that seems hard to believe man...
 
Let’s just throw this in the thread for clarity if others have any question. A nice ethical kill also that intrigued me so now it’s my avatar.
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ThePreBanMan said:
I hear what you're saying, what I'm saying is I've tried and there were none on day 2...
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The last few seasons Zone 10 has gone several days with tags available. But I only take 3 or 4 antlerless in Zone 10 in addition to my Zone 9 that I applied for.
 
ThePreBanMan said:
I wouldn't count on a surplus in zone 9. It's only 10, 11 and the islands that have them consistently. I hate to sound like a dick and I don't mean to, but if you have a question about the regs, than my answer is read them. They're pretty clear. There is NO daily bag limit on whitetail. If you have a tag, than you can hang it on an animal.

Edit.
The web site does say 9 has some this year. So you're in luck.
Click to expand...
One comment .......other than the cape and the islands you can only have two unchecked deer in your possession. Therefore during the first week of shotgun season where live check in is required you may shoot 2 deer......then at that point you must go check them in.....then after check in you may go hunt if you still have tags.

Outside if the first week of shotgun you can check online so after tagging 2 deer you'd only be required to check them in online with your phone .....then you may keep hunting if you have tags.
 
whacko said:
One comment .......other than the cape and the islands you can only have two unchecked deer in your possession. Therefore during the first week of shotgun season where live check in is required you may shoot 2 deer......then at that point you must go check them in.....then after check in you may go hunt if you still have tags.

Outside if the first week of shotgun you can check online so after tagging 2 deer you'd only be required to check them in online with your phone .....then you may keep hunting if you have tags.
Click to expand...

Good point, and a good problem to have really... One I've never encountered... 3 deer in a day... Yea, I'm lucky for 3 in a season and that's a damn good year. But I'm rather particular about what I fling an arrow or slug at and I hunt solo. So there's that....

I guess if you were on a drive it's possible. But you'll have multiple hunters who can hang a tag on animals so it wouldn't really be a limiting factor..
 
ThePreBanMan said:
Good point, and a good problem to have really... One I've never encountered... 3 deer in a day... Yea, I'm lucky for 3 in a season and that's a damn good year. But I'm rather particular about what I fling an arrow or slug at and I hunt solo. So there's that....

I guess if you were on a drive it's possible. But you'll have multiple hunters who can hang a tag on animals so it wouldn't really be a limiting factor..
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Is sharing tags legal? We have never done that in my group we only shoot what the individual has tags for. Never even researched it we all hunt under the assumption that tagging a deer for another Hunter would be wrong.
 
whacko said:
Is sharing tags legal? We have never done that in my group we only shoot what the individual has tags for. Never even researched it we all hunt under the assumption that tagging a deer for another Hunter would be wrong.
Click to expand...

No it's not. Whomever shoots a.k.a. "harvests" the animal hangs their tag on it. But on drives you can rotate shooters.
 
whacko said:
Is sharing tags legal? We have never done that in my group we only shoot what the individual has tags for. Never even researched it we all hunt under the assumption that tagging a deer for another Hunter would be wrong.
Click to expand...

Negative. Cannot share tags and must kill deer in zones permit is stated for.

People constantly running afoul of these laws. People tell me that 5%-10% of hunters don't follow the law. I always agree with that, with the following exception, when it comes to aforementioned law of tag trading, and killing does in zones intended, then I say shotgun hunters in groups, probably approach more like 30-40% even 50% not following these laws. Tag trading (someone shooting a doe they don't have a tag for and a buddy tagging it) obviously being the more blatantly ignored law.

