MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[Asaltweapon]

By that much.

Ok Maxwell.

 

[pastera]

Not that it hasn’t been said a million times I’ll say it again
We all have friends who are cops, and they are good people. It’s not your brother in law or best friend who’s the problem,
The problem is the collectivism behind the thin blue line.
All of my friends who are cops tell me about the nefarious and scummy things some guys do, but do they do anything about it? No cause if they speak up they lose their whole Livelihood
Every one of my friends who is an LEO said they won’t enforce these laws, well they aren’t the problem are they?

The cops aren’t your friends
You may have friends who are cops but that’s not the same is it?

Your friend who is a cop might look the other way fornyou once in a while but they aren't going to go out of their way to get another cop to look the other way.
Not going to say ACAB but the vast majority don't have an issue with you being considered less human than their "brothers"

 

[CMEBoston]

Your friend who is a cop might look the other way fornyou once in a while but they aren't going to go out of their way to get another cop to look the other way.
Not going to say ACAB but the vast majority don't have an issue with you being considered less human than their "brothers"

Fascism with a friendly face

 

[Picton]

Your friend who is a cop might look the other way fornyou once in a while but they aren't going to go out of their way to get another cop to look the other way.
Not going to say ACAB but the vast majority don't have an issue with you being considered less human than their "brothers"

That's the thing: a cop might be your friend. But his "brothers" will always be more important to him than you. 99% of the time, there's no conflict between his friendship with you and his loyalty to The Fraternity, but someday that 1% might roll around. And on that day, he'll choose them over you.

I'm like @Dadstoys in that I grew up thinking the cops were Noble Public Servants and it took me awhile to come around to the conclusion that they are, in fact, the Standing Army our founders warned us about.

 

[June4th]

I stopped teaching my kids ‘Cops are your friends’ as soon as they learned to safely cross streets, and replace the lesson with ‘Don not talk to the police’.

 

[Junior314]

That's the thing: a cop might be your friend. But his "brothers" will always be more important to him than you. 99% of the time, there's no conflict between his friendship with you and his loyalty to The Fraternity, but someday that 1% might roll around. And on that day, he'll choose them over you.

I'm like @Dadstoys in that I grew up thinking the cops were Noble Public Servants and it took me awhile to come around to the conclusion that they are, in fact, the Standing Army our founders warned us about.

Brother in law is a cop.

Always was a solid dude. He pretty much exclusively hangs out with other cops now. Kind of astonishing to see a switch flip and him pretty much ghost everyone he was previously associated with that isn’t a cop.

 

[Nightshift]

Fact or Fiction?
At around the 4 minute mark, he states the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act of 1986 says that no federal or state resource can be used to create a gun registry. I consulted the all trustworthy Interweb and did see it so i figured I’d ask the all trustworthy NES.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HG9c5xHas-I

 

[HARRYM]

NRA-ILA | Gun Registration | Gun Licensing

Less registration and licensing, less crime. There is no universal, national gun registry or federal license required to own a gun, and the vast majority of states don’t require registration or licensing. Yet, since 1991, when violent crime hit an all-time high, total violent crime and murder...

www.nraila.org

 

[ddeck]

Fact or Fiction?
At around the 4 minute mark, he states the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act of 1986 says that no federal or state resource can be used to create a gun registry. I consulted the all trustworthy Interweb and did see it so i figured I’d ask the all trustworthy NES.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HG9c5xHas-I

It's a fact. I brought it up to my useless State rep last year during the original House bill. I received no reply besides the automated reply. I sent multiple emails and had multiple phone calls that were never returned.

My assumption is that they believe that any law with which you disagree can be ignored. They won't have to defend it in court and won't be paying anything to do it.

 

[Grendizer138]

That's the thing: a cop might be your friend. But his "brothers" will always be more important to him than you. 99% of the time, there's no conflict between his friendship with you and his loyalty to The Fraternity, but someday that 1% might roll around. And on that day, he'll choose them over you.

I'm like @Dadstoys in that I grew up thinking the cops were Noble Public Servants and it took me awhile to come around to the conclusion that they are, in fact, the Standing Army our founders warned us about.

Wut? You’re my age, did you not listen to NWA as a kid?

As an adult I always kinda viewed them as a necessary evil with a net benefit to society. I’ve definitely changed that view since china flu shutdown enforcement.