For example....One of the reason's I don't get together on drives in my area of Zone 5 or 8, is that almost every drive I've participated in starts this way.....standard practice when a group of ten goes out on a drive, they all count up their doe permits and walk in the woods. We can shoot 4 does boys!!!.....whack em and stack em and we'll figure out who and when when it comes to tagging time. Oh.....and if we go over...there's always that surplus Zone 10 or 11 permit I have in my pocket....just in case we go over by "accident"

I'm glad to hear that Whacko's group does it differently, but that to me is the is not the norm in groups of shotgun hunters in MA, in my area, in my opinion. People are always using their father's, brothers distant cousins doe permit to tag their 70 pound doe, and if they don't have it....they are using a zone 11 surplus. I'm willing to bet that if you checked 10 guys on a shotgun drive in my area...at least 5 of them would have a Zone 10 or 11 tag in their pocket, even though they never set foot there to hunt.

The majority of these guys are meat hunters that like to spend as little time as possible in the woods and more time at the bar. They take the first week of shotgun and that is the only hunting they do all year. They never scout, never hunt alone, wouldn't have any idea how to sit a treestand, because they use big groups to get deer moving hopefully get lucky. Bowhunting, muzzleloader hunting or stand hunting would be foreign and stupid to them because it would require work and preparation, less time and money spent on beer. That is the type of "hunters" these are.
 
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ThePreBanMan said:
No, No. Whitetail doesn't work like that. Your hunting license allows you to harvest 2 antlered a ZERO antlerless deer. You can only harvest what you have a tag for. Antlerless deer tags are available by lottery and in limited quantities. You have to enter the lottery by July (when I opened this thread originally). If you miss the deadline or don't win in the lottery, than no antlerless deer for you. Some zones have more tags than lotto applicants. So everyone is a winner. Other zones have people who have been trying for 10 years and haven't won.

The zones that have extra tags will sell them as surplus tags. This is only in Zones 10 and 11 each year. But they're gone in about 24 hours from the day they go on sale, so you have to be Johnny on the spot. You can only buy 1 in a 24 hour period insuring others have access. So you'll pretty much get one if you're on the ball. Other zones will not have surplus tags.

Please read up on the regulations. You have to be on point with this stuff as environmental police don't play games. You don't want to get jammed up breaking the law with a firearm in this state (or any state but especially here)... Someone jammed up violating hunting regs may not be "suitable" in the eyes of the chief, if you get my drift. You need to know what an "anter" vs "antlerless" deer is too. It's NOT buck v doe. A Buck CAN be antlerless and require an antlerless tag. You need to know when that's the case.

Get yourself read up on the regulations...
Click to expand...

This all sounds very complicated. Does this work out OK for everyone? Do other states also do this sort of thing? It sounds like they have put a lot of effort into trying to do this.

I'd be happy to just get one either which way. I don't have the freezer space for more than that.
 
Coyote33 said:
This all sounds very complicated. Does this work out OK for everyone? Do other states also do this sort of thing? It sounds like they have put a lot of effort into trying to do this.

I'd be happy to just get one either which way. I don't have the freezer space for more than that.
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It's not that complicated in actual practice. Pretty much if the deer has one visible antler ( over 3 inches) it requires an antlered deer tag. If it doesn't have have one visible antler it requires an antlerless tag. What it had for reproductive organs doesn't matter. It's set up that way to make it easier for a Hunter to identify quickly.

As far as the lottery.... Enter by July 16 on line for the zone you want your antlerless permit for. Come back Aug 1 to see if you got an antlerless permit. Surplus tags go on sale in September.

It's not that complicated
 
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Maybe it is just the zones that seem to complicate things. They are groupings of towns you don't see anywhere else. Do these ever change?
 
Coyote33 said:
Maybe it is just the zones that seem to complicate things. They are groupings of towns you don't see anywhere else. Do these ever change?
Click to expand...
The zones stay the same. The number of antlerless tags allotted is supposed to be set to control the deer population. Zones with populations near or below the target get fewer antlerless tags. Populations above target get more antlerless tags. When you take does you remove not only that deer but at her offspring from the population model. When you take a buck you only remove that single deer.