 

[HARRYM]

When Pigs Fly......when the Leftist Communists in America begin to follow the US Constitution, the Laws, Heller, Bruen and the birthright of every American the right of self defense.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Fact or Fiction?
At around the 4 minute mark, he states the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act of 1986 says that no federal or state resource can be used to create a gun registry. I consulted the all trustworthy Interweb and did see it so i figured I’d ask the all trustworthy NES.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HG9c5xHas-I

Fact. It is in the Brady Bill H.R. 1025. Just like Bartley Fox (1975) requires that persons in illegal possession of a firearm receive a year in jail.

Unfortunately, “they” decide when they will actually follow and enforce the laws that “they” passed.

 

[Nightshift]

I’ve always know the feds were prevented from creating a national registry but this is the first time I’ve heard states are also not “allowed” by law either…..

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I’ve always know the feds were prevented from creating a national registry but this is the first time I’ve heard states are also not “allowed” by law either…..

The most ironic part of it is that it is in the Brady Bill.

 

[Nightshift]

He just dropped another video about California trying to establish a gun registry


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PH279vuLoGE

 

[PappyM3]

Didn’t Massachusetts weasel their way into its registry by the claim that it’s just a registry of transfers and not ownership?

Also, the ATF continues to maintain and grow its digital database. Scanning in swaths of 4473s. Now FFLs can no longer throw them away after 20 years and ALL 4473s will get to the ATF one way or another. Whether it is because the FFLs run out of storage space, go out of business, are shut down (due to minor administrative mistakes), or the ATF just decides to come in and take pictures of the entire bound book.

But, they told the courts that it’s not really a database because they turned off the ability to search it …

 

[Nightshift]

Didn’t Massachusetts weasel their way into its registry by the claim that it’s just a registry of transfers and not ownership?

Yeah, but this part seems even more egregious!
Picture borrowed from @Mesatchornug

 

[Taipan01]

Didn’t Massachusetts weasel their way into its registry by the claim that it’s just a registry of transfers and not ownership?

Also, the ATF continues to maintain and grow its digital database. Scanning in swaths of 4473s. Now FFLs can no longer throw them away after 20 years and ALL 4473s will get to the ATF one way or another. Whether it is because the FFLs run out of storage space, go out of business, are shut down (due to minor administrative mistakes), or the ATF just decides to come in and take pictures of the entire bound book.

But, they told the courts that it’s not really a database because they turned off the ability to search it …

I believe they can use off-site storage due to space issues but that space is considered a part of the business for security or some such but yes to the no longer able to destroy after 20 years.

 

[Coyote33]

Fact or Fiction?
At around the 4 minute mark, he states the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act of 1986 says that no federal or state resource can be used to create a gun registry. I consulted the all trustworthy Interweb and did see it so i figured I’d ask the all trustworthy NES.

NRA-ILA | Gun Registration | Gun Licensing

Less registration and licensing, less crime. There is no universal, national gun registry or federal license required to own a gun, and the vast majority of states don’t require registration or licensing. Yet, since 1991, when violent crime hit an all-time high, total violent crime and murder...

www.nraila.org

It's a fact. I brought it up to my useless State rep last year during the original House bill. I received no reply besides the automated reply. I sent multiple emails and had multiple phone calls that were never returned.
My assumption is that they believe that any law with which you disagree can be ignored. They won't have to defend it in court and won't be paying anything to do it.

Fact. It is in the Brady Bill H.R. 1025. Just like Bartley Fox (1975) requires that persons in illegal possession of a firearm receive a year in jail.
Unfortunately, “they” decide when they will actually follow and enforce the laws that “they” passed.

I’ve always know the feds were prevented from creating a national registry but this is the first time I’ve heard states are also not “allowed” by law either…..

It is actually a law, so not sure how this new one gets around it. A state law can't repeal a federal law.

The most ironic part of it is that it is in the Brady Bill.

It says it is the 1986 "FOPA". Is that the same as the "Brady Bill"? For some reason, I don't think so.

Didn’t Massachusetts weasel their way into its registry by the claim that it’s just a registry of transfers and not ownership?
Also, the ATF continues to maintain and grow its digital database. Scanning in swaths of 4473s. Now FFLs can no longer throw them away after 20 years and ALL 4473s will get to the ATF one way or another. Whether it is because the FFLs run out of storage space, go out of business, are shut down (due to minor administrative mistakes), or the ATF just decides to come in and take pictures of the entire bound book.
But, they told the courts that it’s not really a database because they turned off the ability to search it …

Yeah, but this part seems even more egregious!

So, does the 1986 law cancel out this new one? Or vice versa?

18 U.S. Code § 926 - Rules and regulations

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 926 - Rules and regulations​

The Act also forbade the U.S. Government agency from keeping a registry directly linking non-National Firearms Act firearms to their owners, the specific language of this law (Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926) being:

No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

There it is.

Nevertheless, at one point the ATF's National Tracing Center (NTC) contained hundreds of millions of firearm tracing and registration records, and consisted of several databases; but as of May 2016, many of these databases have been deleted to fall inline with record deletion requirements, per the Government Accountability Office (GAO).[17]

Wow. So, should the whole thing that they are proposing also be deleted from these bills, to "fall inline with record deletion requirements"? The Mass legislature and senate don't want to be breaking the law with their new proposals.

How come Comm2A or GOAL never pushed forward on that one?

 

[pastera]

Fact or Fiction?
At around the 4 minute mark, he states the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act of 1986 says that no federal or state resource can be used to create a gun registry. I consulted the all trustworthy Interweb and did see it so i figured I’d ask the all trustworthy NES.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HG9c5xHas-I

It's absolutely true which is why we have a transfer database and not a registration database

The registration option is voluntary so it doesn't run afoul with federal law since you can voluntarily wave your rights

 

[MFSP101]

Yeah, but this part seems even more egregious!
Picture borrowed from @Mesatchornug

View attachment 851979

Make no mistake. Those 2 options have the same result. I had an accident and had to have my truck towed. It was raining pretty hard and the cop told me to hop in the back of his car until my friend showed up. I told him no I’d wait because I was carrying. He said. “ Ya I see you have a few. What are you carting today? “

 

[p..]

It's absolutely true which is why we have a transfer database and not a registration database

The registration option is voluntary so it doesn't run afoul with federal law since you can voluntarily wave your rights

Okay, now I'm confused. I thought I understood this but now I'm not so sure how it works.

It's state law to record a transaction, so if I buy a long gun from an FFL out of state and bring it in, I'm required to use the "register" option (instance 1).

If I buy a frame from an in-state FFL and assemble a non NFA item myself, I'm required to "register" it within 7 days of it being able to fire a shot (instance 2).

If I don't follow that law, I'm subject to a fine for the first offense. I started off with carbon copy FA-10s that I mailed in, and since then we've transitioned to where we are now with online MIRCs.

So the first instance matched (or at least did not run afoul of) federal law, but the second one was actually voluntary and not required by law?

Someone please set me straight.

 

[Reptile]

I don't think the states care about a law that says they can't make you register.

CT recently is requiring all AR's to be registered.

 

[Roadglide]

Every one of my friends who is an LEO said they won’t enforce these laws,

Are they prepared to quit. If not I’m done with this nonsensical logic.

 

[slipknot]

I would like the people who set this transaction portal up in the first place to explain how an Inheritance transaction can even be legal since the deceased no longer has a valid LTC so why do they insist you fill that in? I call bullshit
I don't think they ever follow the transactions of a firearm or trace ownership, they just assume if you ever had a particular firearm in your name, you currently own it still. Seems pretty archaic to me. GUNS ARE BAD

 

[VTHunter]

Wow. So, should the whole thing that they are proposing also be deleted from these bills, to "fall inline with record deletion requirements"? The Mass legislature and senate don't want to be breaking the law with their new proposals.

How come Comm2A or GOAL never pushed forward on that one?

Probably for the same reasons they didn't push back on a $100 fee for the privilege of exercising a constitutional right...

 

[CMEBoston]

Are they prepared to quit. If not I’m done with this nonsensical logic.

Why would you take that one quote out of context? This is quite literally the point in the rest of the post

 

[kalash]

I stopped teaching my kids ‘Cops are your friends’ as soon as they learned to safely cross streets, and replace the lesson with ‘Don not talk to the police’.

I'm teaching my son that if he ever needs help he should try to find a firefighter before resorting to having to talk to a cop.

 

[Roadglide]

Why would you take that one quote out of context? This is quite literally the point in the rest of the post

Because I’ve heard this horseshit over and over. Maybe you need to write it better or I need to read it better. Regardless ,until you cut to the chase and admit that any cop that doesn’t say out loud “I will quit, give up my pension and paycheck before I enforce this unconstitutional/illegal garbage AND puts their proverbial money where their mouth is once the rubber hits the road is a problem…..I’m done listening to any of this and calling it out for what it is. Garbage

 

[chris_1001]

I would like the people who set this transaction portal up in the first place to explain how an Inheritance transaction can even be legal since the deceased no longer has a valid LTC so why do they insist you fill that in? I call bullshit
I don't think they ever follow the transactions of a firearm or trace ownership, they just assume if you ever had a particular firearm in your name, you currently own it still. Seems pretty archaic to me. GUNS ARE BAD

I kinda read the inheritance info as…

If I kill you or find you dead on the street and take your gun for myself I need to use that option…. right?