That's the theory and for the most part it works. There are many mass hunters that think the Western zones should be managed even tighter because the populations are lower than the biologists are claiming. Plus as prebanman says..... Hunters cheat. They but zone 10 and 11 surp antlerless tags...... And use them in Western zones. Me and my crew drive deer in zones 9 and 10. ..... That is legal.... But we don't "share tags". I believe that many does are taken in Western zones and tagged with surplus 10 and 11 tags......guys cheat alot imo
 
whacko said:
The zones stay the same. The number of antlerless tags allotted is supposed to be set to control the deer population. Zones with populations near or below the target get fewer antlerless tags. Populations above target get more antlerless tags. When you take does you remove not only that deer but at her offspring from the population model. When you take a buck you only remove that single deer.

That's the theory and for the most part it works. There are many mass hunters that think the Western zones should be managed even tighter because the populations are lower than the biologists are claiming. Plus as prebanman says..... Hunters cheat. They but zone 10 and 11 surp antlerless tags...... And use them in Western zones. Me and my crew drive deer in zones 9 and 10. ..... That is legal.... But we don't "share tags". I believe that many does are taken in Western zones and tagged with surplus 10 and 11 tags......guys cheat alot imo
Click to expand...

Ill add that the main reason guys cheat in western zones is its harder to get a doe tag. So they get a surplus tag or just apply in zones 9-14 and are guaranteed one.

Im an advocate for no doe tags at all in zones 1-7. It seems extreme but it would offset all the illegal tag trading does getting killed, that aren’t being counted.
And the poor management and habitat that the state has in that area. As shown by the recent quabbin hunt data that shows kill being well below state averages, deer are not reproducing well in those areas.

Also, people are less likely to try and kill a doe where you absolutely cant shoot one. It would also help law enforcement identify and prosecute, by monitoring check in logs. If a doe gets checked into a place from someone that lives in Zone 5. They should pay that person a visit and identify and validate kill site in zone 8-14. Do that a few times and word gets out, the shit will stop.
 
Mark from MA said:
Ill add that the main reason guys cheat in western zones is its harder to get a doe tag. So they get a surplus tag or just apply in zones 9-14 and are guaranteed one.

Im an advocate for no doe tags at all in zones 1-7. It seems extreme but it would offset all the illegal tag trading does getting killed, that aren’t being counted.
And the poor management and habitat that the state has in that area. As shown by the recent quabbin hunt data that shows kill being well below state averages, deer are not reproducing well in those areas.

Also, people are less likely to try and kill a doe where you absolutely cant shoot one. It would also help law enforcement identify and prosecute, by monitoring check in logs. If a doe gets checked into a place from someone that lives in Zone 5. They should pay that person a visit and identify and validate kill site in zone 8-14. Do that a few times and word gets out, the shit will stop.
Click to expand...
I agree
 
whacko said:
The zones stay the same. The number of antlerless tags allotted is supposed to be set to control the deer population. Zones with populations near or below the target get fewer antlerless tags. Populations above target get more antlerless tags. When you take does you remove not only that deer but at her offspring from the population model. When you take a buck you only remove that single deer.

That's the theory and for the most part it works. There are many mass hunters that think the Western zones should be managed even tighter because the populations are lower than the biologists are claiming. Plus as prebanman says..... Hunters cheat. They but zone 10 and 11 surp antlerless tags...... And use them in Western zones. Me and my crew drive deer in zones 9 and 10. ..... That is legal.... But we don't "share tags". I believe that many does are taken in Western zones and tagged with surplus 10 and 11 tags......guys cheat alot imo
Click to expand...

I agree as well.

I find it interesting that all Connecticut deer tags are good state wide. I only get the archery license and you get two either sex and two antlerless (doe) tags. You also get two January tags for southern CT only.

So theoretically you can shoot four does anywhere you want. The gun seasons do have some limits as I understand it but I don’t hunt the gun seasons.

I think that the difference lies in the private land sanctuary areas. Unlike Massachusetts you have to have written permission to hunt any nonpublic hunting ground. Their creates sanctuary ares for deer throughout the state.

Bob
 

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